fire at will !
here is a thought .....
in the plus binding post of a speaker we excpect
Audio signal
minus resistance of the cable
minus any loss from contacts soldering and/or other
minus capacitance and inductance introduced by the cable
In the black binding post we expect zero ( given that the amp is not BTL )
So is that zero ? or is it
minus any resistance of the cable
minus capacitance and inductunce introduced by the cable
and even worst any interference from the near by signal line either our cable is flat or twisted or braided .....
What if one uses a very thick cable .....i had handy NSLF 16mm spot welding cable , multicore, pure copper to provide a low impedance ground for my speaker and a single core ( that plays very fine to my ears ).....to provide signal for the speaker
Now one will think that anything that is huge will introduce loads of capacitance in the line, so that is why i choosed to send the ground cable from the ground and the signal cable from the top of my wide rack, now distance from the 2 leads is like 60 cm over all speaker cables are no longer than 2.5 meters .
I used to play for years with kimber 16TC fine cable ...So a friend was busting my @@ to try a polised just 0.75mm pure copper cable PVC sleeve , 2 leads same for plus and minus slightly twisted .
Indeed that was a major improvement in the Highs, a lot changed there more air , super smooth , krisp and indeed very clean .....Though i lost amounts of bass ....tryed thicker single core no change , tryed double leads no change .....
i loved the highs like this but a lost a lot from the speaker .....Kimber next to that sounds haotic .
So i come up with this idea
based on that a non BTL amp the two leads have a different job to do....
Bass is now restored to a point of 80 %
Picture is open
highs are the same good
got the feeling ( still listening ) that i have just a touch of middle more
though the bass now restored up to 80% next to kimber very very tighty , not flooding arround , perfect control , Got the feeling that the total appears to go just a clik lower in frequency,and you have the feeling that motion is very very free ...
Your thoughts gents
here is a thought .....
in the plus binding post of a speaker we excpect
Audio signal
minus resistance of the cable
minus any loss from contacts soldering and/or other
minus capacitance and inductance introduced by the cable
In the black binding post we expect zero ( given that the amp is not BTL )
So is that zero ? or is it
minus any resistance of the cable
minus capacitance and inductunce introduced by the cable
and even worst any interference from the near by signal line either our cable is flat or twisted or braided .....
What if one uses a very thick cable .....i had handy NSLF 16mm spot welding cable , multicore, pure copper to provide a low impedance ground for my speaker and a single core ( that plays very fine to my ears ).....to provide signal for the speaker
Now one will think that anything that is huge will introduce loads of capacitance in the line, so that is why i choosed to send the ground cable from the ground and the signal cable from the top of my wide rack, now distance from the 2 leads is like 60 cm over all speaker cables are no longer than 2.5 meters .
I used to play for years with kimber 16TC fine cable ...So a friend was busting my @@ to try a polised just 0.75mm pure copper cable PVC sleeve , 2 leads same for plus and minus slightly twisted .
Indeed that was a major improvement in the Highs, a lot changed there more air , super smooth , krisp and indeed very clean .....Though i lost amounts of bass ....tryed thicker single core no change , tryed double leads no change .....
i loved the highs like this but a lost a lot from the speaker .....Kimber next to that sounds haotic .
So i come up with this idea
based on that a non BTL amp the two leads have a different job to do....
Bass is now restored to a point of 80 %
Picture is open
highs are the same good
got the feeling ( still listening ) that i have just a touch of middle more
though the bass now restored up to 80% next to kimber very very tighty , not flooding arround , perfect control , Got the feeling that the total appears to go just a clik lower in frequency,and you have the feeling that motion is very very free ...
Your thoughts gents
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My question to you may clear up your question too:
We expect certain measurement, likely a voltage reading, but in reference to what? A voltage reading is a potential difference. What is our reference point? Putting the black probe on the red post, and the red probe on the red post, we will get exactly 0V (ignoring theoretical parasitic effects from nearby conductors on our probes).
So does the measurement include the voltage drop across your speaker wire? Well, that depends on where you're measuring, and what your point of reference for that measurement is. At the terminals, between +/-? no, no speaker wire drops.
STAR ground is a trap for amateurs.
The real impedance that matters is the inductance caused by the loop area. Electricity flows in circle, you have to minimize the loop area to minimize impedance. For example, you have to bundle the power ground with power rail together to minimize the loop area. Amateurs usually route grounds with star topology, while wiring Power and Signal with point-to-point topology. The combination of these two creates a huge loop area, causing hum and RF interference.
The real impedance that matters is the inductance caused by the loop area. Electricity flows in circle, you have to minimize the loop area to minimize impedance. For example, you have to bundle the power ground with power rail together to minimize the loop area. Amateurs usually route grounds with star topology, while wiring Power and Signal with point-to-point topology. The combination of these two creates a huge loop area, causing hum and RF interference.
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No they don’t. They both have to carry the same current.
You experience difference between the various cable types. But it does not mean there actually is a difference. If you use standard copper 2.5mm2 and reasonable connectors there will be no difference by using other (I mean "better") cables. You still might percept a difference but that is because you know something has changed.
So you can save a lot of effort and money by using ordinary copper wire. When you doubt my cynism, have your cables changed while you don't know that they are changed or how they are changed.
I can write about 10 pages of psycho acoustical effects I swear I hear while it is totally impossible it is audible. The strongest experience I have is that I found the sound of my system had dramatically changed while nothing actually had changed. I had not even come near the system. But I only gained some knowledge about some properties of my system. And it sounded differently.
So you can save a lot of effort and money by using ordinary copper wire. When you doubt my cynism, have your cables changed while you don't know that they are changed or how they are changed.
I can write about 10 pages of psycho acoustical effects I swear I hear while it is totally impossible it is audible. The strongest experience I have is that I found the sound of my system had dramatically changed while nothing actually had changed. I had not even come near the system. But I only gained some knowledge about some properties of my system. And it sounded differently.
You listen differently when you try to analyse. It’s as simple as that. When I test a system, I put it on but I don’t listen to it, specifically: I just leave it on and do something else. If there’s something wrong with it, it will eventually annoy me.
ejp : you are talking to audio engineer with 40 years in the systems what the hell are you talking about .
jlinkels : after 40 years in the field been trying most of existing cables with pros and cons been studing theory and analysing reason why this cable plays like that and some other plays different in the same system.
Owner of a professional lab that makes repairs for 3500 audio machines per year having instruments that today cost above 100K and been implementing measuring tecniques to determine difference . Only the LCR analyser i have costs 10K
ejp: Yes indeed if one uses a simple speaker its a series circuit ....but if you check the reference for each cable , both refer to different things my theory is based on that .
JXDking : Indeed thats the idea lower the impedance of one half of the circle
Humbledeer : In the specific amps that are class AB with symmetrical power supply the CT of the transformer creates a potential zero . For all measuring the refernce is that My theory is based on lowering the impedance of that or sendindg an as much rowbust potential zero to the speaker
jlinkels : after 40 years in the field been trying most of existing cables with pros and cons been studing theory and analysing reason why this cable plays like that and some other plays different in the same system.
Owner of a professional lab that makes repairs for 3500 audio machines per year having instruments that today cost above 100K and been implementing measuring tecniques to determine difference . Only the LCR analyser i have costs 10K
ejp: Yes indeed if one uses a simple speaker its a series circuit ....but if you check the reference for each cable , both refer to different things my theory is based on that .
JXDking : Indeed thats the idea lower the impedance of one half of the circle
Humbledeer : In the specific amps that are class AB with symmetrical power supply the CT of the transformer creates a potential zero . For all measuring the refernce is that My theory is based on lowering the impedance of that or sendindg an as much rowbust potential zero to the speaker
One of Rotel's design is a typical class AB complementary double darligton
One trafo 4 big caps one copper bar for star ground
so from each board separte grounds for each section go to star ground
in total from each board 5 cables
Two of those are separate for each decoupling cap for every chanel
All cables to star ground is 1.5mm except the 4 cables for the decoupling caps that are 2.5 mm
explain why and we are getting somewhere
One trafo 4 big caps one copper bar for star ground
so from each board separte grounds for each section go to star ground
in total from each board 5 cables
Two of those are separate for each decoupling cap for every chanel
All cables to star ground is 1.5mm except the 4 cables for the decoupling caps that are 2.5 mm
explain why and we are getting somewhere
unless that bar is "X" shaped, then its not a true star.
if its a straight bar, then its a buss-star combo.
I have no means of knowing who I am talking to, but there is nothing wrong in what I said. Manners please.