Okay, thanx.. 🙂
ya know what....
I hate you guys....
even though I don't have the best enclosures I can still tell my CD player isn't the best, and I am pretty sure my amp could do with am ungrade.. 😛 its a flat frequency response and its never sounded so good... all my other speakers just haven't sounded right without some tone adjustment... (okay, to be honest I do have the bass control set to +4dB and the midrange set to +2dB, but thats cos of the woofers lower sensitivity.. 🙂)
ya know what....
I hate you guys....
even though I don't have the best enclosures I can still tell my CD player isn't the best, and I am pretty sure my amp could do with am ungrade.. 😛 its a flat frequency response and its never sounded so good... all my other speakers just haven't sounded right without some tone adjustment... (okay, to be honest I do have the bass control set to +4dB and the midrange set to +2dB, but thats cos of the woofers lower sensitivity.. 🙂)
Member
Joined 2002
SkinnyBoy said:
Still, when you build your towers I would suggest that you design them for a flat response. I'm sure you were planning to anyway, but safer to ask.
Are the towers going to full-range or do you plan to use them with a sub?
I like sealed boxes or transmission lines myself and prefer them to ported designs but everyone has their own views.
High-gloss white sounds great. You just have to ensure a very flat and smooth surface to achieve a good high-gloss finish.
Steve
Steve wrote:
I didn't know that you are one of the THAT kind of audiophiles! Do you finish your speakers according to your customer's musical tase ?
😉
SkinnyBoy
Your construction reminds me somehow of a mixture between an old Sonab (upwards pointing tweeters) and a Stereolith (stereo in one box). 😉
http://www.carlssonplanet.com
http://www.stereolith.ch/st1.html
Regards
Charles
I didn't know that you are one of the THAT kind of audiophiles! Do you finish your speakers according to your customer's musical tase ?
😉 SkinnyBoy
Your construction reminds me somehow of a mixture between an old Sonab (upwards pointing tweeters) and a Stereolith (stereo in one box). 😉
http://www.carlssonplanet.com
http://www.stereolith.ch/st1.html
Regards
Charles
phase_accurate said:
What sort of musical taste leads to piano-white speakers?
I believe that the white is very popular in Saudi Arabia. Many Saudis wouldn't have any other colour speakers in their Range Rovers or Mercs.
As for me, well the customer is always right. The sound remains the same but I'll do my best to accommodate all tastes when it comes to finish.
7V said:
Hmmm.... nope..... not going to design them to have a flat response.... the woofers are efficient as the tweeters, and I don't wanna waste any power, so I am tuning the boxes with a peak at the end of the lower response..... I don't wanna waste money on a crossover cos I would really like to bi-amp these.. 🙂
I choose white cos black is to.. 😛 veneer costs too much and it too tricky... plus, I wanted to round ALL the edges without having to put solid wood there.. lol also, high gloss black will show up all the dust and finger prints.. 🙂 hopefully white won't... lol 🙂 and its a nice contrast to the drivers.. 😀
Someone asked about a sub?? lol nah, I can;t afford one... if I had more money I'd put a 12inch XLS peerless in the side of each tower, and enclose the 8inch in about a 5 litre box... lol BUT I HAVE NO MONEY!!! 🙄 The towers are going to be 60litre... tuned to what the data sheet reccomends (60Hz) which does give a peak, but they handle more power this way, I think (less cone excursion)
Bill Fitzpatrick said:
I am 17, year 12, no job, 3 kids in the family (therefore parents have no money) no time for a job, I haven't gotten my license cos I have no money, I haven't gotten a job cos I don't have a car.. I haven't gotten a car cos I don't have a license.. lol I borrow, beg but never steal what money I do have... I have stuff I could sell for money... but I am a collector.....
Well I think your speaker looks cool, and don't listen to anyone on caraudioforum.com (a broad statement). Especially when a user calls himself streetracer...
Pete
Pete
cm961 said:
I don't listen to them... I always try to start arguements, even if I know I am wrong.. 😀 lol
How do I do piano finish? is there a comprehensive explaination somewhere? I have searched abit..... but.. I still have a few questions, like what type of paint am I using? I but a flat/mat paint on first, right? and put something over the top? **skinnyboy goes away to search again**
Piano white finish....(how to)
Hi SkinnyBoy;
>>>...How do I do piano finish?...<<<
Darned if I know the "official" way, but I've been learning it myself through lots of trial and a plenty of error. You should certainly practice on a small sample piece of wood and get results you like before attempting it on your opus magnum. There may well be better techniques for achieving this finish - if so, I hope someone will let me know! 🙂
For paint, I just chose some "Rustoleum" gloss white that was on sale locally. So far I've successfully painted a pair of DIY RS 40-1354's and am working on a CD stand using these techniques. These were made of plywood - I do not know how well this would work on a more absorbtive surface, like MDF.
BE FOREWARNED, THIS TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND A LOT OF COATS OF PAINT. IF YOU ARE IMPATIENT, THIS IS NOT FOR YOU.
Here's what I've been able to come up with so far:
1. Surface preparation is key. What's underneath the paint is every bit as important as the paint you apply. In other words, sand the heck out of it with 220 grit paper, raise up the grain with either the first coat of paint or a sanding sealer, then knock the grain down flat with yet more sanding. For the coat of sealer or paint that's used to raise the grain, use a brush. After that, see (2) below. Note: If there are ANY dings, nicks, or voids on the surface you will see them when you're done - no matter how many coats of paint you use. The time to take care of them is before you get out the paint brush. Bondo works fine to fill in little dings or nicks.
2. Paint in THIN coats. The best way I've yet found to apply the paint (without access to pro spray painting equipment and a spray booth) is to pour a bit of the paint on the surface to be painted (no, I'm not joking) and then "work it in" with a paper towel using a circular buffing motion - rather like applying an oil finish. Then wipe off any excess, again like an oil finish, as smoothly as you can. With practice you will improve. Allow plenty of drying time, preferably in sunlight (it dries faster so you can get more done in a day).
3. Sand in between each coat. When sanding, you want to take down the high spots while leaving the low points untouched (this way the paint fills in all the low points and you get a flat surface). Use 220 grit for big drips or runs (particularly on the first couple of coats). After that go to 400 grit between coats and work your way up to 600 grit. When you decide that you've got the last coat on, get out the 1500 grit paper. Particularly with the last few coats of paint, a light touch is the key to good results here. Also keep an eye on the sandpaper you're using - if it starts to load up, either clean it or replace it. If you sand with "loaded up" paper you will leave big streaks.
4. After you've done the last, GENTLE touchup with 1500 grit (to take out any "cloth marks" from wiping off the excess paint), IF AND ONLY IF you are happy with it go to (5).
5. Get out a tube of Flitz, Maas, or any other fibreglass polish (whatever you use, test it on a sample of the paint to be polished prior to using it on the results of all this hard work - you do not want something that might chemically attack your paint!!); with a wad of paper towels, buff it in using a circular motion. When the surface has been polished, you will need to remove the residue of the polish with a CLEAN, DAMP paper towel, followed by buffing with a clean, dry towel. You will know that the residue of polish is gone from the surface when the slight discolouration of the surface has cleared and the dry paper towel does not pick up any discolouration.
6. At this point you should have a finish that is very much like a mirror; any small ripples or dings that escaped your notice in the first steps on the original surface will be there too (as I found out with my RS 40-1354's, *sigh*). Be careful about scratching the mirror surface, because scratches will show. Perhaps a clear coat of some type would help out, but I've not done any work in that direction yet.
7. Edges of plywood are particularly difficult to get "right". If you need to, 6mm thick hardwood trim strips are a good way to cover your errors on the edges. Personally I like mahogany here, but whatever wood you've got in the scrap bin is probably okay.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Somewhere (about the time you lose track of the number of thin coats of paint you've applied) it will start to look "right". Don't get discouraged after 3 coats of paint if it's not perfect - it won't be.
Good luck.
Hope this helps and all the best,
Morse
Hi SkinnyBoy;
>>>...How do I do piano finish?...<<<
Darned if I know the "official" way, but I've been learning it myself through lots of trial and a plenty of error. You should certainly practice on a small sample piece of wood and get results you like before attempting it on your opus magnum. There may well be better techniques for achieving this finish - if so, I hope someone will let me know! 🙂
For paint, I just chose some "Rustoleum" gloss white that was on sale locally. So far I've successfully painted a pair of DIY RS 40-1354's and am working on a CD stand using these techniques. These were made of plywood - I do not know how well this would work on a more absorbtive surface, like MDF.
BE FOREWARNED, THIS TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND A LOT OF COATS OF PAINT. IF YOU ARE IMPATIENT, THIS IS NOT FOR YOU.
Here's what I've been able to come up with so far:
1. Surface preparation is key. What's underneath the paint is every bit as important as the paint you apply. In other words, sand the heck out of it with 220 grit paper, raise up the grain with either the first coat of paint or a sanding sealer, then knock the grain down flat with yet more sanding. For the coat of sealer or paint that's used to raise the grain, use a brush. After that, see (2) below. Note: If there are ANY dings, nicks, or voids on the surface you will see them when you're done - no matter how many coats of paint you use. The time to take care of them is before you get out the paint brush. Bondo works fine to fill in little dings or nicks.
2. Paint in THIN coats. The best way I've yet found to apply the paint (without access to pro spray painting equipment and a spray booth) is to pour a bit of the paint on the surface to be painted (no, I'm not joking) and then "work it in" with a paper towel using a circular buffing motion - rather like applying an oil finish. Then wipe off any excess, again like an oil finish, as smoothly as you can. With practice you will improve. Allow plenty of drying time, preferably in sunlight (it dries faster so you can get more done in a day).
3. Sand in between each coat. When sanding, you want to take down the high spots while leaving the low points untouched (this way the paint fills in all the low points and you get a flat surface). Use 220 grit for big drips or runs (particularly on the first couple of coats). After that go to 400 grit between coats and work your way up to 600 grit. When you decide that you've got the last coat on, get out the 1500 grit paper. Particularly with the last few coats of paint, a light touch is the key to good results here. Also keep an eye on the sandpaper you're using - if it starts to load up, either clean it or replace it. If you sand with "loaded up" paper you will leave big streaks.
4. After you've done the last, GENTLE touchup with 1500 grit (to take out any "cloth marks" from wiping off the excess paint), IF AND ONLY IF you are happy with it go to (5).
5. Get out a tube of Flitz, Maas, or any other fibreglass polish (whatever you use, test it on a sample of the paint to be polished prior to using it on the results of all this hard work - you do not want something that might chemically attack your paint!!); with a wad of paper towels, buff it in using a circular motion. When the surface has been polished, you will need to remove the residue of the polish with a CLEAN, DAMP paper towel, followed by buffing with a clean, dry towel. You will know that the residue of polish is gone from the surface when the slight discolouration of the surface has cleared and the dry paper towel does not pick up any discolouration.
6. At this point you should have a finish that is very much like a mirror; any small ripples or dings that escaped your notice in the first steps on the original surface will be there too (as I found out with my RS 40-1354's, *sigh*). Be careful about scratching the mirror surface, because scratches will show. Perhaps a clear coat of some type would help out, but I've not done any work in that direction yet.
7. Edges of plywood are particularly difficult to get "right". If you need to, 6mm thick hardwood trim strips are a good way to cover your errors on the edges. Personally I like mahogany here, but whatever wood you've got in the scrap bin is probably okay.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Somewhere (about the time you lose track of the number of thin coats of paint you've applied) it will start to look "right". Don't get discouraged after 3 coats of paint if it's not perfect - it won't be.
Good luck.
Hope this helps and all the best,
Morse
Nice looking... humm... yhea... speaker, right?
😉
Don't worry, hehe, I've done uglier looking speakers.
But I'm sure you could have paid your driving license with the money you *invested in that project.
Anyway, keep up the creative work.
*Property or another possession acquired for future financial return or benefit - Is that the proper word in that situation? 🙂
😉
Don't worry, hehe, I've done uglier looking speakers.
But I'm sure you could have paid your driving license with the money you *invested in that project.
Anyway, keep up the creative work.
*Property or another possession acquired for future financial return or benefit - Is that the proper word in that situation? 🙂
The Morse method is like a car spraying method. I have used this in the past. Here are my tips:
1. Start with a coat of sealer
2. You can then use spray cans of car paint.
3. When you're sanding, always use the sand or production paper on a block of wood.
4. If you're using 'wet & dry' production paper, be very wary of using it wet. Water can seap into the MDF and the next day you will have bubbles in your surface and will have to start again.
5. After the last coat you can rub with 'T-cut' (cutting varnish) on a cloth. This puts the real gloss on.
6. Then polish.
Take your time and you can achieve professional results.
This method works, but is not the true piano-gloss method. They use many layers of a special spray paint. I believe this method is easier and, probably, better but I don't know how to do it. Also, the paint is very expensive which is no good for you.
Hope this helps.
Steve
1. Start with a coat of sealer
2. You can then use spray cans of car paint.
3. When you're sanding, always use the sand or production paper on a block of wood.
4. If you're using 'wet & dry' production paper, be very wary of using it wet. Water can seap into the MDF and the next day you will have bubbles in your surface and will have to start again.
5. After the last coat you can rub with 'T-cut' (cutting varnish) on a cloth. This puts the real gloss on.
6. Then polish.
Take your time and you can achieve professional results.
This method works, but is not the true piano-gloss method. They use many layers of a special spray paint. I believe this method is easier and, probably, better but I don't know how to do it. Also, the paint is very expensive which is no good for you.
Hope this helps.
Steve
Thanks Steve;
I should have mentioned the use of a sanding block. FWIW, I use a rubber sanding block rather than a wooden one and it seems okay.
Also, I should have mentioned that it seems to work best to sand with a circular motion (like an orbital sander, only by hand).
>>>...5. After the last coat you can rub with 'T-cut' (cutting varnish) on a cloth. This puts the real gloss on...<<<
Very interesting!! Flitz works fine but it's a pain to work with. I'll have to check into that "T-cut". The CD stand I'm working on is 1.8 metres tall and that could simplify things considerably. Thanks!
Yes, I suspect you're right about the 'official' piano gloss method using spray equipment (no way would it make economic sense to spend this many man-hours on a commercial product). Sadly I'm short on funds these days myself so I'm improvising.....sort of like the way I make trim strips by ripping 'em from scrap lumber. Whatever works! 😉
All the best,
Morse
I should have mentioned the use of a sanding block. FWIW, I use a rubber sanding block rather than a wooden one and it seems okay.
Also, I should have mentioned that it seems to work best to sand with a circular motion (like an orbital sander, only by hand).
>>>...5. After the last coat you can rub with 'T-cut' (cutting varnish) on a cloth. This puts the real gloss on...<<<
Very interesting!! Flitz works fine but it's a pain to work with. I'll have to check into that "T-cut". The CD stand I'm working on is 1.8 metres tall and that could simplify things considerably. Thanks!
Yes, I suspect you're right about the 'official' piano gloss method using spray equipment (no way would it make economic sense to spend this many man-hours on a commercial product). Sadly I'm short on funds these days myself so I'm improvising.....sort of like the way I make trim strips by ripping 'em from scrap lumber. Whatever works! 😉
All the best,
Morse
Okay, perhpas I should have included more information... 🙄 I have access to a spray gun and booth... lol but less than a week to do this... lol 🙄 Perhaps I'll just go with a flat white... theres a can of white ceiling paint at school that I think I am allowed to use.. 🙂 lol
can i grossly over generalise here>
car audio industry= hype and not much facts > the users end up being the same
where as
hifi industry= more truth,facts,and specs> the users know something about what they are doing
not PMPO..... 'my headunit is 4x52watts so its better than ur 4x45watts one' ive heard mates who bought headunits ONLY for that reason... i would be more worried about pre outs and if they compromised on noise and THD while trying to cram in all that electronics into that small space
but for every rule there is an exception
hehe
🙂
car audio industry= hype and not much facts > the users end up being the same
where as
hifi industry= more truth,facts,and specs> the users know something about what they are doing
not PMPO..... 'my headunit is 4x52watts so its better than ur 4x45watts one' ive heard mates who bought headunits ONLY for that reason... i would be more worried about pre outs and if they compromised on noise and THD while trying to cram in all that electronics into that small space
but for every rule there is an exception
hehe
🙂Hi SkinnyBoy;
Okay, let's see: time is limited but you've got access to good equipment (the exact opposite of my situation). Also, you're thinking about going to a flat finish rather than a mirror polished one.
First, make sure that you've properly prepared the wood surface to be painted. This means sanding to knock down the grain, then filling in ALL voids, nicks, etc and finally sanding to ensure that the filler is down smoothly.
Next, apply a sanding sealer and after it's dry sand again. Then apply a second coat of sanding sealer and sand once again. Good surface preparation is the key to good results whether you're going for a mirror gloss or a flat finish; even a flat white paint will show blemishes, so it's best to take care of 'em before you start.
Finally apply paint in thin coats as you normally would with your spray equipment and allow enough dry time before proceeding. Between coats you will still want to gently sand with 400 to 600 grit paper to eliminate any drips or sags in the finish. Apply enough coats to get an even, clean appearance that is free of drips, dust contamination, etc.
Good luck and all the best,
Morse
Okay, let's see: time is limited but you've got access to good equipment (the exact opposite of my situation). Also, you're thinking about going to a flat finish rather than a mirror polished one.
First, make sure that you've properly prepared the wood surface to be painted. This means sanding to knock down the grain, then filling in ALL voids, nicks, etc and finally sanding to ensure that the filler is down smoothly.
Next, apply a sanding sealer and after it's dry sand again. Then apply a second coat of sanding sealer and sand once again. Good surface preparation is the key to good results whether you're going for a mirror gloss or a flat finish; even a flat white paint will show blemishes, so it's best to take care of 'em before you start.
Finally apply paint in thin coats as you normally would with your spray equipment and allow enough dry time before proceeding. Between coats you will still want to gently sand with 400 to 600 grit paper to eliminate any drips or sags in the finish. Apply enough coats to get an even, clean appearance that is free of drips, dust contamination, etc.
Good luck and all the best,
Morse
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