The TM025F1 and TM025F9 are identical except for the cropped edges on the faceplate of the F9 (Both use the same motor, textile dome, waveguide profile on faceplate, etc.)
The F7 has a titanium dome but same faceplate and motor as above. None of these have a foam or felt plug on the pole nor do they have a vented pole.
The F13 and F15 both have a second magnet on top of the pole for additional sensitivity. This also changes the resonance and the waterfall plot because of the decreased volume behind the dome and the closer proximity of the first reflection from the back of the dome to the top plate.
The F7 has a titanium dome but same faceplate and motor as above. None of these have a foam or felt plug on the pole nor do they have a vented pole.
The F13 and F15 both have a second magnet on top of the pole for additional sensitivity. This also changes the resonance and the waterfall plot because of the decreased volume behind the dome and the closer proximity of the first reflection from the back of the dome to the top plate.
F13 and F15?
Matt, I've never heard of the F13 or F15. Are they part of the Micro Tweeter line with neodymium magnets or the standard Audax line?
Thanks for all the info.
Matt, I've never heard of the F13 or F15. Are they part of the Micro Tweeter line with neodymium magnets or the standard Audax line?
Thanks for all the info.
The F13 and F15 are part of the Micro series. They look exactly the same as the TM025F9. The only difference is the second Neo slug in the motor that sits on top of the top plate. The F13 is 4 ohm, the F15 is 8 ohm.
The cool Audax tweeters that you guys probably don't know much about are the TW025A18, A20 and A26. These were developed for some high end OEM projects. We were just getting ready to get them to the distributors when the re-org took place. They are on the distributors price lists but I don't think any of the U.S. distributors ever got any.
Anyway, these use a Neodymium ring magnet with Telar-57 carbon free steel top plate and t-yokes. This steel has a very high magnetic saturation rating so we were able to get 2T of flux density in the gap (vs 1.3-1.5 for a standard ferrite motor). We also used copper clad aluminum voice coils for lower moving mass. The sensitivity of these units is about 95-100 dB (depending on version) with distortion about half of the standard tweeters. They also have vented poles with a (small) damped chamber. The chamber is formed by a cast aluminum heat sink. The chamber was not made large enough to make it a really low resonance tweeter, but it helped some. The one drawback to these was that we were not able to shield them. I tried to post some curves and pictures on the forum but the files are too big. If you want I can e-mail directly.
The cool Audax tweeters that you guys probably don't know much about are the TW025A18, A20 and A26. These were developed for some high end OEM projects. We were just getting ready to get them to the distributors when the re-org took place. They are on the distributors price lists but I don't think any of the U.S. distributors ever got any.
Anyway, these use a Neodymium ring magnet with Telar-57 carbon free steel top plate and t-yokes. This steel has a very high magnetic saturation rating so we were able to get 2T of flux density in the gap (vs 1.3-1.5 for a standard ferrite motor). We also used copper clad aluminum voice coils for lower moving mass. The sensitivity of these units is about 95-100 dB (depending on version) with distortion about half of the standard tweeters. They also have vented poles with a (small) damped chamber. The chamber is formed by a cast aluminum heat sink. The chamber was not made large enough to make it a really low resonance tweeter, but it helped some. The one drawback to these was that we were not able to shield them. I tried to post some curves and pictures on the forum but the files are too big. If you want I can e-mail directly.
leadbelly said:
I think this might be what you're looking for:
http://design3d.host.sk/Hi-Fi/Audax/audax1.htm
HTH,
dooper
dooper said:
AP should be some kind of resistor as its symbol indicates, just like R2. Or am I wrong? (I don't know about the three wee little dots above the symbol.)
BTW does anyone know the values of the caps, resistors, etc. used in this X-over design?
coolkhoa said:
It's all on the site that I linked above, but here you go:
L1 = 1.5mH, 0.4 ohms, #16AWG air core
L2 = 0.22mH, 0.2 ohms, #18AWG
C1 = 11mfd (10mfd & 1 mfd in parallel)
C2 = 8mfd
R1 = 5 ohms, 10 watts
R2 = 15 ohms, 10 watts
Anybody (Matt I bet you do!) know what that AP thing is about?
dooper
dooper said:
dooper said:
coolkhoa said:
No, as I said, I'm looking for more complete info than this. One problem with a ubiquitous kit like this is various vendors' variations. If you look at Madisound's stuff, it doesn't match DESIGN3D's stuff, etc.
The AP... is indeed a resistor. As for complete info, the original J.D'A. crossover can be found at the www.e44.com site, and the original J.D'A. cabinet dwg at the DESIGN3D link you gave.
OK im gonna revise my opinion on the AP100Zo and TM025F1, I had before said that they sounded harsh and indeed they do in the kitchen on el odieo hifi. Right I destroyed one of my amp channels, accidental short circuit for like twenty mins, not good it got hotter and hotter and fried
. Either way active three way requires 6 amps I now got 5 (replacement output trannies on their way now!). So I couldnt do without music so I temporarily "stole" me mum and dads speakers from the kitchen, they were not too impressed, I said they could have them back on tuesday so they were OK. Anyway, powered by 200 watts off slone super amp they are not exactly gonna cause it to clip. They do not sound harsh infact they sound rather good, sorry they sound very good indeed an thats next to an Excel w15cy and scan 9500 for comparison. They are not as refined as the seas/scan in anyway nor are they as detailed or transparent, and that lower distortion in the w15 yup you can hear that without any problems too. BUT appart from the flaming, they dont do anything wrong, what they do, do is thouroughly enjoyable, muscial and can gets your feet tapping. Max SPL is sumwhat limited and bass isnt the be all and end all, im used to two 850146's in the same room. BUT they still fill the 3*4 meter room with ease. Full 6dB baffle step is a MUST however, otherwise they sound thin and weedy.
. Either way active three way requires 6 amps I now got 5 (replacement output trannies on their way now!). So I couldnt do without music so I temporarily "stole" me mum and dads speakers from the kitchen, they were not too impressed, I said they could have them back on tuesday so they were OK. Anyway, powered by 200 watts off slone super amp they are not exactly gonna cause it to clip. They do not sound harsh infact they sound rather good, sorry they sound very good indeed an thats next to an Excel w15cy and scan 9500 for comparison. They are not as refined as the seas/scan in anyway nor are they as detailed or transparent, and that lower distortion in the w15 yup you can hear that without any problems too. BUT appart from the flaming, they dont do anything wrong, what they do, do is thouroughly enjoyable, muscial and can gets your feet tapping. Max SPL is sumwhat limited and bass isnt the be all and end all, im used to two 850146's in the same room. BUT they still fill the 3*4 meter room with ease. Full 6dB baffle step is a MUST however, otherwise they sound thin and weedy.
The search for another cone material
With the future of Aerogel technology questionable now that Audax is quitting DIY, what cone material do you think is the best for near-field listening (i.e. for "multimedia" PC speakers)? Like Aerogel, it should ideally have very little coloration and should give no hint of what it's made of. You see, paper cones may sound "papery," poly sounds "plastic," and metal cones sound "metallic."*
*I picked up this tidbit in a September 2001 issue of audioXpress magazine.
Please cast your votes everyone, and hope that Aerogel lives!🙂
With the future of Aerogel technology questionable now that Audax is quitting DIY, what cone material do you think is the best for near-field listening (i.e. for "multimedia" PC speakers)? Like Aerogel, it should ideally have very little coloration and should give no hint of what it's made of. You see, paper cones may sound "papery," poly sounds "plastic," and metal cones sound "metallic."*
*I picked up this tidbit in a September 2001 issue of audioXpress magazine.
Please cast your votes everyone, and hope that Aerogel lives!🙂
I suppose the 6dB is a must for me really where I place speakers in my listening environment. In the kitchen baffle step isnt a requirement as the speakers are placed flush with the walls, or close to anyway. Where I listen to them they are way into the room and subsequently dont get much if any room boost so Id suggest 6db or boost. Especially with a small speaker when the bass output is limited you dont get much added warmth so its easy to get a thin sound. Adding BSC helps a lot here. The speakers dont have any BCS built in I add it with the KX drivers, and they sound the best with a full 6 db added.
Matt D said:
Thanks for setting that right, I got confused on the numbers. Hence, it was the TM020J7 and TM025F1 that measured so nicely. And the double magnet was exactly the explanation I was trying to remember.
Still puzzling that the F1 is spec'd at 92 dB and the F9 at 91 dB since the only difference it the truncation of the flange.
I'm not so sure about the plug on the pole piece. I have pressed on the dome of my F9s, and there is something soft underneath. It feels very similar to the Vifa D27 which I have taken apart and which do have a plug.
About the TM025A18/A20/A26:
I just received my parcel. They are absolutely beautifully engineered, and they look much better even than on the picture. Can't wait to measure them. From the measurement protocols Matt sent me, Q_t is around 0.6 for the A18 and 0.7 for the A20, f_s around 1100 Hz. Fs drops nicely at 12 dB/oct below f_s.
From the response curves, it seems there is a 4-6 dB/oct droop between 1.9 and 1.1 kHz. The A26, which is a textile dome, and for which I only have the response curve, even seems to exhibit a clean 12 dB/oct behavior below 1.8 kHz.
No idea what is causing this. The impedance plot (of the A20, I believe) shows a secondary peak at 2 kHz which seems to small to cause this effect. Maybe it is the waveguide integrated into the cast front plate?
If you want to lower the f_s, drilling holes in the rear chamber may help, but I have no idea what the limit set by the suspension compliance and the mms is. Also, beware of creating a Helmholzt resonator (some guy on a German forum had these problems when he played with this on a Vifa tweeter).
Anyway, if you can afford to XO well above 2 kHz, this looks like a killer tweeter. If distortion is half of the conventional design, it will be truly great, because the A0 textile dome measured well and the A16 Ti dome was excellent two magazine reviews. Go for it, Matt is really nice to deal with!
(Matt, I may need another pair, gonna mail you right away).
Regards,
Eric
Yup another KX user very useful set of drivers for cards with the emu chips. The best bit is that you can get the cleanest path thru the DSP, or completely ignoring it (im not sure) but if u take the output on the fxbus directly to the epilog it sounds miles better, then if going through several DSP plugins.
5th element said:
I'll try this 😉
They are installed since a few weeks but I haven't found the time to play with the settings now
The main outputs are fxbus0 and fxbus1, take em directly to out 2 and out 3 😉
P.S. this gives the input to digi output, so you will need to enable digi out. Plus if u you s SB card get foobar to play any music with, its got an onbaord upsampler so bypasses creatives crap job and makes a big difference imo.
P.S. this gives the input to digi output, so you will need to enable digi out. Plus if u you s SB card get foobar to play any music with, its got an onbaord upsampler so bypasses creatives crap job and makes a big difference imo.
5th element said:
I'm not sure I got it.
But I'm not using any digital input or output. just the front and rear analog outs
I'll send you a mail, later this night. Threadjacking is bad 😀
Audax Super Sale at Parts Express!
I just want to point out to you guys that Parts Express is having a big Audax sale at www.partsexpress.com. The entire polymer-chassis Aerogel line and most of the tweeters are on the cheap.
Go check it out!!!
I just want to point out to you guys that Parts Express is having a big Audax sale at www.partsexpress.com. The entire polymer-chassis Aerogel line and most of the tweeters are on the cheap.
Go check it out!!!
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