i know that if i want to plug my amplifier into the wall i will need a toroidal transformer.
and using any of the amplifier kits on ebay requires 20-30 volts AC
from what i have gathered.. you hookup the transformer to a power filter and then connect the output of the power filter to the amplifier.
this might be my first attempt at a diy amplifier because the amp i have running my back speakers has an internal crossover to seperate midrange/tweeter from bass frequencies. (the bass goes to a subwoofer because its a 2.1 amplifier)
i am looking to replace the amp with something that will provide full range output to the speakers.
but this isnt why i am posting.
what i want to know:
how do you use a toroidal transformer that outputs AC power and turn it into DC power?
i am guessing that the voltage from the transformer alternates its phase.
and the only way to make it DC is to absorb those phase changes with capacitors.
am i right?
i have long desired wanting to hookup a 1,000 watt rms amplifier in the house that is ment for car audio.
and i dont see this desire as changing because i already have a subwoofer for my car audio install but the entire project has been halted from a lack of money.
i just want to have the knowledge to be able to use AC or DC from a toroidal transformer whenever a project comes to mind.
i'd like to know that i can do it either way and stop limiting myself to amplifiers that require AC input. (which brings me back to car audio amps in the house)
i might continue to purchase AC amp kits.. but there are some car audio amps that have superior specifications.. and i can always build in the house and move the hardware to the car when i can finish my car audio install.
and anyways..
if using a bank of capacitors to turn AC into DC .. how does the power filter on these AC amps work?
do they not have the capacity to completely dull the alternate phase changes, therefore the amp is still receiving AC ?
or does the amplifier change the AC to DC with those capacitors and simply requests AC power?
and using any of the amplifier kits on ebay requires 20-30 volts AC
from what i have gathered.. you hookup the transformer to a power filter and then connect the output of the power filter to the amplifier.
this might be my first attempt at a diy amplifier because the amp i have running my back speakers has an internal crossover to seperate midrange/tweeter from bass frequencies. (the bass goes to a subwoofer because its a 2.1 amplifier)
i am looking to replace the amp with something that will provide full range output to the speakers.
but this isnt why i am posting.
what i want to know:
how do you use a toroidal transformer that outputs AC power and turn it into DC power?
i am guessing that the voltage from the transformer alternates its phase.
and the only way to make it DC is to absorb those phase changes with capacitors.
am i right?
i have long desired wanting to hookup a 1,000 watt rms amplifier in the house that is ment for car audio.
and i dont see this desire as changing because i already have a subwoofer for my car audio install but the entire project has been halted from a lack of money.
i just want to have the knowledge to be able to use AC or DC from a toroidal transformer whenever a project comes to mind.
i'd like to know that i can do it either way and stop limiting myself to amplifiers that require AC input. (which brings me back to car audio amps in the house)
i might continue to purchase AC amp kits.. but there are some car audio amps that have superior specifications.. and i can always build in the house and move the hardware to the car when i can finish my car audio install.
and anyways..
if using a bank of capacitors to turn AC into DC .. how does the power filter on these AC amps work?
do they not have the capacity to completely dull the alternate phase changes, therefore the amp is still receiving AC ?
or does the amplifier change the AC to DC with those capacitors and simply requests AC power?
Hi
The electronic device that turns ac voltage to dc voltage is called a rectifier.
You then use capacitors to smooth out the gaps created by rectification.
you can make a rectifier from diodes or you can buy them already constructed for you . they are known as bridge rectifiers.
If you want to make a power supply that works off mains ac you require a transformer.the main ones used in audio circuits tend to be iron core iE transformers or torroidial transformers as you mentioned.
now to power a large car amplifier 1000watts you say! will require a large transformer rated at least 1000va and approx 9 volts ac out when you put this volts into a rectifier to get dc voltage you will then have near as dam it 12v dc. You will also need some rather large electrolytic capacitors because of the large amount of current the amplifier will demand. so large torroid and large capacitors equal a large price.
just a question car speakers can tend to be very low sensitivity compared to speakers used in house what speakers will you use with a 1000 watts.
Just to help clear things up a little how many channels in your car amplifier????
Regards mad Mark
The electronic device that turns ac voltage to dc voltage is called a rectifier.
You then use capacitors to smooth out the gaps created by rectification.
you can make a rectifier from diodes or you can buy them already constructed for you . they are known as bridge rectifiers.
If you want to make a power supply that works off mains ac you require a transformer.the main ones used in audio circuits tend to be iron core iE transformers or torroidial transformers as you mentioned.
now to power a large car amplifier 1000watts you say! will require a large transformer rated at least 1000va and approx 9 volts ac out when you put this volts into a rectifier to get dc voltage you will then have near as dam it 12v dc. You will also need some rather large electrolytic capacitors because of the large amount of current the amplifier will demand. so large torroid and large capacitors equal a large price.
just a question car speakers can tend to be very low sensitivity compared to speakers used in house what speakers will you use with a 1000 watts.
Just to help clear things up a little how many channels in your car amplifier????
Regards mad Mark
Bridge rectifier converts the AC to same polarity but choppy voltage, capacitors then smooth this voltage to DC.
Running high power car amps is generally not a good idea in the home because they need a huge power supply. It is often better and cheaper to buy a cheap or used professional PA amp instead.
Running high power car amps is generally not a good idea in the home because they need a huge power supply. It is often better and cheaper to buy a cheap or used professional PA amp instead.
SO SO WRONG - YOU WILL END UP WITH AN EXPLOSION AT WORST.
1. The transformer converts AC voltage from one voltage to another AC voltage depending on the ratio of the turns on its primary and its secondary.
So a mains transformer will, usually have two primaries each of 115V (depending on country of origin). You are from the US so the two 115V primaries need to wired in PARALLEL to give you a 115V AC primary.
This will usually be specified as 0-115 + 0 - 115 (For example RED - ORANGE and BLACK -BLUE). In this case you would connect RED & BLACK together and connect them to LIVE and connect ORANGE & BLUE together and connect them to NEUTRAL.
PLEASE, PLEASE, if your transformer has ORANGE, RED, BLACK and BLUE wires coming out of it do not just connect them as I have suggested.
Many US transformers will only have a 115V primary with only two wires anyway. Only transformers destined for the European market will have dual primaries.
OK - So we have connected the transformer to the mains and the transformer will now transform the 115V line voltage iaw its specifications.
Let us assume that you have a 115V (Primary) - 24V (Secondary) transformer.
The secondary will produce approximately 24V AC, I say approximately because the transformer will behave differently depending on how much current (amps) you are sucking out of it. More about current later.
If you were to connect an Electrolytic capacitor across the transformer secondary. At best you would cause both the transformerand the capacitor to get VERY VERY hot and eventually something would fail, or at worst the whole experiment would explode.
2. You have to turn the AC into DC.
This is the job of a diode or a number of diodes. As you are a total newbie, let's keep it simple. You will need a BRIDGE RECTIFIER.
This needs to be rated AT LEAST THREE TIMES THE AC VOLTAGE so 100V would be a good choice, and at LEAST TWICE THE AC CURRENT.
As we are only experimenting a 100V 5A Bridge Rectifier will prove my point.
The Bridge Rectifier will have four connections, marked ~ / ~ / + / -. It's simple to see that the ~ and the other ~ are the AC connections. The + and the - are the DC output after the diodes have done their magic.
3. Now we have RAW DC.
This WILL NOT BE 24V DC. With 24V AC you will get approximately 24 x 1.414 - 1.4V = 32V DV.
4. Now come the capacitors.
The job of the capacitors is to act almost like a short life battery. The DC voltage still is in pulses, like a camels back, one after the other. What we need to do is store some of the energy that is being provided during the high part of the pulse so that we can iron out the cleavage between the lumps.
Think of them like a battery. As the lump gets bigger its charges up the battery, when the lump gets smaller the battery discharges to fill in the gap.
I'm trying to keep this to REAL BASICs here guys so don't condemn my Noddy explanation.
4. OK - what about current.
The transformer is quite happy transforming 115V AC into (in my example 24V AC). We now have to consider how much current (amperes) we need to drive the amplifier. Whereas VDC = VAC * 1.414. IDC = IAC * 0.7071. If you need 10A DC you will need a transformer that can provide 15A AC.
This is what is meant by the VA rating of the transformer. Within reason you simpy multiply I AC * V AC and add a factor of about 10%. 24 x 15 x 1.1 = 400VA.
5. Back to reality.
You would like to build a PSU to power a 1000W RMS Car amplifier.
If it is a true 1000W RMS (which is unlikely). then we ought to be considering building a 2000W Power Supply.
Most Car Audio is specified to run at about 15V.
So we are looking at 2000 / 15 = 133A.
1. Your Transformer would need to be a minimum of 2000VA at (15 / 1.41)V = 10V
The transformer and the diodes are completely unrealistic. These amplifiers are designed to operate with one or more HUGE car batteries supplying them.
1. The transformer converts AC voltage from one voltage to another AC voltage depending on the ratio of the turns on its primary and its secondary.
So a mains transformer will, usually have two primaries each of 115V (depending on country of origin). You are from the US so the two 115V primaries need to wired in PARALLEL to give you a 115V AC primary.
This will usually be specified as 0-115 + 0 - 115 (For example RED - ORANGE and BLACK -BLUE). In this case you would connect RED & BLACK together and connect them to LIVE and connect ORANGE & BLUE together and connect them to NEUTRAL.
PLEASE, PLEASE, if your transformer has ORANGE, RED, BLACK and BLUE wires coming out of it do not just connect them as I have suggested.
Many US transformers will only have a 115V primary with only two wires anyway. Only transformers destined for the European market will have dual primaries.
OK - So we have connected the transformer to the mains and the transformer will now transform the 115V line voltage iaw its specifications.
Let us assume that you have a 115V (Primary) - 24V (Secondary) transformer.
The secondary will produce approximately 24V AC, I say approximately because the transformer will behave differently depending on how much current (amps) you are sucking out of it. More about current later.
If you were to connect an Electrolytic capacitor across the transformer secondary. At best you would cause both the transformerand the capacitor to get VERY VERY hot and eventually something would fail, or at worst the whole experiment would explode.
2. You have to turn the AC into DC.
This is the job of a diode or a number of diodes. As you are a total newbie, let's keep it simple. You will need a BRIDGE RECTIFIER.
This needs to be rated AT LEAST THREE TIMES THE AC VOLTAGE so 100V would be a good choice, and at LEAST TWICE THE AC CURRENT.
As we are only experimenting a 100V 5A Bridge Rectifier will prove my point.
The Bridge Rectifier will have four connections, marked ~ / ~ / + / -. It's simple to see that the ~ and the other ~ are the AC connections. The + and the - are the DC output after the diodes have done their magic.
3. Now we have RAW DC.
This WILL NOT BE 24V DC. With 24V AC you will get approximately 24 x 1.414 - 1.4V = 32V DV.
4. Now come the capacitors.
The job of the capacitors is to act almost like a short life battery. The DC voltage still is in pulses, like a camels back, one after the other. What we need to do is store some of the energy that is being provided during the high part of the pulse so that we can iron out the cleavage between the lumps.
Think of them like a battery. As the lump gets bigger its charges up the battery, when the lump gets smaller the battery discharges to fill in the gap.
I'm trying to keep this to REAL BASICs here guys so don't condemn my Noddy explanation.
4. OK - what about current.
The transformer is quite happy transforming 115V AC into (in my example 24V AC). We now have to consider how much current (amperes) we need to drive the amplifier. Whereas VDC = VAC * 1.414. IDC = IAC * 0.7071. If you need 10A DC you will need a transformer that can provide 15A AC.
This is what is meant by the VA rating of the transformer. Within reason you simpy multiply I AC * V AC and add a factor of about 10%. 24 x 15 x 1.1 = 400VA.
5. Back to reality.
You would like to build a PSU to power a 1000W RMS Car amplifier.
If it is a true 1000W RMS (which is unlikely). then we ought to be considering building a 2000W Power Supply.
Most Car Audio is specified to run at about 15V.
So we are looking at 2000 / 15 = 133A.
1. Your Transformer would need to be a minimum of 2000VA at (15 / 1.41)V = 10V
The transformer and the diodes are completely unrealistic. These amplifiers are designed to operate with one or more HUGE car batteries supplying them.
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i have a jl audio 12w7 that has never really had a chance to perform.
i bought an amp for it.. but the amp had lots of ground noise.
i hooked it up in the house to listen for ground noise and it was still there.
after that, i had lots of bills and couldnt afford a new amp.
this was like 4 or 5 years ago.
i wanted to use the 12w7 to give a hefty boost in the frequency range of 10hz - 20hz only.
i already have two 12 inch woofers and thought it would be cute to hookup an amp in the house until i have all the pieces for the car audio install.
i still need woofers/mids/tweeters/crossovers and four channel amplifier.
i had some amps for the mains.. but i sold them since i didnt have the money for the subwoofer amp.
i mean..
i would look at the prices to run the amp at full power, and it was consideraly cheaper to run the amp at 75% or 50% .. i would take that route.
i really dont plan on using the 12w7 as a permanent subwoofer in the house.. but that may change in the future.
finding a DJ amp that can power the 12w7 was looked into.. but i didnt see anything mentioning being stable at 3 ohms
i am still thinking about selling the sub and purchasing something with an impedance that is easier to match with an amplifier.
then i would probably get two of them so i have lots of sound pressure.
but i havent had a chance to hear what the 12w7 can do.. and i would like to know what i have before deciding on selling it.
the amp that i had was two channel and offered the ability to play at 2 ohms bridged.
i think the coil was bad and the amp was running off of capacitors alone.. because there was severe oscillation when i turned the gain up.
that might have been good to pressurize the cabin with the oscillation.. but the rest of the output wasnt loud enough.
the extreme moving in and out mixed with playing the requested frequencies resulted in a rather dull output.
so dull that i dont think the subtle details would have made it through the rear seat.
besides, having the subwoofer amp connected caused the other amp to have interference.
i trashed the project and have been wanting to use the subwoofer ever since.
but i wont dare put it in my car without having an amp and speakers for the doors/rear deck.
you said aim for 9 volts.. does that mean rectifiers always add to the voltage?
i understand that if the phase of the AC signal is changing.. a rectifier would force one half of the wave to be the same phase.
which is going from ^v^v^v to ^^^^
and that is why there are still dips in the signal.. which is why the power filter is needed.
thanks a bunch.
you really hit the nail on the head and solved my question.
anyways..
i have felt what AC voltage from the wall feels like.
and those shocking lighters feel different.
am i right when saying AC from the wall looks like ^v^v^v^v^
and the voltage from one of those shocking lighters is ^^^^^^
?
because the lighter felt like it wasnt changing phase.. so i thought i would ask.
i bought an amp for it.. but the amp had lots of ground noise.
i hooked it up in the house to listen for ground noise and it was still there.
after that, i had lots of bills and couldnt afford a new amp.
this was like 4 or 5 years ago.
i wanted to use the 12w7 to give a hefty boost in the frequency range of 10hz - 20hz only.
i already have two 12 inch woofers and thought it would be cute to hookup an amp in the house until i have all the pieces for the car audio install.
i still need woofers/mids/tweeters/crossovers and four channel amplifier.
i had some amps for the mains.. but i sold them since i didnt have the money for the subwoofer amp.
i mean..
i would look at the prices to run the amp at full power, and it was consideraly cheaper to run the amp at 75% or 50% .. i would take that route.
i really dont plan on using the 12w7 as a permanent subwoofer in the house.. but that may change in the future.
finding a DJ amp that can power the 12w7 was looked into.. but i didnt see anything mentioning being stable at 3 ohms
i am still thinking about selling the sub and purchasing something with an impedance that is easier to match with an amplifier.
then i would probably get two of them so i have lots of sound pressure.
but i havent had a chance to hear what the 12w7 can do.. and i would like to know what i have before deciding on selling it.
the amp that i had was two channel and offered the ability to play at 2 ohms bridged.
i think the coil was bad and the amp was running off of capacitors alone.. because there was severe oscillation when i turned the gain up.
that might have been good to pressurize the cabin with the oscillation.. but the rest of the output wasnt loud enough.
the extreme moving in and out mixed with playing the requested frequencies resulted in a rather dull output.
so dull that i dont think the subtle details would have made it through the rear seat.
besides, having the subwoofer amp connected caused the other amp to have interference.
i trashed the project and have been wanting to use the subwoofer ever since.
but i wont dare put it in my car without having an amp and speakers for the doors/rear deck.
you said aim for 9 volts.. does that mean rectifiers always add to the voltage?
i understand that if the phase of the AC signal is changing.. a rectifier would force one half of the wave to be the same phase.
which is going from ^v^v^v to ^^^^
and that is why there are still dips in the signal.. which is why the power filter is needed.
thanks a bunch.
you really hit the nail on the head and solved my question.
anyways..
i have felt what AC voltage from the wall feels like.
and those shocking lighters feel different.
am i right when saying AC from the wall looks like ^v^v^v^v^
and the voltage from one of those shocking lighters is ^^^^^^
?
because the lighter felt like it wasnt changing phase.. so i thought i would ask.
hi again
no one as hit the nail on the head yet. please dont try to make a psu yet.
have a look around in the psu thread and learn a little about them first.
i would wait untill you get your car. That way you have no reason to mess with mains power at the moment. if you want to learn have a good look around this forum then when you get stuck come back and ask.
Be Carefull Regards madMark
no one as hit the nail on the head yet. please dont try to make a psu yet.
have a look around in the psu thread and learn a little about them first.
i would wait untill you get your car. That way you have no reason to mess with mains power at the moment. if you want to learn have a good look around this forum then when you get stuck come back and ask.
Be Carefull Regards madMark
i see you are trying to teach me some tips to get it right the first time.
the first thing i want to address..
if 24v into the rectifier equals 32v .. how do i setup a capacitor bank that will fill in the gaps but not increase the voltage?
the second thing i want to address:
what are these numbers ' 1.414 - 1.4V '
and how often can i use them?
third thing i want to address:
1.414. IDC = IAC * 0.7071
what is IDC and IAC (input DC and input AC ?)
fourth thing i want to address:
I AC * V AC
what is 'I AC' and 'V AC' ?
i dont know how to define these abbreviations to make sense of your effort.
i got the principle.. and building a power supply is complex, so of course i have already ran into other questions.
then there is talk about inefficiency and also unexpected additions to the voltage.
i think the unexpected additions to the voltage are what is really going to help when i decide to purchase an amplifier kit off ebay.
i dont want the voltage to go over the specified range.
no sense in building something only to connect a couple wires and have it break.
i suppose while i am learning, i should eventually find out why 1,000 watts takes a huge transformer for a car audio amp.. but a home audio amp can run 1,000 watts.
i am already starting to think about bypassing the transformer on the amplifier and feeding it the proper voltage.
and i understand that the parts inside might be low voltage but high current.
whereas the home amplifiers might have parts that are high voltage which makes it easier to find a reasonable transformer.
i have searched the forums on a few different accounts.
people are talking about having very high voltages on the 'rails'
and that has given me a path to investigate.
something along the lines of feeding the transistors the voltage they need from an alternative power source and bypassing the amplifiers original power input entirely.
anyways.. i am not numb to possible problems.
there are questions i have asked in the post above this one.
VAC against VDC.
In its simplest terms think of sand dunes.
V (Voltage) AC (Alternating Current)
Is like the bumps in the desert.
What we are after is what is left when everything has been flattened - ie DC (Direct Current).
If AC is specified as the height of the dunes. DC is the height of the flat plain that is left after the bulldozers have been through.
Mathematically VDC = VAC x 1.4142.
The current is the same but oppositely, so IDC = IAC x 1/1.4142.
In its simplest terms think of sand dunes.
V (Voltage) AC (Alternating Current)
Is like the bumps in the desert.
What we are after is what is left when everything has been flattened - ie DC (Direct Current).
If AC is specified as the height of the dunes. DC is the height of the flat plain that is left after the bulldozers have been through.
Mathematically VDC = VAC x 1.4142.
The current is the same but oppositely, so IDC = IAC x 1/1.4142.
okay.. a very big thanks about the heads up on additional voltage.
it would be a real heart breaker if i bought an amp kit and ruined it on the first day because there was excess voltage.
i have been slowly sticking my nose into electronics design for a few years now.
if you have a look at my join date to this forum, you will see what i mean.
i dont have my heart set on hooking up an amplifier that can run my 12w7 at full power.
but i would like to start playing with diy amplifiers.
it seems like i could use one for my rear surround speakers and if all goes well, i would maybe build some amps for my car radio.
it may be the only times i use the amps.. but if my experience is good, i would show other people that an alternative exists when they come to a forum looking for suggestions.
maybe some day i will go on to build a reasonable amplifier to power some subwoofers in my home theater.
or maybe i will start to bi-amplify my speakers.
money is one thing.. having kits with sound quality is also needed.
i wouldnt mind trying to learn some of the ways to make the amplifier sound better.
so far i have started with transistor quality.
i might move on to capacitors and other components of the circuit board.
i'm thinking about going to college for electronics as my second college degree.
therefore, the further ahead i get when viewing with interest.. the more i learn if i am willing to go to college and have a career as an electronics repair person.
i started to get frustrated when the science teachers began talking about diodes.
it seems like i have been looking for other components that are easy to understand, and if that component list gets high enough.. all the stress from being confused about a diode will go away.
i am slowly starting to build a virtual electronics project.. and one day i hope to take the virtual project and turn it into a hands on experience.
it would be a real heart breaker if i bought an amp kit and ruined it on the first day because there was excess voltage.
i have been slowly sticking my nose into electronics design for a few years now.
if you have a look at my join date to this forum, you will see what i mean.
i dont have my heart set on hooking up an amplifier that can run my 12w7 at full power.
but i would like to start playing with diy amplifiers.
it seems like i could use one for my rear surround speakers and if all goes well, i would maybe build some amps for my car radio.
it may be the only times i use the amps.. but if my experience is good, i would show other people that an alternative exists when they come to a forum looking for suggestions.
maybe some day i will go on to build a reasonable amplifier to power some subwoofers in my home theater.
or maybe i will start to bi-amplify my speakers.
money is one thing.. having kits with sound quality is also needed.
i wouldnt mind trying to learn some of the ways to make the amplifier sound better.
so far i have started with transistor quality.
i might move on to capacitors and other components of the circuit board.
i'm thinking about going to college for electronics as my second college degree.
therefore, the further ahead i get when viewing with interest.. the more i learn if i am willing to go to college and have a career as an electronics repair person.
i started to get frustrated when the science teachers began talking about diodes.
it seems like i have been looking for other components that are easy to understand, and if that component list gets high enough.. all the stress from being confused about a diode will go away.
i am slowly starting to build a virtual electronics project.. and one day i hope to take the virtual project and turn it into a hands on experience.
It seems to me that you think you can DIY this and save some money. Lets take a look at that.
What you are proposing to do will cost a lot of money. Say $100 for a large transformer, $10 for a bridge rectifier, and lots more for capacitors, another $100 easy.
You are at $200 just for the power supply not counting the AC inlet, connections and cables. All for something temporary. And I estimated way way low.
And given what you have said so far you may just hurt yourself if you try it now. I would advise you read up on power supplies and do not attempt this without in-person help from someone who knows what they are doing.
A lot of people who are new at DIYing start out by trying to build a 200W, 500W or 1000W amp and find out that you have to start with like a 30W amp to get going, and move up slowly. Power supplies and amps over 100W are very complicated and you have to be pretty experienced to get them working. You just cannot add more stuff to make it more powerful (wish you could).
So given what you are saying it seems to me that you are on an impossible task with your high power supply to feed a car amp (or to build a powerful amp).
I think by posting and reading here you are learning just how complicated this stuff can be- its not a very good answer to your questions but it is reality. At least you are learning.
What you are proposing to do will cost a lot of money. Say $100 for a large transformer, $10 for a bridge rectifier, and lots more for capacitors, another $100 easy.
You are at $200 just for the power supply not counting the AC inlet, connections and cables. All for something temporary. And I estimated way way low.
And given what you have said so far you may just hurt yourself if you try it now. I would advise you read up on power supplies and do not attempt this without in-person help from someone who knows what they are doing.
A lot of people who are new at DIYing start out by trying to build a 200W, 500W or 1000W amp and find out that you have to start with like a 30W amp to get going, and move up slowly. Power supplies and amps over 100W are very complicated and you have to be pretty experienced to get them working. You just cannot add more stuff to make it more powerful (wish you could).
So given what you are saying it seems to me that you are on an impossible task with your high power supply to feed a car amp (or to build a powerful amp).
I think by posting and reading here you are learning just how complicated this stuff can be- its not a very good answer to your questions but it is reality. At least you are learning.
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what did i say specifically that implied i 'think' i could do it?
because i recall stating that there are other things in question that need to be addressed so that i dont have an unexpected problem.
my question about choosing capacitors so that the voltage doesnt raise further hasnt been answered.
and i am okay with that.
i realize that if going to college and getting a degree teaches you something, selecting the appropriate values for capacitors is one such *benefit*
you are degrading my desire to seek college.
if you would have read the insight of my posts, you would be able to come to the safe conclusion that i have not been fully addressed.
and this may be a policy of the website.
i realize that it is irresponsible to teach people very basic principles without some kind of warning.
a lot can happen.
house fires or electricution being the top two on my list.
as far as i'm concerned.. i asked if the virtual proceeding in my head was correct and that was answered.
to that note, i was also informed about unexpected changes to the voltage.. as well as shortcomings to the current after being transformed/filtered.
i have taken that as a precaution and not only have i realized there are other obstacles, i have also mentioned some of the obstacles and provided statement that i dont know how to resolve those obstacles.
okay .. alright .. enough
i cannot afford to purchase a single component in the chain.
and if i could, i would only be able to go as far as logic would allow.
that would be purchasing a transformer and rectifier (measure the results) and trying to purchase some capacitors to filter the voltage.
playing around with the filter bank would be as far as i could go.
but the benefit of doing something like this myself is the given right that i can pick higher quality components to have a high quality result.
i havent even begun to build and evaluate the sound quality to compare what i built and the cost of what i built, compared with something that is already built for me and the sound quality that it provides.
i'd like to note that just because i would eventually move the amp and speaker to the car.. that doesnt mean the power supply cant be used with another amp.
i am seeing some amplifiers that have better specifications than a lot of the home theater receivers.
i dont want to argue about real world results because i know the world has its variables and that the method used to obtain the specifications might be different or the specifications listed are simply not true.
designing different filter banks might be a good way to learn capacitor characteristics.
but from what i have gathered here, i dont have the knowledge to specify charge values or voltage values.
i know that if i want guaranteed safety, i would need to take a college course.
and if i dont want to waste a bunch of money trying to learn the correct values the hard way.. again, i would need to take a college course.
i do appreciate your warning, as you should be able to see obviously.
there is no telling if a person is trying to build something that might deal with voltages that are life threatening.
you now know where i stand.. but you should have been able to gather the standpoint from previous posts.
i wish you all a stress free time with your repairs.
and i hope to see some of your repairs on sale so people can save some money 🙂
because i recall stating that there are other things in question that need to be addressed so that i dont have an unexpected problem.
my question about choosing capacitors so that the voltage doesnt raise further hasnt been answered.
and i am okay with that.
i realize that if going to college and getting a degree teaches you something, selecting the appropriate values for capacitors is one such *benefit*
you are degrading my desire to seek college.
if you would have read the insight of my posts, you would be able to come to the safe conclusion that i have not been fully addressed.
and this may be a policy of the website.
i realize that it is irresponsible to teach people very basic principles without some kind of warning.
a lot can happen.
house fires or electricution being the top two on my list.
as far as i'm concerned.. i asked if the virtual proceeding in my head was correct and that was answered.
to that note, i was also informed about unexpected changes to the voltage.. as well as shortcomings to the current after being transformed/filtered.
i have taken that as a precaution and not only have i realized there are other obstacles, i have also mentioned some of the obstacles and provided statement that i dont know how to resolve those obstacles.
okay .. alright .. enough
i cannot afford to purchase a single component in the chain.
and if i could, i would only be able to go as far as logic would allow.
that would be purchasing a transformer and rectifier (measure the results) and trying to purchase some capacitors to filter the voltage.
playing around with the filter bank would be as far as i could go.
but the benefit of doing something like this myself is the given right that i can pick higher quality components to have a high quality result.
i havent even begun to build and evaluate the sound quality to compare what i built and the cost of what i built, compared with something that is already built for me and the sound quality that it provides.
i'd like to note that just because i would eventually move the amp and speaker to the car.. that doesnt mean the power supply cant be used with another amp.
i am seeing some amplifiers that have better specifications than a lot of the home theater receivers.
i dont want to argue about real world results because i know the world has its variables and that the method used to obtain the specifications might be different or the specifications listed are simply not true.
designing different filter banks might be a good way to learn capacitor characteristics.
but from what i have gathered here, i dont have the knowledge to specify charge values or voltage values.
i know that if i want guaranteed safety, i would need to take a college course.
and if i dont want to waste a bunch of money trying to learn the correct values the hard way.. again, i would need to take a college course.
i do appreciate your warning, as you should be able to see obviously.
there is no telling if a person is trying to build something that might deal with voltages that are life threatening.
you now know where i stand.. but you should have been able to gather the standpoint from previous posts.
i wish you all a stress free time with your repairs.
and i hope to see some of your repairs on sale so people can save some money 🙂
Be careful of Home Hi-Fi specifications.
1000W is not always what it says it is.
1000W True RMS is an enormous amount of power and will require an equally MASSIVE power supply.
Some manufactures use PMPO (Peak Music Power Output). 1000W PMPO may only equate to 10W RMS. PMPO is an inexact science as it purely equates to the ABSOLUTE maximum that the amplifier may produce for a fraction of a section before it destroys itself.
Computer speaker manufacturers are probably the most guilty of the henious crime of quoting enormous PMPOs for speakers that contain small IC amplifiers.
yea..
i let myself soak in inception.
ppo / pmpo has been something i have come to realize as well as heard spoken about.
there are limbs on those components, and there are options to configure those limbs by either connection or disconnection.
how those limbs stack up amount to results that fill current at different requests.
thats why you pay a premium to have all those limbs coordinated perfectly. but even then, the selection of components might have been junk at the get go.
you request a sine sweep and request that each frequency has the same amount of current.
i'd tell you that you havent considered phase changes and will be able to make that amp look perfect in a weak response test.
real amps play the entire sine sweep with the same amplitude.
and they maintain that current for all frequencies of all phases from 0 - 360 degrees.
lets say 0hz - 30khz
30,000 possible frequencies * 360 degrees of phase each = 10,800,000 electrical requests compensated and calibrated.
i dont know how those cheap amplifiers are calibrated.. but i think the components are 'ringing' or 'resonating' to get those high wattage numbers.
it all depends on how big the ratio of peak to average is.
and it also depends on how often (if) those peaks are absolute maximums or relative highest gain.
because having absolute maximums with a high ratio will make the amp sound like its hot and burning at portions of the frequency range.
and with other frequencies suffering (or being different) it makes the final result obnoxious and undesirable.
you might want to use crossovers to use the amplifier at those high amplitude frequencies.. but if you dont feed the amplifier the full frequency range, those high amplitudes might change or otherwise become dull.
having relative highest gain means that you will have less absolute maximums and more generalized current across the frequency range.
the result sounds like the amplifier is working accordingly and you arent listening to components glow.
obviously there are huge gaps in amplitude with phase changes.
and i think if those phase changes were compensated for.. any flea market amp would show its true colors
Just curious here, congrats on considering the dyi route first of all.
But, you said you had ground loop issues on your old car amp...
What make/model was it?
Yes, even when people get to read those cool certified numbers on car amps they are tested on perfect sine power supplies that have way more power to supply than the amps could dream of consuming. For us of the louder mobile audio genre this makes it a hard game considering what we have to work with.
I maybe able to help you out with your ground issues, or even possibly power issues if you have a solid amplifier and are just failing to get it good power.
Lastly, any "PRO AMP *not DJ AMP*" that is stable at 2ohms will be fine at 3ohms. You can find a plethora of pro mono amps that are stable to 1ohm. ..
But, you said you had ground loop issues on your old car amp...
What make/model was it?
Yes, even when people get to read those cool certified numbers on car amps they are tested on perfect sine power supplies that have way more power to supply than the amps could dream of consuming. For us of the louder mobile audio genre this makes it a hard game considering what we have to work with.
I maybe able to help you out with your ground issues, or even possibly power issues if you have a solid amplifier and are just failing to get it good power.
Lastly, any "PRO AMP *not DJ AMP*" that is stable at 2ohms will be fine at 3ohms. You can find a plethora of pro mono amps that are stable to 1ohm. ..
the amp that had the bad power supply was a hifonics xx chaos.
and the amp that allowed the noise to bleed through was a precision power a800/2
i gave the hifonics away since i dont know which toroid to replace it with.
i dont have the knowledge to determine how many volts the rest of the amp wants.
besides.. i couldnt find any toroids of that size to even begin replacing the step-up coil.
the whole project has been dismantled and better left alone now that the pieces of the puzzle are missing.
i'll give it another go when i can afford to buy the pieces.
except this time around i am going for a mix of fidelity rather than simply upgrading the power for added decibels.
i'd really like to get on the project though because driving the stock speakers isnt loud enough.
i suppose its a problem of efficiency.
but i'd rather replace/upgrade my broken calibration microphone and adjust the equalizer with the speakers i already have.
although, the decibels are low enough that i struggle to hear.. which might actually be more problematic than calibrating the equalizer.
my situation is poor.. both financially and productivity based.
i've tortured myself enough.
and the amp that allowed the noise to bleed through was a precision power a800/2
i gave the hifonics away since i dont know which toroid to replace it with.
i dont have the knowledge to determine how many volts the rest of the amp wants.
besides.. i couldnt find any toroids of that size to even begin replacing the step-up coil.
the whole project has been dismantled and better left alone now that the pieces of the puzzle are missing.
i'll give it another go when i can afford to buy the pieces.
except this time around i am going for a mix of fidelity rather than simply upgrading the power for added decibels.
i'd really like to get on the project though because driving the stock speakers isnt loud enough.
i suppose its a problem of efficiency.
but i'd rather replace/upgrade my broken calibration microphone and adjust the equalizer with the speakers i already have.
although, the decibels are low enough that i struggle to hear.. which might actually be more problematic than calibrating the equalizer.
my situation is poor.. both financially and productivity based.
i've tortured myself enough.
The worst position to be in...
I find it odd that the Precision Power amp allowed noise to bleed through, they are not what they once used to be but still are not known to be bad amps by all means.
Did you check your grounds and cables? Possibly test it outside of the cars environment?
I find it odd that the Precision Power amp allowed noise to bleed through, they are not what they once used to be but still are not known to be bad amps by all means.
Did you check your grounds and cables? Possibly test it outside of the cars environment?
the precision power amp was okay without the hifonics amp connected.
and that made me think the ground was okay.
i tried a few different places to ground the wire.
usually i ground to the trunk latch because i know there has to be a load of metal there, and i know that the bolt holding the latch touches a thick piece of metal.
if i could have changed anything, i would have purchased premium rca cables.
but i ran out of money and would have had to make an adjustment to buy simple cable ties.
sometime when i had the precision power amp, one of the channels quit working.
then later on down the road, one of my 6x9's either got some dust from the rear liner in the voice coil area.. or the voice coil started to short out.
either way, the installation was a living hell.
i hooked up some old school kicker r5 midranges.. but i had already ruined one of the voice coils when i had the speaker in the house.. that speaker finally died in the car.
i also blew a generic tweeter.
and when i brought the remaining (still functional) tweeter and midrange into the house, the tweeter decided that it didnt want to work anymore.
it was completely dead after sitting in the car without being used for 2-3 years.
- bought a bad amp
- one channel quit on a new amp
- totally blew out an old school kicker r5
- blew out a tweeter
- tweeter quit working once i brought it in the house
- broke an rca cord
- somehow damaged an infinity 6x9
had seven things go wrong before i could purchase a high output alternator.. kinetik powercell.. premium rca cords.. line driver.. equalizers.. front speakers.. and amp for front speakers.
perhaps not the worst that could go wrong.. but the list was kinda long considering i like to do it right the first time so that things dont break.
i mean.. i just installed a new oil seal behind the crankshaft pulley on my car.
the first one ripped and leaked oil.
had to do it all over again.
and then, less than 24 hours later, my headgasket popped its seal between cylinder and antifreeze 'runner' or 'port' (whatever you want to call it).
i had seen some mild white smoke in the past.. but i didnt know if it was going to rush into a major problem or if it was the cold.
i was upset that i purchased oil and antifreeze, and then it all drained out the next day.
now i will have to purchase more oil and antifreeze and remove the crankshaft pulley a third time.
probably the worst time it could happen too, because i am waiting for a letter in the mail about this agency getting me a job.
kinda hard to go to work without a car.
i mean, we have local buses.. but i dont know the schedule or the routes.
and we have a couple taxi services, but i cant depend on them to be on time.
besides, i cant fix the car if i am at work.
then i have my mother on her $5 cell phone calling me with like 15 people partying in the background.
she and i both know that her phone doesnt have a volume control and its hard to hear somebody talking.
and she calls me up and hangs up on me because she cant hear me.
then calls back and expects a conversation on the phone to be functional.
the second she said 'HUH?!'
i knew that once again i was a victim to her 'perogative' .. as ugly as it is.
i know that it would be real nice to get a new seal on my headgaskets.. because i have had a loss of power for years and i thought it was the software bugging.
i just did a compression test about a month ago and each cylinder averaged 150 psi
i dont know what the pressure is supposed to be new.. but the repair manual says a minimum of 100psi
which makes me think the engine has the potential to be of service for many miles to come.
i just dont have the $150 for gaskets, oil, and antifreeze.
and i just borrowed $160 that i havent had the money to pay back.
i cant see any way around the economy, as it is a money-hungry system with zero sympathy for those of us that dont have money and/or friends.
i feel like i am being used for the sewage i flush down the toilet and nothing more.
all the forums.. chatrooms.. and articles i have subjected myself to have done harm more than anything else.
being awake has lost its enjoyment and has become a burden.
not enough positive things to compensate for all of the negative things.
the economy is quick to shove itself in my face and tell me to buy something.
meanwhile, i have no peace of mind regardless of who or what i am interacting with.
how bout that for an electrical problem..!
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