Hi,
Peranders with all due respect, would you kindly like to clear the air as to why you have been investigating the wiki page, would like to know if you are in support of this group buy or not?
Thanks
Raja
Peranders with all due respect, would you kindly like to clear the air as to why you have been investigating the wiki page, would like to know if you are in support of this group buy or not?
Thanks
Raja
Re: PayPal
Hi Jon,
actually I have internet banking and have looked at the debit by paypal, however the code I have against that debit is not a four digit code as suggested by paypal, the transaction has around 9 digits with hyphens seperating groups of them. I tried to enter some of these but after trying and failing a couple of times was given a warning by the paypal site that if I tried with the wrong number again I would not be able to register the account at all. So I had to refrain, in any case one of the UK guys has kinda offered to take the funds in my place provisionally so I'm waiting for an ok from him.......
Thanks
Raja
jonclancy said:
Hi Jon,
actually I have internet banking and have looked at the debit by paypal, however the code I have against that debit is not a four digit code as suggested by paypal, the transaction has around 9 digits with hyphens seperating groups of them. I tried to enter some of these but after trying and failing a couple of times was given a warning by the paypal site that if I tried with the wrong number again I would not be able to register the account at all. So I had to refrain, in any case one of the UK guys has kinda offered to take the funds in my place provisionally so I'm waiting for an ok from him.......
Thanks
Raja
HI,
I have been in touch with Andy again by email, and he does have a paypal account, to which the funds can be transferred directly, so in essence if coloumb or Mark wish to collect the money you can send it to Andy directly without the need for sending it to me first.
One thing we need to bear in mind first though is that Andy gets charged 3.4% for using this, so we'll have to reflect that in the board prices.
I provide here a link so that you can check prices for shipping abroad,
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400036&mediaId=400347
bear in mind though that if either myself or mark are shipping the items abroad we'll probably insist on using the signed for option that royal mail provides, this costs an extra £3.30 on top of the usual shipping price. I don't really want to be involved in problems, and I'm already doing this reluctantly, the last thing I want is being accused of missing boards etc, these types of situations aren't to my liking at all. As an option to the end reciever insurance of the contents can also be arranged.
If it turns out that a number of shipments have to be made then I'll probably split the work with Mark (assuming he agrees to this of course).
Packaging is another issue, I don't have any of my own and welcome responses and suggestions from Uk based members who have experience in this field.
I do work for business post as a courier myself and deal with fed-ex shipments from abroad, they are expensive though and I don't think the pricing would agree with the 'keep it reasonably cheap spirit' of many diyers. The contract is held by Business post and as such without pulling a lot of strings I'm not open for discounts, secondly work is work, and favours always come with their price from the respective giver, this is a situation I could do without......
At a stretch maiking a single large shipment to the area with the most orders (probably Canada or America) could be beneficial, as a one off I could see if my work colleagues could do me a favour with pricing to one of these regions. Fed-ex specialise in shipments to the Americas, and if the price is good this will suit me very well. And as it is only one shipment I wouldn't have to ask too hard.......
Fed-ex also have good packaging which I could use for such a shipment, so this is worth consideration, there will be a requiremnt for invoices, which I wil have to provide, otherwise the goods will not fly. I am inclined to be honest as to the contents and their respective values, but will state on the invoice that the shipment is non-profit and not for re-sale.
I welcome the members responses to the above.....
Thanks
Raja
I have been in touch with Andy again by email, and he does have a paypal account, to which the funds can be transferred directly, so in essence if coloumb or Mark wish to collect the money you can send it to Andy directly without the need for sending it to me first.
One thing we need to bear in mind first though is that Andy gets charged 3.4% for using this, so we'll have to reflect that in the board prices.
I provide here a link so that you can check prices for shipping abroad,
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400036&mediaId=400347
bear in mind though that if either myself or mark are shipping the items abroad we'll probably insist on using the signed for option that royal mail provides, this costs an extra £3.30 on top of the usual shipping price. I don't really want to be involved in problems, and I'm already doing this reluctantly, the last thing I want is being accused of missing boards etc, these types of situations aren't to my liking at all. As an option to the end reciever insurance of the contents can also be arranged.
If it turns out that a number of shipments have to be made then I'll probably split the work with Mark (assuming he agrees to this of course).
Packaging is another issue, I don't have any of my own and welcome responses and suggestions from Uk based members who have experience in this field.
I do work for business post as a courier myself and deal with fed-ex shipments from abroad, they are expensive though and I don't think the pricing would agree with the 'keep it reasonably cheap spirit' of many diyers. The contract is held by Business post and as such without pulling a lot of strings I'm not open for discounts, secondly work is work, and favours always come with their price from the respective giver, this is a situation I could do without......
At a stretch maiking a single large shipment to the area with the most orders (probably Canada or America) could be beneficial, as a one off I could see if my work colleagues could do me a favour with pricing to one of these regions. Fed-ex specialise in shipments to the Americas, and if the price is good this will suit me very well. And as it is only one shipment I wouldn't have to ask too hard.......
Fed-ex also have good packaging which I could use for such a shipment, so this is worth consideration, there will be a requiremnt for invoices, which I wil have to provide, otherwise the goods will not fly. I am inclined to be honest as to the contents and their respective values, but will state on the invoice that the shipment is non-profit and not for re-sale.
I welcome the members responses to the above.....
Thanks
Raja
Raja
I think at this point we should give the wiki order count time to grow (as it currently stands with 74 of the + version the cost for these would be £390.72 this is more than the cost of 100 @ £3.76 each) once we have in excess of a hundred of each required then we will have more of an idea regarding the shipping location requirements.
This is the reason that I have not added my order to the wiki yet as I will order a few more than I require lifting it over the 100 if this becomes necessary.
Everyone will understand we will have to add paypall fees, shipping and packing costs to the orders with a small % mark-up to leave contingency funds (if the contingency fund is left unaccounted for then we could donate it to ALW baby fund or the diyaudio server maintenance fund) .
Members comments / responses please.
I think at this point we should give the wiki order count time to grow (as it currently stands with 74 of the + version the cost for these would be £390.72 this is more than the cost of 100 @ £3.76 each) once we have in excess of a hundred of each required then we will have more of an idea regarding the shipping location requirements.
This is the reason that I have not added my order to the wiki yet as I will order a few more than I require lifting it over the 100 if this becomes necessary.
Everyone will understand we will have to add paypall fees, shipping and packing costs to the orders with a small % mark-up to leave contingency funds (if the contingency fund is left unaccounted for then we could donate it to ALW baby fund or the diyaudio server maintenance fund) .
Members comments / responses please.
I volunteer!
I volunteer! I am in Washington DC and have access to special rate form FedEx and UPS using my company. I would be happy to forward the shipment to US members (I would be happy to do this for up to 10 people) however the packaging is another question. Canada is a bit of a problem since I have to enclose an invoice for overseas shipment.
Regards
Amir
I volunteer! I am in Washington DC and have access to special rate form FedEx and UPS using my company. I would be happy to forward the shipment to US members (I would be happy to do this for up to 10 people) however the packaging is another question. Canada is a bit of a problem since I have to enclose an invoice for overseas shipment.
Regards
Amir
Letting it grow
If the required quantities are not exactly 50 or 100 off's I can get revised quote's for different quantities; for example I can get a price break at 75-off which will be somewhere between the two prices already quoted.
If it grows beyond 100 off, I'm not sure what the next breakpoint will be, but I will investigate at the time - I'll try and keep an eye on things here, between nappies (diapers) etc 😉
Andy.
If the required quantities are not exactly 50 or 100 off's I can get revised quote's for different quantities; for example I can get a price break at 75-off which will be somewhere between the two prices already quoted.
If it grows beyond 100 off, I'm not sure what the next breakpoint will be, but I will investigate at the time - I'll try and keep an eye on things here, between nappies (diapers) etc 😉
Andy.
I have to agree with mike stones
Let go for the 100@ £3.76 each!! or maybe improved?
Give Andy the volume so that indirectly its gonna be
good for him for the future towards the PCB side.
Then adding quantities would be very easy... heh
Would love to see Andy's continous work carries on..REGG ourselves!
Let go for the 100@ £3.76 each!! or maybe improved?
Give Andy the volume so that indirectly its gonna be
good for him for the future towards the PCB side.
Then adding quantities would be very easy... heh
Would love to see Andy's continous work carries on..REGG ourselves!
Andy,
If you feel that the Rubycon ZA's kit is an option at its current request level (assuming that you can find the time between nappies and screams) could you please provide a price for the kit.
Thanks in anticipation.
If you feel that the Rubycon ZA's kit is an option at its current request level (assuming that you can find the time between nappies and screams) could you please provide a price for the kit.
Thanks in anticipation.
What does "100off" mean?
I _think_ I have signed up for 4 positive 4 negative boards the caps for them and the SMD 825 pre-soldered...Is that so?
I _think_ I have signed up for 4 positive 4 negative boards the caps for them and the SMD 825 pre-soldered...Is that so?
grataku said:
RE: 100off I assume that you are referring to the price / quantity ratio (100off = the price that ALW can obtain 100 units of the same version for (example 100 of the +ve version)
Yes you have signed up for what you think you have signed up for.
So far it is only me in the uk that has offered help with fitting the SMT chips (AD825 for the other than 5 volt version and AD817 for the 5 volt version) the pcb has footprints for both SMT and DILL so if you can get hold of dill versions you will not need my assistance. (If I do end up with the task of fitting chips, I will send them out in antistatic packing a charge will be applied for the task (thinking about £0.40 per unit bearing in mind that I have to purchase antistatic bags, members let me know if you feel this is fair) and we do not have a group source for the chip purchase so you would have to send me them.
Alternatively find a dead pcb with some SO outline chips on it and have a go the lead pitch of these chips is about 1.4mm (0.0550” to you old fashion dudes Ha).
Suggested tools / method for the SMT novice:
Tools.
1. Magnifying glass (if you are worried but at this pitch it is fairly easy to see, don’t do it in a dark room).
2. Tweezers (will help you hold the part while you line it up and tack the first leg. Yes you can live without these as well)
3. Purchase a fine core solder (try not to use the big stuff leftover from your gas man) Desolder braid is very useful for removing excess solder, and a flux pen will help you retouch your joints.
4. If you are going shopping to get the parts above get some pcb cleaner while you are at it (its got to look good).
Method.
1. Place the substrate (pcb) onto a flat surface (preferably one that is not to slippery and does not generate static, antistatic mats are the best option) Place the chip onto the substrate and line the lead’s up to the pins (observe orientation).
2. Apply solder to one of the leads / pads (heat them both at the same time for best results) check for component to substrate alignment, reheat pad and adjust component if necessary (DO NOT FORCE THE COMPONENT ONCE ONE OF THE LEGS HAS BEEN SOLDERED OR YOU WILL RIP THE PAD OFF THE SUBSTRATE).
3. Solder the remaining leads / pads (if you have applied excessive solder on any of the pads use the desolder braid to remove by placing the braid between the iron and the joint (applying some solder to the iron prior to placing it on the braid will assist the heat transfer from the iron to the braid).
4. Inspect you work (if shorts are found refer to 3. above, if you have spiky joints and don’t like the look apply some flux and reheat (you can usually remove shorts by applying flux and dragging out excessive solder but this does require some experience). If you have insufficient solder on your joints apply some more solder (flux it first if you are inexperienced).
If you ever get going on the finer pitch stuff (fine core solder really helps) locate it as above (you may end up shorting out a few pins but don’t worry at this stage) apply flux around all the pads/ leads and run the iron whilst applying solder across the leads (don’t force the iron let it float or you will bend leads / dislodge pads, imagine that it is one long lead rather than a row of leads)
If you have the nack then you will of soldered it with no shorts dry joints first pass, if you haven’t then you are only mortal (it does come with practice). Assuming that at this point you don’t have a solid block of solder across the leads, if you have remove some as instruction 3. above. Apply more flux and run the iron across the pads again (watch it drag the solder across to the last pads leaving the fist section of leads with well soldered joints) Again if you are getting good at this all joints will be good now, however if you still have a few pins shorted (towards the end of your run usually) then remove excess again, reflux and run along the leads again (yes do start from one end of the run and finish at the other regardless of how good the first few joints are you will not bother them provided you have added sufficient flux).
You can run across them as many times as is necessary to get good joints, as long as you keep the iron moving it will not overheat any pins.
Disclaimer: the above assumes that you have a reasonable soldering iron with a tip that narrows to a point (or the specialised wedges / blades that you can obtain. Do a search for metcal soldering / rework stations for examples).
Hope that the time this took to type helps someone ?
For further info regarding andys pcb see Post #16 of this thread.
Here's some advice I've posted in the past...
Tips for soldering SMD's
Here's some tips that may be of use to you guys re: SMD soldering.
Soldering SMD is a bit like designing audio - what one thinks will work and has been told through years of education and experience is often wrong, so here's Andy's top tips for S&MD success: -
1. Buy a flux rework wand
These are a large felt tip pen, filled with rework flux - get a no-clean one for less mess
2. Don't use tiny soldering iron tips
Trying to solder each pin of an SOIC individually is a waste of time, and very fiddly, the technique to use means use of a surprisingly large soldering iron bit, preferably a 'horses hoof' shaped one of the sort you'd use for ordinary precision leaded soldering. Something about 3-4mm wide is perfect.
3. Use the 'drag soldering' technique
No, not dressing up in your wife's clothes (although if you feel comfortable, then who am I to argue...) but a technique where we throw out the first golden rule of soldering, i.e. that of applying solder to the joint, not the soldering iron.
Well, with SMD that's not the way to do it, so here's a better way, that sounds like a recipe for disaster, but once mastered will have you fitting SOIC's quicker than the time it takes to find your cutters to clip the legs on a standard DIP package
The reason for golden rule no.1 is that the flux evaporates / burns off once the solder is applied to the iron. Being the intelligent and thoughtful bunch that all DIY.com'ers are, you will have heeded no.1 above and bought a flux wand.
Here's the secret, please listen carefully, I will repeat this only once ...
1. Apply flux to land pattern of PCB.
2. Place device accurately on pads, and check the orientation
3. Check the device orientation again
4. Hold the device on the pcb using a suitable tool, by applying pressure from the top (tweezers, screwdriver, all work well).
5. Dab some more flux on the legs of one side of the device, make sure you don't move it - if you do, realign it.
6. Take your iron in your free hand, apply a nice dollop of solder to the tip.
7. Apply the iron to the first leg you've applied flux to and drag the tip along one side, spending about 0.5s per leg, until you reach the end. Don't worry about shorts, poor joints or anything at this phase
8. Repeat 5, 6 and 7 on the other side of the device.
9. Have a good look, you will have either: -
a. Perfectly soldered joints down both sides
b. Shorts between some legs
c. Unsoldered legs
d. A mixture of b and c
10. If you have b / c, then simply apply more flux to the offending side of the IC, and drag a clean iron tip along the entire side as before - the iron will now pick up excess solder and you should get perfectly soldered joints, indistinguishable from those done by a production reflow method.
If any joints need a bit more solder, repeat 10, but add a small dab of solder to the iron first.
It sounds scary and takes a few tries to get right, but works really well, with a bit of practice you'll get the hang of it, and it's real quick and reliable to do.
Andy.
Tips for soldering SMD's
Here's some tips that may be of use to you guys re: SMD soldering.
Soldering SMD is a bit like designing audio - what one thinks will work and has been told through years of education and experience is often wrong, so here's Andy's top tips for S&MD success: -
1. Buy a flux rework wand
These are a large felt tip pen, filled with rework flux - get a no-clean one for less mess
2. Don't use tiny soldering iron tips
Trying to solder each pin of an SOIC individually is a waste of time, and very fiddly, the technique to use means use of a surprisingly large soldering iron bit, preferably a 'horses hoof' shaped one of the sort you'd use for ordinary precision leaded soldering. Something about 3-4mm wide is perfect.
3. Use the 'drag soldering' technique
No, not dressing up in your wife's clothes (although if you feel comfortable, then who am I to argue...) but a technique where we throw out the first golden rule of soldering, i.e. that of applying solder to the joint, not the soldering iron.
Well, with SMD that's not the way to do it, so here's a better way, that sounds like a recipe for disaster, but once mastered will have you fitting SOIC's quicker than the time it takes to find your cutters to clip the legs on a standard DIP package
The reason for golden rule no.1 is that the flux evaporates / burns off once the solder is applied to the iron. Being the intelligent and thoughtful bunch that all DIY.com'ers are, you will have heeded no.1 above and bought a flux wand.
Here's the secret, please listen carefully, I will repeat this only once ...
1. Apply flux to land pattern of PCB.
2. Place device accurately on pads, and check the orientation
3. Check the device orientation again
4. Hold the device on the pcb using a suitable tool, by applying pressure from the top (tweezers, screwdriver, all work well).
5. Dab some more flux on the legs of one side of the device, make sure you don't move it - if you do, realign it.
6. Take your iron in your free hand, apply a nice dollop of solder to the tip.
7. Apply the iron to the first leg you've applied flux to and drag the tip along one side, spending about 0.5s per leg, until you reach the end. Don't worry about shorts, poor joints or anything at this phase
8. Repeat 5, 6 and 7 on the other side of the device.
9. Have a good look, you will have either: -
a. Perfectly soldered joints down both sides
b. Shorts between some legs
c. Unsoldered legs
d. A mixture of b and c
10. If you have b / c, then simply apply more flux to the offending side of the IC, and drag a clean iron tip along the entire side as before - the iron will now pick up excess solder and you should get perfectly soldered joints, indistinguishable from those done by a production reflow method.
If any joints need a bit more solder, repeat 10, but add a small dab of solder to the iron first.
It sounds scary and takes a few tries to get right, but works really well, with a bit of practice you'll get the hang of it, and it's real quick and reliable to do.
Andy.
Well there you have it folk’s two sets of instructions on how to solder SMT. (D’oh wish that you have got in there sooner and saved me the effort andy)
Having trained many people over the years I would recommend starting with the soldering of SO type devices with the pin at a time method until you gain the confidence (initially shorting pins seems to be ok for people with no electronic / electrical understanding but tends to bother people with an understanding (shorting pins is doing something that you have spent years avoiding). However for those with the confidence or a pitch of less than 1.4mm follow the second part of mine “fine pitch” or follow andy’s to me his is clearer to follow and is also quite amusing.
Andy did you have chance to look at the option of supplying the Rubycon ZA's kit?
Having trained many people over the years I would recommend starting with the soldering of SO type devices with the pin at a time method until you gain the confidence (initially shorting pins seems to be ok for people with no electronic / electrical understanding but tends to bother people with an understanding (shorting pins is doing something that you have spent years avoiding). However for those with the confidence or a pitch of less than 1.4mm follow the second part of mine “fine pitch” or follow andy’s to me his is clearer to follow and is also quite amusing.
Andy did you have chance to look at the option of supplying the Rubycon ZA's kit?
Andy, I see that you need to use an AD817 opamp for 5V operation. Is it possible to configure the regulator for 3.3V operation? I require 3.3V for my ASRC Dac, along with 5V and 15V.
Thanks,
Ron
Thanks,
Ron
I thought the smd would be put on by machine. I can only thrust a machine (and maybe ALW) to do a better job than I would with that. 😉
I will remove that option from my order.
I will remove that option from my order.
grataku said:
Having 10+ years as an electronics manufacturing engineer specialising in SMT under my belt, I find that remark quite offensive.
mark stones said:
Yes i was going to spend 300 pound on a stencil, 300 pound on tooling and setup costs to do 20 pcb's (i have spat my dumy out i hope you are pleased)
Come on dude, take a chill-pill. I used a "😉" for god's sake.
I thought ALW was all setup to do that. I don't want somebody to have to do that by hand for me.
I thought ALW was all setup to do that. I don't want somebody to have to do that by hand for me.
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