So, someone has posted a pair of Aleph 2 on Ebay... I guess it "pains" him to even sell them because his must be special.
$27K.
Pass Aleph 2.0 pair of Monoblock stereo amplifiers | eBay
Now, I've been wanting a pair of such amps for years. They tend to go around 3500 to 4K... and I got quoted about 1200 ( shipping is $$$) from the factory to recap them.
I gave the guy an offer which is fair... specially as he really doesn't say what shape they are and has not even bothered to post pictures.
Surely, I hope not to hurt his ego... if he moves on my offer, fantastic.
And as my wife said: "Honey those are pretty ugly amps"... to which I replied: "Well, that's why the Maggies are such wide speakers, we can hide the amps right behind them:... ;-)
$27K.
Pass Aleph 2.0 pair of Monoblock stereo amplifiers | eBay
Now, I've been wanting a pair of such amps for years. They tend to go around 3500 to 4K... and I got quoted about 1200 ( shipping is $$$) from the factory to recap them.
I gave the guy an offer which is fair... specially as he really doesn't say what shape they are and has not even bothered to post pictures.
Surely, I hope not to hurt his ego... if he moves on my offer, fantastic.
And as my wife said: "Honey those are pretty ugly amps"... to which I replied: "Well, that's why the Maggies are such wide speakers, we can hide the amps right behind them:... ;-)
. This is an actual picture from the listing:
You know, if it's RARE than the price goes uPPPPP
"RARE! Difficult to find in such clean condition. Some minor wear, tiny nicks, some expected natural discoloration from the heat on the heat sinks but otherwise in perfect working condition, no damage, or abuse."
"RARE! Difficult to find in such clean condition. Some minor wear, tiny nicks, some expected natural discoloration from the heat on the heat sinks but otherwise in perfect working condition, no damage, or abuse."
Two pairs have sold on USAudiomart this year at $2750 and $3500 (both sold
quickly). They’re cool but not worth 5x the cost when new!
quickly). They’re cool but not worth 5x the cost when new!
At $27K per pair, Papa might want to get a few more chassis set up on the CNC machine.
Maybe a brand new, Limited Edition for $50K per pair?
Maybe a brand new, Limited Edition for $50K per pair?
We'll see. I missed out on the two that went on sale this year because I was very busy taking care of family business.
It's getting to the point where I might simply spring for an ARC VT200MkIII.
I love the sound of tubes, I still have my D70MkII, but I need more power for my Maggies and my upgraded Rawson Aleph 5 monoblocks just don't put out enough power.
Wait! Before you flame, I'm having my Rawsons updated with proper grounding, new boards and safely moving the thermowirethingie away from the power wires.
I got my Rawsons because getting a used Aleph is really hard, I've been trying for almost 10 years. I even spoke with the factory about it and the latest Pass Labs amps are very expensive, too big and have, IMHO, too much money spent on the bling.
Oh well, so far I haven't heard from the eBay guy.
It's getting to the point where I might simply spring for an ARC VT200MkIII.
I love the sound of tubes, I still have my D70MkII, but I need more power for my Maggies and my upgraded Rawson Aleph 5 monoblocks just don't put out enough power.
Wait! Before you flame, I'm having my Rawsons updated with proper grounding, new boards and safely moving the thermowirethingie away from the power wires.
I got my Rawsons because getting a used Aleph is really hard, I've been trying for almost 10 years. I even spoke with the factory about it and the latest Pass Labs amps are very expensive, too big and have, IMHO, too much money spent on the bling.
Oh well, so far I haven't heard from the eBay guy.
Hi Tony,
I don't know which maggies you have, but perhaps my experiences may be useful.
I have MG3A's and tried them with an original Aleph 3 in a large living room. The Aleph 3 did not have the power for the large room, as was to be expected.
My brother has the same speakers, but was able to buy a 2nd hand Levinson LNC-2 crossover with the correct crossover frequencies for the MG3A. He uses Metaxas (100W) monoblocks for mid/hi and a Bryston 4B for bass. Much better handling!
We tried it out with my Aleph 3 for mid/hi and it was magic 🙂
I could not find a 2nd hand Levinson LNC-2 anywhere but got a cheap CX2310 Behringer crossover instead. I was not impressed. I then read an article about a speaker reviewer who had fed mid/hi with the full signal (eliminating the crossover in the chain for mid/hi) and thought I would try that.
So, I got rid of the external crossovers and bi-amped the MG3A's. I fed the full signal, direct from the preamp, to the Aleph 3 for mid/hi. Bass panels are powered by a class AB through the Behringer crossover.
Sound is close to perfect!
[Nelson's DIY crossover is one of the projects on my list]
A friend built a pair of Aleph 2 monoblocks for me to see if that would work for the MG3A's. They are nice and have a lot more power, but I prefer the Aleph 3 in the bi-amped setup.
Perhaps worth experimenting with a cheap (under $200) Behringer crossover before you commit to anything?
Perhaps the D70MII for mid/hi and the Aleph 5 (or something else) for bass?
Cheers,
Albert
I don't know which maggies you have, but perhaps my experiences may be useful.
I have MG3A's and tried them with an original Aleph 3 in a large living room. The Aleph 3 did not have the power for the large room, as was to be expected.
My brother has the same speakers, but was able to buy a 2nd hand Levinson LNC-2 crossover with the correct crossover frequencies for the MG3A. He uses Metaxas (100W) monoblocks for mid/hi and a Bryston 4B for bass. Much better handling!
We tried it out with my Aleph 3 for mid/hi and it was magic 🙂
I could not find a 2nd hand Levinson LNC-2 anywhere but got a cheap CX2310 Behringer crossover instead. I was not impressed. I then read an article about a speaker reviewer who had fed mid/hi with the full signal (eliminating the crossover in the chain for mid/hi) and thought I would try that.
So, I got rid of the external crossovers and bi-amped the MG3A's. I fed the full signal, direct from the preamp, to the Aleph 3 for mid/hi. Bass panels are powered by a class AB through the Behringer crossover.
Sound is close to perfect!
[Nelson's DIY crossover is one of the projects on my list]
A friend built a pair of Aleph 2 monoblocks for me to see if that would work for the MG3A's. They are nice and have a lot more power, but I prefer the Aleph 3 in the bi-amped setup.
Perhaps worth experimenting with a cheap (under $200) Behringer crossover before you commit to anything?
Perhaps the D70MII for mid/hi and the Aleph 5 (or something else) for bass?
Cheers,
Albert
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I have the 1.7's. They can not be bi-amped.
The Aleph 3 puts out 60w into 4 ohms, the Aleph 5 puts out 90w, so that's just a little bit more. About 2db louder.
The MGIIIa speaker are 83-85 db per watt while the 1.7s are 86db/w. That's a rather big difference as well. In my setup, the 17's play up to ~104db which is plenty loud when you think about it.
I put one of them Radio Shack power meters on the speaker outputs, and it amazes how much power those Maggies use. By way of contrast, I still have my original set of ADS L810s... right behind and to the side of the Maggies. Those old speaker will rock the whole house at much lower amp levels, but they don't have the sound "rightness" of the Maggies... oh well.
Mind you, the 1.7s don't need to play loud to sound full since the panels provide sufficient bass even at lower volumes. Unlike 'normal' dynamic speakers, panel speakers do have different sound characteristics across volume levels: they many not play loud but they don't have to play loud to generate bass. The great thing is that even stuff like rock doesn't have to be played loud to sound full and I can hear the instruments very well.
I've also run the 1.7's with the ARC D70MkII and they also sound very good.
Not arena rock levels and not full orchestral levels from row D, but if you're happy with row L they sound just fine.
I also have a pair of Entec servo woofers which I used to run full time with my Maggie 12s (still have them). In that set up, I cross over the bass to the woofers and it frees the panels from deep bass duties.. but honestly, I prefer the sound of the full range Maggies. It just sounds better even if I can't play them LOUD.
In any event, the solution, IMHO lies in more power... either the Aleph 2s or an ARC VT200MkIII.
We'll see... OTOH, the speakers do play loud enough for me as it stands... perhaps I should be happy with the quality of the sound. I guess I have not felt that my set up is lacking, I don't 'need' more power, I just 'want' more power.... oh well.
Oh, my room is 20x14x8. With openings on all four corners so the speakers load the room with few standing waves.
Note: I used to have TWO D70s... and I have two pairs of Acoustic Energy AE1s. I used to bi wire each speaker and place them one on top of the other. With the Entec woofers. In this set up I could run them dipole, bipole, etc.... and they played LOUD and clean. But you can imagine the neurosis hitting with so many tubes in two amps.... Not to mention the wiring! Kimber in the bottom, Nordost on top.
My wife is a very understanding person, I guess.
The Aleph 3 puts out 60w into 4 ohms, the Aleph 5 puts out 90w, so that's just a little bit more. About 2db louder.
The MGIIIa speaker are 83-85 db per watt while the 1.7s are 86db/w. That's a rather big difference as well. In my setup, the 17's play up to ~104db which is plenty loud when you think about it.
I put one of them Radio Shack power meters on the speaker outputs, and it amazes how much power those Maggies use. By way of contrast, I still have my original set of ADS L810s... right behind and to the side of the Maggies. Those old speaker will rock the whole house at much lower amp levels, but they don't have the sound "rightness" of the Maggies... oh well.
Mind you, the 1.7s don't need to play loud to sound full since the panels provide sufficient bass even at lower volumes. Unlike 'normal' dynamic speakers, panel speakers do have different sound characteristics across volume levels: they many not play loud but they don't have to play loud to generate bass. The great thing is that even stuff like rock doesn't have to be played loud to sound full and I can hear the instruments very well.
I've also run the 1.7's with the ARC D70MkII and they also sound very good.
Not arena rock levels and not full orchestral levels from row D, but if you're happy with row L they sound just fine.
I also have a pair of Entec servo woofers which I used to run full time with my Maggie 12s (still have them). In that set up, I cross over the bass to the woofers and it frees the panels from deep bass duties.. but honestly, I prefer the sound of the full range Maggies. It just sounds better even if I can't play them LOUD.
In any event, the solution, IMHO lies in more power... either the Aleph 2s or an ARC VT200MkIII.
We'll see... OTOH, the speakers do play loud enough for me as it stands... perhaps I should be happy with the quality of the sound. I guess I have not felt that my set up is lacking, I don't 'need' more power, I just 'want' more power.... oh well.
Oh, my room is 20x14x8. With openings on all four corners so the speakers load the room with few standing waves.
Note: I used to have TWO D70s... and I have two pairs of Acoustic Energy AE1s. I used to bi wire each speaker and place them one on top of the other. With the Entec woofers. In this set up I could run them dipole, bipole, etc.... and they played LOUD and clean. But you can imagine the neurosis hitting with so many tubes in two amps.... Not to mention the wiring! Kimber in the bottom, Nordost on top.
My wife is a very understanding person, I guess.
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I've begun to explore that route... going DIY for the Aleph 2s. Did you make your own boards?
That will free up some money for the ARC VT200 MkII.
My DIY Aleph 5s are painted a nice shade of black... that rarest of all Rawsons. If I got with DIY Aleph 2s I thing I'll have them painted a nice automotive black (or magenta or steel grey) with Ferrari Red flames coming out the sides. There are lots of metal/auto/paint shops in the area who specialize on exotic cars ( Newport Beach / Costa Mesa / Santa Ana ). I figure I put some real 'bling' on my amps.
Meanwhile, the 'special' eBay seller with his 'special $27K amps' has not replied yet. I gave him two days. I figure his reply will be that he "was insulted with the low ball offer".
Pffft.
That will free up some money for the ARC VT200 MkII.
My DIY Aleph 5s are painted a nice shade of black... that rarest of all Rawsons. If I got with DIY Aleph 2s I thing I'll have them painted a nice automotive black (or magenta or steel grey) with Ferrari Red flames coming out the sides. There are lots of metal/auto/paint shops in the area who specialize on exotic cars ( Newport Beach / Costa Mesa / Santa Ana ). I figure I put some real 'bling' on my amps.
Meanwhile, the 'special' eBay seller with his 'special $27K amps' has not replied yet. I gave him two days. I figure his reply will be that he "was insulted with the low ball offer".
Pffft.
Well, it looks like Mr. Special is ignoring my bid.
So the fundamental question that faces me... should I go with the DIY Aleph 2s or DIY F5 Turbo V3?
Decisions, decisions.
I think I want them painted (front and top panel) a deep dark maroon with Ferrari Red flames on the front panel. I figure we'll leave the heat sinks and back panel bare.
So the fundamental question that faces me... should I go with the DIY Aleph 2s or DIY F5 Turbo V3?
Decisions, decisions.
I think I want them painted (front and top panel) a deep dark maroon with Ferrari Red flames on the front panel. I figure we'll leave the heat sinks and back panel bare.
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always pure personal taste
which, as is Mighty ZM's , can be established as Absolute Truth
with Alephs, results are always predictable and even if some settings are needed, it'll be simple and easy procedure of setting Aleph CCS AC Gain ( current contribution of upper part of amp)
with F5, you need THD Spectra fiddling, to be sure what end result is; I mean - it is predictable with JFet selection and if you avoid use of 3rd trimpot;
if you want to have THD Spectra changed from bare bone Ver.1 (no 3rd trimpot), I'm easily finding my self in role of Donkey in between two haystacks .....
dunno - Pa probably spoiled me with all those more lush sounding ones ..... F5 is too serious one for my spoiled brain
which, as is Mighty ZM's , can be established as Absolute Truth
with Alephs, results are always predictable and even if some settings are needed, it'll be simple and easy procedure of setting Aleph CCS AC Gain ( current contribution of upper part of amp)
with F5, you need THD Spectra fiddling, to be sure what end result is; I mean - it is predictable with JFet selection and if you avoid use of 3rd trimpot;
if you want to have THD Spectra changed from bare bone Ver.1 (no 3rd trimpot), I'm easily finding my self in role of Donkey in between two haystacks .....
dunno - Pa probably spoiled me with all those more lush sounding ones ..... F5 is too serious one for my spoiled brain
Looks like a special run of the A2 heat sinks is going on. Not at all cheap, though.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/342637-pass-aleph-style-heatsinks-2.html#post6770831
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/342637-pass-aleph-style-heatsinks-2.html#post6770831
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This group buy might be of interest:
Pass Aleph style heatsinks
I’d love to build a stereo AJ in it, I considered it during the first round but it was a bit too pricey. I still have the AJ boards built up, but no chassis for them 🙁
Pass Aleph style heatsinks
I’d love to build a stereo AJ in it, I considered it during the first round but it was a bit too pricey. I still have the AJ boards built up, but no chassis for them 🙁