I am unsure why I can not quote your comment so I will copy it here for reference.
Nisbeth said "Disagree, it's a marginal improvement at best - especially if the amplifier on the 500ASP is not connected to a signal and just idling. Have you got measurements to back up how much power you really need or is it just speculation?
Also, the 1000S is a positive/negative supply for the newer 300A2/400A2-modules, so the output is +/-. Some symmetric PSUs do not like if you just use one rail and if that is a not a problem you are unlikely to be able to get the full 1000W power out of it, so this is IMO completely off the mark for this application."
The 500ASP is not connected and just provides the power for the two 500A modules. What solution would you recommend to power both 500A fully?
Nisbeth said "Disagree, it's a marginal improvement at best - especially if the amplifier on the 500ASP is not connected to a signal and just idling. Have you got measurements to back up how much power you really need or is it just speculation?
Also, the 1000S is a positive/negative supply for the newer 300A2/400A2-modules, so the output is +/-. Some symmetric PSUs do not like if you just use one rail and if that is a not a problem you are unlikely to be able to get the full 1000W power out of it, so this is IMO completely off the mark for this application."
The 500ASP is not connected and just provides the power for the two 500A modules. What solution would you recommend to power both 500A fully?
Leave it as-is if you need two or three channels. The built-in amplifier of the 500ASP does not do anything, so you are effectively only powering two amps right now. If you use the third amp channel on the 500ASP you are theoretically losing a bit of power, but a) there are a ton of variables that affect whether you see a real-world difference in power and b) even with a small real-world difference, it is unlikely to translate into a noticeable difference in acoustic output.What solution would you recommend to power both 500A fully?
Disagree, it's a marginal improvement at best - especially if the amplifier on the 500ASP is not connected to a signal and just idling. Have you got measurements to back up how much power you really need or is it just speculation?
I've already posted it up there in the last picture. The full power goes from 500W/33ms (and dropping to 200-250W) to 500W for more than full two seconds! If that's not a whopping power increase then I don't know what you're expecting - a thousand?!
Also, the 1000S is a positive/negative supply for the newer 300A2/400A2-modules, so the output is +/-. Some symmetric PSUs do not like if you just use one rail and if that is a not a problem you are unlikely to be able to get the full 1000W power out of it, so this is IMO completely off the mark for this application.
No, that's wrong. You can feed one power rail into one module and the other to the 2nd. Okay, it's 'just' 69V but you can still use it if you keep the grounds separated. It's a dirty solution but it still works.
On paper, yes it is a big difference, but in practice it would translate to around 3dB more acoustical output - which you still do not know if the OP actually needs or if his speakers can handle.I've already posted it up there in the last picture. The full power goes from 500W/33ms (and dropping to 200-250W) to 500W for more than full two seconds! If that's not a whopping power increase then I don't know what you're expecting - a thousand?!
Also, both this (and your "available power" calculation on the previous page) is only fully relevant if you are playing sine waves. if you are playing normal music which has a lower energy content/higher crest factor (see e.g. here for test signal information) then you are not drawing full power from the PSU in a sustained way anyway. Based on the tables in the ASP designers manual a much better "value for money" solution if you are worried about the ability to sustain full power seems to be to add a couple of capacitors to the 80V rail on the ASP. Not quite the same benefit, but not nearly the same price either.
As for your comment on the power rail configuration: Yes you are correct, but I would never recommend this as a practical configuration, especially to a builder who by his own account does not have a lot of experience. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should...
EDIT: Also, have you calculated the drop in available power by going from an 80V rail to a 69V rail?
Also, both this (and your "available power" calculation on the previous page) is only fully relevant if you are playing sine waves. if you are playing normal music which has a lower energy content/higher crest factor (see e.g. here for test signal information) then you are not drawing full power from the PSU in a sustained way anyway.
That's exactly right. Have more than 2 seconds means it is always having the full 500W because of the high frequency cycle of the power supply it's never running out - but not only on music but at sine wave too.
Based on the tables in the ASP designers manual a much better "value for money" solution if you are worried about the ability to sustain full power seems to be to add a couple of capacitors to the 80V rail on the ASP. Not quite the same benefit, but not nearly the same price either.
EDIT: Also, have you calculated the drop in available power by going from an 80V rail to a 69V rail?
It seems you haven't really read it yourself. It's suggested to let the ICEpower amp module to run at 70V on 4 Ohm. Being 1V below this is a power loss so low it can be neglected.
I've lost you on the power spec - the 500A datasheet says 75V nominal input, 80V max. and 85V absolute max, and the 500ASP says 80V nominal output on the rail?. As far as I can work out, the max. power at 69V would be limited to around 400W into a 4 ohm load on a BTL amp, whereas with 80V you have a bit of headroom to 500W. If you think that is a negligible power loss then I guess you agree with me that we're nitpicking at pointless differences anyway? 😀
Is the intended application once power supply replaced for 4 ohm load only?It seems you haven't really read it yourself. It's suggested to let the ICEpower amp module to run at 70V on 4 Ohm.
I had that amp years ago...What I wanted to do was to make a linear power supply - transformer, rectifier, smoothing caps for the single rail 80vdc, and the +/-15vdc for the two 500A channels, and spring that 500ASP for another application. But those Icepower NHT amps were going for quite a bit 10 years ago, and did not want to depreciate its inherent value. I do not know if this would be same for you now....
In the end, I sold the amp to a fellow here on diyaudio, and with the $$ bought two 1000ASP (also from a member here) and dropped them into a inexpensive case from ebay (China). I still may have had a little more $$ after that for a possible third channel.
Single rail SMPS are not as easily found (at least on ebay) as the dual rail power supplies, and as Nisbeth says, some dual rail SMPS cannot be run off only one rail...
Is the intended application once power supply replaced for 4 ohm load only?
I don't know what kind of speakers he wants to use. I usually build my stuff that it can handle most situations, ie a speaker change, which happens a lot because I build my speakers myself. But again, that's just me, I can't say what CloudIT wants. He asked if he can use the 1000S as PS and that was my answer, he can indeed use it. It's not perfect (which I mentioned already). It's a bit hard to understand why someone would critizize me (not you) for answering that question.
Single rail SMPS are not as easily found (at least on ebay) as the dual rail power supplies, and as Nisbeth says, some dual rail SMPS cannot be run off only one rail...
It's easier to find single rail SMPS, just include the category industrial power supply (or whatever it's named in english since ebay doesn't directly-word-for-word translates the categories. There are a lot more single rail SMPS than dual rail. And for the single rail - I already said it's not a single rail use at all.
And for the single rail - I already said it's not a single rail use at all.
Confused.
The 500A requires 80vdc - 0.
A SMPS that supplies 80vdc -0 is a single rail power supply, yes?
Do you know where I can get one?Confused.
The 500A requires 80vdc - 0.
A SMPS that supplies 80vdc -0 is a single rail power supply, yes?
- Home
- Amplifiers
- Class D
- Any help upgrading my NHT Power2 that contains 2 Icepower 500As and a single 500ASP?