I recently was told about an add-on that is supposed to improve the sound of digital recordings. Its called TDS Audiophile
True Dimensional Sound). They are now out of business, which has been attributed to bad marketing, not the product.
Its a passive unit that is placed between the pre-amp and source. From what I could glean from some online articles, it that it functions as a capacitor coupled custom transformer that is tuned to offer increased amplitude in regions less sensitive to the human ear.
Anyone here know what this unit actually does?
More here: Welcome to TDS Audio
True Dimensional Sound). They are now out of business, which has been attributed to bad marketing, not the product.
Its a passive unit that is placed between the pre-amp and source. From what I could glean from some online articles, it that it functions as a capacitor coupled custom transformer that is tuned to offer increased amplitude in regions less sensitive to the human ear.
Anyone here know what this unit actually does?
More here: Welcome to TDS Audio
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Otherwise known as a tone control? I note that it also mentions "MAXIMUM harmonic enhancement", which means deliberately introduced distortion. This appears to be yet another effects box.
"Passive harmonic enhancement" presumably means that no active devices are used, so perhaps it uses the BH curve of a transformer to generate a little distortion? This would have to be mainly third-order so would not be to everyone's taste (some prefer second-order, others prefer none).
"Passive harmonic enhancement" presumably means that no active devices are used, so perhaps it uses the BH curve of a transformer to generate a little distortion? This would have to be mainly third-order so would not be to everyone's taste (some prefer second-order, others prefer none).
The only way one could listen without a tone control of some sort would be to play the music at the volume it was was originally played. Otherwise, by not duplicating the original volume level, the ear will perceive the effect of a tone control is subtracts from the sound. No?
Look at this please... http://tdsaudio.net/wired_enhancement.htm
Look at this please... http://tdsaudio.net/wired_enhancement.htm
OK, so maybe it is a loudness control rather than a tone control. Traditionally these were found on mid-fi equipment in the 1970s, but usually avoided by hi-fi.
Personally I prefer a quiet sound to sound like a quiet sound, rather than add response shaping but each to their own. I prefer sound without added "harmonic enhancement".
Personally I prefer a quiet sound to sound like a quiet sound, rather than add response shaping but each to their own. I prefer sound without added "harmonic enhancement".
You keep telling me what you "prefer." In contrast, I am trying to find out what it actually does. I sense that you are guessing as to what it actually does and never had one to take a part and measure. What it does was originally developed for sonar tracking for the military. It was not developed for hi-fi in its genesis.
The side view mirror on a car's passenger side distorts the image to look further away than it actually is. This distortion has been shown to be beneficial for how it is perceived in traffic. A purist would not have this distortion.
One day, someone is going to chuck all these rules to produce a system that actually makes the listener feel happy about what he hears, rather than being told what he must hear to be correct according to the rules. For, this designer will realize that the rules, as noble as they may be in attempting to form an objective goal, was in itself a distortion in its own way because of how we perceive music emotionally in the presence of the music being played.
A great portrait artist does not simply recreate an image of a person as he was. The better portrait artists know how to compliment the person's uniqueness and personality as to create a pleasing effect while at the same time, you know that the person painted is the person you know.
Since one can not recreate the room in which the music was recorded. To try and play what was recorded back through the limitation of audio equipment, no matter how low certain distortions may be? It will not be the original sound we will be hearing. Therefore, all audio equipment and the room its played in produce a distortion of their own in how they are perceived.
One day, someone is going to chuck all the rules and produce a system that actually makes the listener feel happy about what he hears, rather than being told what he must hear to be correct according to the rules. All the audiophile purists will hate him, but he will be making millions happy with what they finally can hear and truly enjoy. So far the lock step need of manufacturers to fulfill certain rules of audio (within reason)has kept them competitively trying to out-do their competition by certain specs, but fail to please their audiences. But, so far, their audiences are being told what to like, rather than being given something to truly like.
Well... so much for my rant.
The website tells you what it does, and gives some clues as to how it does it. It acts as a loudness control, and it add harmonics. It appears to do this using passive components, including wound components, so the harmonics/distortion presumably uses the non-linear BH curve of the core. I already said this, so I'm not sure what else you want me (or others) to say. It might do some cross-mixing of the stereo channels too. Given a circuit diagram someone might be able to explain exactly what it does and how it does it. Given the circuit diagram perhaps you could do that for yourself?
Many listeners are already happy with their sound, either because it is unadjusted or because it is adjusted in the way they prefer. I'm not sure what point you are making, except perhaps to "rant" (your description!) against your perception of the views of "purists". By bringing up portraiture you may be confusing artistry with reproduction. A painter may 'distort' the subject; a camera should not. In a similar way, musicians present an interpretation of a work; an audio reproduction system should reproduce this. If people want to add changes, to suit their taste, then they are free to do so. The problem only occurs when they deny that their changes are in fact that: changes. In order to correct existing unwanted changes (real or perceived) you would need to know what they were, and usually this information is not available.
Many listeners are already happy with their sound, either because it is unadjusted or because it is adjusted in the way they prefer. I'm not sure what point you are making, except perhaps to "rant" (your description!) against your perception of the views of "purists". By bringing up portraiture you may be confusing artistry with reproduction. A painter may 'distort' the subject; a camera should not. In a similar way, musicians present an interpretation of a work; an audio reproduction system should reproduce this. If people want to add changes, to suit their taste, then they are free to do so. The problem only occurs when they deny that their changes are in fact that: changes. In order to correct existing unwanted changes (real or perceived) you would need to know what they were, and usually this information is not available.
Just for argument sake...
But, cameras do. Always have. You will always know its a picture.
Certain photographers are famous for the mood and effect they are able to capture in their pictures. I have looked at certain pictures that produce an emotional response, not only because of the subject, but because of the pleasant 'distortions' (effects) that the photographer was able to capture.
With music reproduction? There is no such thing as an Absolute Sound. But, there is such a thing as sounding absolutely pleasant to our personal taste. For, no system can reproduce the actual musical event. But, even if it could? No recording process is free of altering what was being recorded.
I have come to believe that the purist market has produced products that have been designed to target fetishes in those who have more money than they know what to do with. Yet, the purist market's demand has produced better sounding products down the chain by finding ways to eliminate unpleasant distortions. But, just the same, better products that can not produce the exact performance that was recorded. Just sounding better than what used to be manufactured.
I find it amusing when I have done a search of the history of what was considered the purist hi-end audio products of the past. They were very expensive in comparison to what was in the mainstream. They were touted as being very accurate in reproducing the music. But, today? Some mainline products are light years ahead of what used to be available to only a select few back then. Back then, is only repeating itself today.
Things are obviously getting better in the quality of audio equipment by finding ways to eliminate what is not pleasant. But, ironically, many of today's musicians no longer strive for melody and tone. Now, its they who are introducing distortions and effects into the music that were not there before. hah hah! Can't win. Can we?
I believe the big secret to great sound is to regain our capacity to be able to simply sit and enjoy what one is hearing. At one time when we were younger we could listen and enjoy listening to stereos that today we would consider junk. Why is that? Imagine hearing today's audio equipment with that same capacity? Would the purist would look upon that person as being unsophisticated and a hick?
Smile! *CLICK!*
But, cameras do. Always have. You will always know its a picture.
Certain photographers are famous for the mood and effect they are able to capture in their pictures. I have looked at certain pictures that produce an emotional response, not only because of the subject, but because of the pleasant 'distortions' (effects) that the photographer was able to capture.
With music reproduction? There is no such thing as an Absolute Sound. But, there is such a thing as sounding absolutely pleasant to our personal taste. For, no system can reproduce the actual musical event. But, even if it could? No recording process is free of altering what was being recorded.
I have come to believe that the purist market has produced products that have been designed to target fetishes in those who have more money than they know what to do with. Yet, the purist market's demand has produced better sounding products down the chain by finding ways to eliminate unpleasant distortions. But, just the same, better products that can not produce the exact performance that was recorded. Just sounding better than what used to be manufactured.
I find it amusing when I have done a search of the history of what was considered the purist hi-end audio products of the past. They were very expensive in comparison to what was in the mainstream. They were touted as being very accurate in reproducing the music. But, today? Some mainline products are light years ahead of what used to be available to only a select few back then. Back then, is only repeating itself today.
Things are obviously getting better in the quality of audio equipment by finding ways to eliminate what is not pleasant. But, ironically, many of today's musicians no longer strive for melody and tone. Now, its they who are introducing distortions and effects into the music that were not there before. hah hah! Can't win. Can we?
I believe the big secret to great sound is to regain our capacity to be able to simply sit and enjoy what one is hearing. At one time when we were younger we could listen and enjoy listening to stereos that today we would consider junk. Why is that? Imagine hearing today's audio equipment with that same capacity? Would the purist would look upon that person as being unsophisticated and a hick?
Smile! *CLICK!*
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You may be surprised to hear that I broadly agree with your last post! I think the main thing I would quibble over is that there is not a purist market, but several purist markets. They target different things. Some aim at purity, but may fail to see the wood for the trees so sometimes strain at minor improvements in tiny areas. Others sell expensive effects boxes to people who deny that they are effects boxes. Yet others aim at people who want to show off their system to their friends (real or virtual) so external appearance takes precedence over sound. Finally there are the followers of fashion; they don't mind how much money they spend or how little they get in return, provided some fashion guru has announced that this or that is the latest thing and anyone without it must be deaf or stupid.
That would be like trying to market camera filters not as filters. But, as reality enhancers. In reality, they serve a great purpose even though they alter what is seen. Filters can produce some very enjoyable and pleasing effects when done tastefully. Yet? If the predetermined unrealistic and presumed goal is to capture an image which is indistinguishable the actual thing seen in the picture? That's when you will find a group which will be like the herd bound crowd we read about in the Emperor's New Clothes. They will try to control things and tell you what you must like. One must be discerning and march to the beat of a different drummer if he is to find contentment with what is offered today.
That is precisely what I was seeking to find out. All I can know is that the technology was developed to improve sonar tracking for the military.
Here's a blurb..
"The genesis of the TDS began years ago when the co-inventor Arturo Garcia was developing a sound enhancement device for submarine SONAR to enable exact recognition of other vessels. Arturo's son, Art, saw an application for audio and spent 5 years developing an audio version of his father's technology. A professional version was first developed and is presently being used in several music and film recording studios."
Mentioning a military origin for audio technology may look good in an advert, but actually means nothing. The armed forces are not interested in good quality sound; they have other things to worry about. Sadly, these days many music and film studios are not interested in good quality sound either.
The advertiser is probably hoping we will think "if the military developed it, then it must be good". Sadly, this is not necessarily true either. You probably can assume that anything developed by or for the forces will be expensive, though!
The advertiser is probably hoping we will think "if the military developed it, then it must be good". Sadly, this is not necessarily true either. You probably can assume that anything developed by or for the forces will be expensive, though!
The military did not develop it in the sense you presented it. It was the inventor himself who thought of the apparatus as a means to help the military. It was he who stumbled upon a means to better differentiate sounds. Later on, he and his son implemented it for audio use.
It was not some idea that some person simply learned about from the military and brought it over to civilian use. The manufacturer was intimately involved with the concept from its inception. I remember back when I had tube amplification, it was the military spec valves/tubes that some of us knew to look for. They are no longer available I believe. That goes back a ways.
The TDS does one thing I saw claimed. I have a video that had excellent audio before using the TDS. After inserting the TDS, it sounded like someone at the recording studio had moved just one volume slide further up front for one instrument. I was hearing something in the music that I could not hear before. It was not simply stronger highs. For it does not act like an equalizer effecting all instruments at a certain frequency. It sounded like the same great audio, but this time with an added instrument effect that was in the original sound.
It does just like one review said it does. It can bring out things that somehow get hidden in the mix. That much I can vouch for. I was surprised the first time I heard it do this. Not all recordings are effected this way.
Quite nice as far as tending to be bass heavy and mellow, perhaps. The TDS does not sound like any loudness control is being used. As far as accuracy goes with the old contours I heard there was a muddiness that the contours caused. That is why I believe they are not used anymore. The TDS allows you to hear the bass in a clear balance with with the rest of the music.
Mind you, its not causing a great leap in bass. For low end I am using another effects box that will boost the bottom end on the smaller speakers which I use in near field. Adjusted realistically it produces a very clean bass sound without a sub- woofer. With the TDS added into the circuit it actually made the bass sound not more abundant, but clearer. At first I thought it was cutting the bass. It was actually producing a clearer image of how a real bass sounds.
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I never said they did. It was developed for the military - submarine sonar to recognise other vessels is a clearly military application of technology.
Military spec valves may have longer life and/or lower microphonics than commercial versions. Some may have lower heater-cathode leakage. The voltage/current characteristics should generally be the same.
The TDS unit is basically a distortion generator. It's accomplished by using transformers with rather poor coupling between primary and secondary (in their patent--5,361,306--they mention using loudspeaker voice coils as the primaries and secondaries of rudimentary transformers for their initial experiments).
The turns ratios of the transformers they ended up using the in the unit weren't 1:1. The devices added a bit of signal gain.
It's well known that slight differences in volume are perceived as quality differences rather than volume differences. This phenomenon has been exploited over the years by many a dishonest audio salesmen who would slightly boost the volume of the system they wanted to sell.
The TDS unit would have a similar effect when directly compared without matching volume levels.
se
The turns ratios of the transformers they ended up using the in the unit weren't 1:1. The devices added a bit of signal gain.
It's well known that slight differences in volume are perceived as quality differences rather than volume differences. This phenomenon has been exploited over the years by many a dishonest audio salesmen who would slightly boost the volume of the system they wanted to sell.
The TDS unit would have a similar effect when directly compared without matching volume levels.
se
hmm....
I never forget once I was involved in small video project
filmed a dog jumping into the sea, to fetch.....something
I mixed it a piece of classical music
and was very surpriced to see that it now appeared like in slow motion
and only because of the music
well, I guess it just got more intense
but it was even more surpricing to see that the effect dissapeared when moving the tape from master mixing machine to ordinary video machine
but I don't know if it means anything
I never forget once I was involved in small video project
filmed a dog jumping into the sea, to fetch.....something
I mixed it a piece of classical music
and was very surpriced to see that it now appeared like in slow motion
and only because of the music
well, I guess it just got more intense
but it was even more surpricing to see that the effect dissapeared when moving the tape from master mixing machine to ordinary video machine
but I don't know if it means anything
And there's not one shred of evidence that it was developed for the military. All of their patents are in the context of music and audio. I'm sure the "developed for the military" is nothing more than an empty marketing claim to try and impress customers, just like the Bybee stuff.
se
Speaking of distortion.. You were doing fine up to a point.
Then you jumped to a presumption. Its not a matter of simply making the volume louder. That can always be adjusted to see what it really does. Those reviewing the TDS took this into account. What it can do is to bring back sounds that were buried in the mix. I witnessed to that myself. I was surprised, because the volume did not go up, but that distinct sound was not there without it.
Audio engineers were the first to get this device and that was their observation as well. There is more to it than mere speculation alone will reveal.
Maybe this will help. Others shared similar doubts as you just expressed ..Welcome to TDS Audio
I can not be a TDS salesman because this is a discontinued product. I just picked mine up dirt cheap. Built solid like a brick. Heavy steel casing.
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