Hello
I have read many threads here but it's nearly impossible
to step through 380 pages of some threads to find sometimes luckyly partial infos about hooking a standard PC TFT Monitor
on a OHP.
Is it possible to collect some infos (Mini FAQ) in one thread
together. And for the DIY way it's perharps good not to
think about HDTV here.
I will try to resume what i've learned until now here.
Please complement and add your ideas / informations.
As far as i know the years of the 14" LCD Flat Panels
are gone. Unfortunately this size fits exactly too most
every OHP's. Nowadays we only get easy new 15" TFT's
I found a few 14" Displays on Ebay.
( example Nokia 400Xa, which was introduced in 1998 )
With those panels we could get the full resolution (1024x768)
.. but is this 5 year old stuff still state of the art ???
On the other side it would be possible to take a new 15" which
will not fit on the OHP, so full resolution isn't possible without
bigger fresnel and other OHP modifications.
Not everyone has a fresnal manufactor nearby and the tools
to modify his OHP. Also lenses are not common stuff.
Common stuff is a standard TFT at the next electronic store.
So, what when "really satisfied" with 800x600 resolution.
Is a modern Panel not in anyway better than a 14" panel
from 1998 if still projecting ONLY 800x600
(but now with 16,7 Mio Colors)
I think about response times, the ability too let more light
through , colours and compatibility to modern Operating
Systems , On Screen Display, more stored User Settings
and last but not least support
(Example - datasheets on brand new products are always online )
Perharps an old panel only lets 10-15% light
through so i need indeed a Metall Halide Setup.
But what if i have a brandnew TFT technology which is
more transmissive. Could it it be that a 4000-6000 Lumen
OHP is good enough for a great job in a moderate
dimmed room.
I have a Geha OHP with 6000 Lumen (Kondensor Lense)
and the lamps are 9$ Longlife 300h. That's a real DIY price , or ?
Correct me if i'm totally wrong but a i cannot
believe that a 10 year old Spectra will perform better
then a brand new Sampo PD70FA16 or Yakumo 15" Monitor
on the same light source.
If you take the 9" Diagonal from the Spectra as a base
and calculate this too a 800x600 resolution from any 15"
TFT you get nearly the same size like the Spectra
(diagonal , and so projected at the wall )
But you have a few pixels more ( 160x120 ) with more colors
and better refresh times.
Shouldn't that be enough for moderate home cinema,
if many Spectra users are still happy with their devices
and 640x480 resolution on a 80" screen.
(Okay i'm not because damaged 🙂))
I'm very interested in all infos to do such a conversion.
But i have some questions where i didn't found the answers here
Okay, it's hard to say which modell can be adapted.
I could read somewhere that nearly every TFT can do the job
but sometimes it's harder too get the backlight away and
the pcb's out of place. (ribbon cables)
So a list would be great which includes the modify grade.
1. Easy
2. Not very difficult
3. Soldering required
4. Forget It, you're crazy
Also I didn't know if any modern TFT will do a 800x600
job "CLEAN" , (without scaling) in a "letterboxed" style in a 1024x768 window. Hope you understand what i mean 🙂)))
(i need it black framed)
If any monitor wouldn't behave so and will upscale this 800x600 to 1024x768 i would make a big hint in the compatibilty list.
"Don't use him on a standard OHP"
Response Time.
I read often here 30ms would be okay. Is this only the
rise time ??. Some manufactors , like Sampo, say 10ms.
But if you look deeper in the manuals you see, that's
10ms rise + 25ms fall. So the reaction time is 35ms.
Did that mean that i cannot take this monitor for such
a projection job ??
The TFT's with REAL 25ms are the more expensive one's
So what's exactly the point too take care here ?
Maximum Response Time for good video = XX.ms
So last for today , i will list a few TFT models i have found
and perharps someone knows something about them.
Sampo PD70-FA16 (my favourite)
Yakuma TFT 15
LiteOn 150AT
Hyundai L50A
Neovo F-15
Iiyama BX3814UT
best regards
Rainer
I have read many threads here but it's nearly impossible
to step through 380 pages of some threads to find sometimes luckyly partial infos about hooking a standard PC TFT Monitor
on a OHP.
Is it possible to collect some infos (Mini FAQ) in one thread
together. And for the DIY way it's perharps good not to
think about HDTV here.
I will try to resume what i've learned until now here.
Please complement and add your ideas / informations.
As far as i know the years of the 14" LCD Flat Panels
are gone. Unfortunately this size fits exactly too most
every OHP's. Nowadays we only get easy new 15" TFT's
I found a few 14" Displays on Ebay.
( example Nokia 400Xa, which was introduced in 1998 )
With those panels we could get the full resolution (1024x768)
.. but is this 5 year old stuff still state of the art ???
On the other side it would be possible to take a new 15" which
will not fit on the OHP, so full resolution isn't possible without
bigger fresnel and other OHP modifications.
Not everyone has a fresnal manufactor nearby and the tools
to modify his OHP. Also lenses are not common stuff.
Common stuff is a standard TFT at the next electronic store.
So, what when "really satisfied" with 800x600 resolution.
Is a modern Panel not in anyway better than a 14" panel
from 1998 if still projecting ONLY 800x600
(but now with 16,7 Mio Colors)
I think about response times, the ability too let more light
through , colours and compatibility to modern Operating
Systems , On Screen Display, more stored User Settings
and last but not least support
(Example - datasheets on brand new products are always online )
Perharps an old panel only lets 10-15% light
through so i need indeed a Metall Halide Setup.
But what if i have a brandnew TFT technology which is
more transmissive. Could it it be that a 4000-6000 Lumen
OHP is good enough for a great job in a moderate
dimmed room.
I have a Geha OHP with 6000 Lumen (Kondensor Lense)
and the lamps are 9$ Longlife 300h. That's a real DIY price , or ?
Correct me if i'm totally wrong but a i cannot
believe that a 10 year old Spectra will perform better
then a brand new Sampo PD70FA16 or Yakumo 15" Monitor
on the same light source.
If you take the 9" Diagonal from the Spectra as a base
and calculate this too a 800x600 resolution from any 15"
TFT you get nearly the same size like the Spectra
(diagonal , and so projected at the wall )
But you have a few pixels more ( 160x120 ) with more colors
and better refresh times.
Shouldn't that be enough for moderate home cinema,
if many Spectra users are still happy with their devices
and 640x480 resolution on a 80" screen.
(Okay i'm not because damaged 🙂))
I'm very interested in all infos to do such a conversion.
But i have some questions where i didn't found the answers here
Okay, it's hard to say which modell can be adapted.
I could read somewhere that nearly every TFT can do the job
but sometimes it's harder too get the backlight away and
the pcb's out of place. (ribbon cables)
So a list would be great which includes the modify grade.
1. Easy
2. Not very difficult
3. Soldering required
4. Forget It, you're crazy
Also I didn't know if any modern TFT will do a 800x600
job "CLEAN" , (without scaling) in a "letterboxed" style in a 1024x768 window. Hope you understand what i mean 🙂)))
(i need it black framed)
If any monitor wouldn't behave so and will upscale this 800x600 to 1024x768 i would make a big hint in the compatibilty list.
"Don't use him on a standard OHP"
Response Time.
I read often here 30ms would be okay. Is this only the
rise time ??. Some manufactors , like Sampo, say 10ms.
But if you look deeper in the manuals you see, that's
10ms rise + 25ms fall. So the reaction time is 35ms.
Did that mean that i cannot take this monitor for such
a projection job ??
The TFT's with REAL 25ms are the more expensive one's
So what's exactly the point too take care here ?
Maximum Response Time for good video = XX.ms
So last for today , i will list a few TFT models i have found
and perharps someone knows something about them.
Sampo PD70-FA16 (my favourite)
Yakuma TFT 15
LiteOn 150AT
Hyundai L50A
Neovo F-15
Iiyama BX3814UT
best regards
Rainer
My reasoning was the same. I'm gambling that new tft's are brighter because of better panels, not better lighting.
Add to that the fact that all (or at least all that I've seen) 'old' tft's are too slow for video projection.
So I've bought me a new Benq (=Acer) FP557 15". It has 30ms (22+8) response time, 350:1 contrast and 250cd brightness. I'm about to find out how hard it is to modify for ohp usage 🙂
Add to that the fact that all (or at least all that I've seen) 'old' tft's are too slow for video projection.
So I've bought me a new Benq (=Acer) FP557 15". It has 30ms (22+8) response time, 350:1 contrast and 250cd brightness. I'm about to find out how hard it is to modify for ohp usage 🙂
Lighting
Exact what i thought.
Every year the TFT's Monitors have a few Candelars more
on the same space.
But i think the Developers at Sharp, LG, Phillips and
other Panel manufactors did this hard job and not
"OSRAM superbulb technology enterprises"
I didn't speak about leds. That's what a company like
Osram is developing now with major improvements....
Perharps companies like 3M with some kind of special film
or other reflector technnologies have a slight increase but
But Bulb is Bulb
And bulb is heat.
And heat is always against lifetime
Exact what i thought.
Every year the TFT's Monitors have a few Candelars more
on the same space.
But i think the Developers at Sharp, LG, Phillips and
other Panel manufactors did this hard job and not
"OSRAM superbulb technology enterprises"
I didn't speak about leds. That's what a company like
Osram is developing now with major improvements....
Perharps companies like 3M with some kind of special film
or other reflector technnologies have a slight increase but
But Bulb is Bulb
And bulb is heat.
And heat is always against lifetime
I have been considering this LCD for a little while
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/upsource/789227.html
I am most interested because of this
http://www.pcstats.com/articleimages/samsung152T_bot.jpg
maybe it has a longer cable on it.
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/upsource/789227.html
I am most interested because of this
http://www.pcstats.com/articleimages/samsung152T_bot.jpg
maybe it has a longer cable on it.
Enlightenment please ?
Hi,
I noticed this post about tft panels and OHP? Sorry for such a basic newbe question...😕 But, are you talking about combining an OHP and a tft display?
ck
Hi,
I noticed this post about tft panels and OHP? Sorry for such a basic newbe question...😕 But, are you talking about combining an OHP and a tft display?
ck
Enligthed
If you don't hesitate to buy a brand new TFT only to
tear him apart , loosing your 3 years warranty
also have the risk to damage it, while modding
then you are here at the right thread 🙂)
But if you are carefully and make a new enclosure
for the TFT panel which prevents thousands of moving
to the ribbons and/or flat cables i think it can be done.
Look into threads "Step into the Light" or
follow this link where the member MBayAQ does a great job.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9146
Someone else wrote that the chances that you didn't hurt
your panel and ribbons are about 50% and no one can
guarantee that you will not damage it.
So this thread is for the other 50% which are 99% sure
to do this without damaging.
Be carefull, no hurry and you can win. Perharps you can get/find an old damaged notebook or something else with a backlite LCD
to play with before you tear apart your new brand TFT.
( to get handy with flat cables , ribbons and polarizing films )
Warranty:
I had the warranty to bid on a working Nview Spectra C on Ebay USA and payd 250$ and got a bunch of scrap.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10411
If i would have found related infos to TFT OHP swaps before,
i had better spent my money here.
The great question is
Which models are prefered for this job and are available
there where you live.
Build your own OHP Panel with a wood (whatelse) enclosure but
with newest technology. Perharps you can overcome the Metal
Halide conversions on this way a little bit. (only a assumption )
If you want to look football, outside, at a sunny day you will
have to go the Metall Halide way anyway ......
The idea is for me only to project 800x600 with a 1024x768
panel. But i don't know if it's usual that some buildin electronics
will scale up to the whole screen.
Such a panel i cannot take for this approach.
So which panel does it with a "black frame" around
a 800 x 600 non scaled picture ?????
( then, you need not to mod your OHP )
Here are my favourite TFT's in the moment.
They are all , Fast and not the expensive ones.
Hyundai LA50A - http://www.hyundaiq.de/produkte/tft/l50a.htm
- 20 ms
- ultra thin
Sampo PD70-FA16
but will they do the wanted frame ??
best regards
Rainer
If you don't hesitate to buy a brand new TFT only to
tear him apart , loosing your 3 years warranty
also have the risk to damage it, while modding
then you are here at the right thread 🙂)
But if you are carefully and make a new enclosure
for the TFT panel which prevents thousands of moving
to the ribbons and/or flat cables i think it can be done.
Look into threads "Step into the Light" or
follow this link where the member MBayAQ does a great job.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9146
Someone else wrote that the chances that you didn't hurt
your panel and ribbons are about 50% and no one can
guarantee that you will not damage it.
So this thread is for the other 50% which are 99% sure
to do this without damaging.
Be carefull, no hurry and you can win. Perharps you can get/find an old damaged notebook or something else with a backlite LCD
to play with before you tear apart your new brand TFT.
( to get handy with flat cables , ribbons and polarizing films )
Warranty:
I had the warranty to bid on a working Nview Spectra C on Ebay USA and payd 250$ and got a bunch of scrap.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10411
If i would have found related infos to TFT OHP swaps before,
i had better spent my money here.
The great question is
Which models are prefered for this job and are available
there where you live.
Build your own OHP Panel with a wood (whatelse) enclosure but
with newest technology. Perharps you can overcome the Metal
Halide conversions on this way a little bit. (only a assumption )
If you want to look football, outside, at a sunny day you will
have to go the Metall Halide way anyway ......
The idea is for me only to project 800x600 with a 1024x768
panel. But i don't know if it's usual that some buildin electronics
will scale up to the whole screen.
Such a panel i cannot take for this approach.
So which panel does it with a "black frame" around
a 800 x 600 non scaled picture ?????
( then, you need not to mod your OHP )
Here are my favourite TFT's in the moment.
They are all , Fast and not the expensive ones.
Hyundai LA50A - http://www.hyundaiq.de/produkte/tft/l50a.htm
- 20 ms
- ultra thin
Sampo PD70-FA16
but will they do the wanted frame ??
best regards
Rainer
I've dismantled my Benq FP557 today, no connection between the 2 pcb's (except ground) 🙂
The panel is a LG.PHILIPS LM150X07.
I dont know yet if the panel survived the operation, but everything looks ok.
The panel is a LG.PHILIPS LM150X07.
I dont know yet if the panel survived the operation, but everything looks ok.
Benq F557
Ahh, great, first results.
But we must be exact 🙂))
Is it a LM150X07 with a suffix A4 or suffix B4.
The A4 is a 26244 color type
and
The B4 is a 16,7 Mio color type with "LVDS" Interface !!!!!
I think it's a B4 - Please take a look
The good news about LVDS is the following.
LVDS is a HighSpeed Serial Bus. It's designed to
get the "Bits" over longer distance with "fewer" cables.
So I swear you can easily adapt a few centimeters more
to that cable without getting problems.
( pairwise, perharps drilled )
What distance exact can be reached is unimportant in the moment. But 50cm - 80cm i think is no problem.
So you can get the whole electronic away incl power supply
if you want and have time to do this.
Compare LVDS a bit with Serial ATA.
If anyone has installed a new harddisk in an old Harddisk
Changing Frame without these 80pin ATA cables
then you get problems meanwhile.
The main reason is "higher speed signals"
LVDS as Serial ATA overcome this problem with matching transmitter and receiver circuits which are specialized in
( Parallel - Seriell ) -> High Speed ,
Serial Transmission -> ( Seriell Parallel ) conversion.
So with such an interface you have about max 10-15 cables
effective. ( they are often doubled )
So, think about the beginning of this thread where i sayd
that for actual devices it's no problem to get all the infos.
Here are the datasheets for the Benq F557 Panel
B-Type with 16,7 Mio colors and LVDS.
http://www.esskabel.de/Datenblaetter/LCD-Specs/LG/LM150X07.pdf
A-Type 262200 colors with standard TTL Interface.
http://www.esskabel.de/Datenblaetter/LCD-Specs/LG/LM150X07-A4M1.pdf
cheers
Rainer
Ahh, great, first results.
But we must be exact 🙂))
Is it a LM150X07 with a suffix A4 or suffix B4.
The A4 is a 26244 color type
and
The B4 is a 16,7 Mio color type with "LVDS" Interface !!!!!
I think it's a B4 - Please take a look
The good news about LVDS is the following.
LVDS is a HighSpeed Serial Bus. It's designed to
get the "Bits" over longer distance with "fewer" cables.
So I swear you can easily adapt a few centimeters more
to that cable without getting problems.
( pairwise, perharps drilled )
What distance exact can be reached is unimportant in the moment. But 50cm - 80cm i think is no problem.
So you can get the whole electronic away incl power supply
if you want and have time to do this.
Compare LVDS a bit with Serial ATA.
If anyone has installed a new harddisk in an old Harddisk
Changing Frame without these 80pin ATA cables
then you get problems meanwhile.
The main reason is "higher speed signals"
LVDS as Serial ATA overcome this problem with matching transmitter and receiver circuits which are specialized in
( Parallel - Seriell ) -> High Speed ,
Serial Transmission -> ( Seriell Parallel ) conversion.
So with such an interface you have about max 10-15 cables
effective. ( they are often doubled )
So, think about the beginning of this thread where i sayd
that for actual devices it's no problem to get all the infos.
Here are the datasheets for the Benq F557 Panel
B-Type with 16,7 Mio colors and LVDS.
http://www.esskabel.de/Datenblaetter/LCD-Specs/LG/LM150X07.pdf
A-Type 262200 colors with standard TTL Interface.
http://www.esskabel.de/Datenblaetter/LCD-Specs/LG/LM150X07-A4M1.pdf
cheers
Rainer
Its the A4!
I cant see that it only has 262k colors though, I'll have to try watching a dvd when I'm finished mounting it on the OHP (..again, I actually managed to get it to project upside down lol)
I cant see that it only has 262k colors though, I'll have to try watching a dvd when I'm finished mounting it on the OHP (..again, I actually managed to get it to project upside down lol)
Enlighted
Okay, now i know that's not a common feature of
all new TFT modells to do this black borders
around a small 800x600 picture.
If someone would have told me that i hadn't to ask
in different threads so many times.
Thanx a lot rapsac
Okay, now i know that's not a common feature of
all new TFT modells to do this black borders
around a small 800x600 picture.
If someone would have told me that i hadn't to ask
in different threads so many times.
Thanx a lot rapsac
One of my suppliers quotes for LVDS cables in the following lengths....60cm...100cm...300cm. No indication if this is dependant on LCD panel or controller.
zardoz
zardoz
The NEC thread is 'polluted' with notebook displays and controllers, this is 15" stand alone TFT's only. (+ good notebook displays are rare, controllers for them are from the iron age, and the combination is WAY too expensive/inflexible).
Just a quick summary of my progress:
I've rotated my FP557 display so it doesn't project upside down anymore 🙂
The picture I get now is a little too dark (I'm only using a 70W MH bulb). But it is great to watch movies on a 2.5m screen. I'm sure 150W MH will be more than sufficient.
(a little off-topic: a 150W MH R7s bulb doesn't fit in the 3M 9550, if you are going that way use the G12 socket bulb!)
Just a quick summary of my progress:
I've rotated my FP557 display so it doesn't project upside down anymore 🙂
The picture I get now is a little too dark (I'm only using a 70W MH bulb). But it is great to watch movies on a 2.5m screen. I'm sure 150W MH will be more than sufficient.
(a little off-topic: a 150W MH R7s bulb doesn't fit in the 3M 9550, if you are going that way use the G12 socket bulb!)
Need OHP Optics KnowHow for 15" Panel
One of the main reasons why i until now not go for a Hyundai LA50 " to have another 15" TFT teared for this thread "
is the following.
At the beginning i want to do it with a OHP Panel
and i have calculated and purchased (example screen)
everything with a 9" or 10,4" panel in mind.
I have no other chance in my room. basta !
I would go through all the Bigger Fresnel, Lightning Horror
if i could get my picure smaller.
I need 3.4 m to get a screen full which is 1.8m wide
or 90" diagonal.
But this is only possible with a smaller panel.
A 15" will be too big. The new ones also cannot throw
800x600 with borders (thanx rapsac)
So, what the hell can i do to get it smaller.
Have many electronics but no optics knowledge.
Can someone show me a cheap way to make a zoom
objectiv with that diameter ?
Thanx
Rainer
One of the main reasons why i until now not go for a Hyundai LA50 " to have another 15" TFT teared for this thread "
is the following.
At the beginning i want to do it with a OHP Panel
and i have calculated and purchased (example screen)
everything with a 9" or 10,4" panel in mind.
I have no other chance in my room. basta !
I would go through all the Bigger Fresnel, Lightning Horror
if i could get my picure smaller.
I need 3.4 m to get a screen full which is 1.8m wide
or 90" diagonal.
But this is only possible with a smaller panel.
A 15" will be too big. The new ones also cannot throw
800x600 with borders (thanx rapsac)
So, what the hell can i do to get it smaller.
Have many electronics but no optics knowledge.
Can someone show me a cheap way to make a zoom
objectiv with that diameter ?
Thanx
Rainer
rapsac said:
I don't know about that. From what I can tell after reading the first post, this thread was intended for discussing ways to make a 15" display work on an OHP. The only person I'm aware of who's done this is cruser, and there's a discussion about it in that thread. I don't see any "pollution".
I don't like speaking for others, but he used a 14". He's been toying w/ the idea of a 15", and he discusses it in that thread.
Hey rapsac,
whats your thoughts on the FP557 ?
I'm looking at the very same panel. Did you think it was easy to dismantle? And was it easy to move everything else out of the way ? How did you support the electronics?
Finally 🙄 what are your thoughts on the panel and its performance? Any screen door or anything?
Could you post some pictures of ur results too please?
Thanks a lot
whats your thoughts on the FP557 ?
I'm looking at the very same panel. Did you think it was easy to dismantle? And was it easy to move everything else out of the way ? How did you support the electronics?
Finally 🙄 what are your thoughts on the panel and its performance? Any screen door or anything?
Could you post some pictures of ur results too please?
Thanks a lot
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