Well, it does take some time to figure it out, I'll give you that. Why they didn't just set up a side box with the data labels, who knows.
The data does look very reasonable. It could easily fool someone into thinking it was correct. But since they detailed the test setup, and it was a poor design test, that graph is fairly useless.
jn
The data does look very reasonable. It could easily fool someone into thinking it was correct. But since they detailed the test setup, and it was a poor design test, that graph is fairly useless.
jn
Only if they didn't reveal the details of the test setup, like a member on this forum does, its uselessness wouldn't have been noticed?
What's wrong with 6XRG58, 8 1/3 Ohms should be close enough? This would be unbalanced like most amplifier's output while the ribbon cable is balanced, jn would have to comment on this I'm not sure if there are any implications.
I can best express it as the subjective improvement. Improved clarity. Slight improvement in already good imaging. Tighter bass. Seemed like woofer better integrated with mid.
I just meant well structured comparison of two cables with blind or double blind testing. I think some people are skilled at critical listening. In my case I installed the cables. System sounded fine. I believed there was not much to be gained in cables so I moved on.
Both are constrained cables with no external field, no diff.
Even zip has no field an inch away.
Jn
Jn, The most pronounced change was the clarity more natural sound. Having read the thread since I initially posted I think that is consistent with some of the information you provided.
Wrt bass extension the bass just sounded better, tighter and better integrated with the mids and highs as if it is one seamless driver. So I pulled out my phone and used an app called Spectroid to see if there was any noticeable difference in roll off. It seemed that the system was staying flat another 10-15 Hz lower before roll off. Given your feedback that conductor spacing can't affect that it is possible I'm imagining it.
If you dropped gauge, that might be the bass explanation, but there would have had to be a big difference to show that. Your clarity could certainly be the reason.
An app on a phone might not be very repeatable within a room for bass, others here are well versed in room modes and such. I always worry about apps, as they are constantly upgrading the darn things so one can never be sure if the measurement is consistent.
My feeling on upgrades is... do it right the first time, build in what you think you need for the next 20 years, and leave it alone.
At least, that is what I tell everybody who questions my still using windows 95 and Visual Basic 5 on my direct wind machine. Hey, it ain't broken, don't fix it!!😉
Jn
An app on a phone might not be very repeatable within a room for bass, others here are well versed in room modes and such. I always worry about apps, as they are constantly upgrading the darn things so one can never be sure if the measurement is consistent.
My feeling on upgrades is... do it right the first time, build in what you think you need for the next 20 years, and leave it alone.
At least, that is what I tell everybody who questions my still using windows 95 and Visual Basic 5 on my direct wind machine. Hey, it ain't broken, don't fix it!!😉
Jn
One of the AES papers compared jumper cables, zip cord etc. along with famous name cables. Will run some tests tomorrow, but my most exotic cable is from RadioShack!
That after posting this?
Are you aware that a slight change of listening position can result in different sound? Blame the room mode.
re Listening position..
Are you aware that a slight change of listening position can result in different sound?
Yes, I'd have to say I'm pretty in tune with that topic. I am actually pretty anal about that. I measured distance from each ear to each and every driver with a laser to optimize timing from woofer, mid etc. Actually has a pretty significant impact.
But don't worry about it further. I'm just reporting my experience in case its of interest to anyone. There are so many variables in a system in a room it's pretty hard to come up with a repeatable explanation or recipe that translates to another system in another room. At this point I am with JN. It's the best I can do and I intend to enjoy the music until the caps dry out or my supply of triodes is depleted.
Are you aware that a slight change of listening position can result in different sound?
Yes, I'd have to say I'm pretty in tune with that topic. I am actually pretty anal about that. I measured distance from each ear to each and every driver with a laser to optimize timing from woofer, mid etc. Actually has a pretty significant impact.
But don't worry about it further. I'm just reporting my experience in case its of interest to anyone. There are so many variables in a system in a room it's pretty hard to come up with a repeatable explanation or recipe that translates to another system in another room. At this point I am with JN. It's the best I can do and I intend to enjoy the music until the caps dry out or my supply of triodes is depleted.
That's odd. Isn't standard zip cord or lamp cord 18 gauge (1mm)? I don't remember seeing any normal zip smaller than that.
The 24 awg is not rated for use as a line cord. But it’s been out there forever. It’s the cheapest possible thing the vendors could package with cheap systems. Save a penny kinda thing.
Jn
Jn
Keeping one's head in the exact same position is humanly impossible no matter how many laser measuring devices are used, especially when testing electronic audio components. Typically the listener would sit and listen to a set of speaker cables for a while, then walks up to the back of speakers and amp to switch out the cables, comes back to the listening spot and listens again (no compensation for our aural memory span and the head position change). Such method provides not enough consistency to make objective comparison. Many forum members post claims stemming from such subjective comparison and sadly many fall for it.
Great! I'm not trying to stop you from enjoying what you bought.
One of the Cyril Bateman paper's went missing along the way:
How "Electrically Long"is a 4.9 metre long Speaker Cable ?
these papers were on some other site before Wayne Kirkwood rescued them.
* * * * * * * * * *
these papers are rather different from the 1996/97 Cyril Bateman magazine articles in Electronics World (United Kingdom) magazine.
At 20:33 into the video David talks about the transition frequency where cable changes from resistive loss to electromagnetic loss.
RMAF15: The Cable Polygraph - YouTube
RMAF15: The Cable Polygraph - YouTube
All he did was define the transition as the switch from one to the other.
Absolutely no explanation as to what electromagnetic "loss" is. Is it radiated, is it eddy loss, is it just inductance?
Seeing the guys in the audience keeping straight faces was interesting.
jn
ps..he isn't a trained EE, is he? He doesn't understand inductance vs wire spacing. At least he doesn't explain it as if he understands.
Absolutely no explanation as to what electromagnetic "loss" is. Is it radiated, is it eddy loss, is it just inductance?
Seeing the guys in the audience keeping straight faces was interesting.
jn
ps..he isn't a trained EE, is he? He doesn't understand inductance vs wire spacing. At least he doesn't explain it as if he understands.
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jn, I found this on the Wireworld site, not exactly the answers you asked for, but at least something.
Look near the bottom of the page at Eddy currents and Electromagnetic loss.
Tech & Philosophy
Look near the bottom of the page at Eddy currents and Electromagnetic loss.
Tech & Philosophy
I have filled this pdf. Anyone interested, please PM me your e-mail address.
There is also this from Cyril Bateman
http://techdoc.kvindesland.no/radio/measurements_simple/20051021151535899.pdf
George
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