The difference in resistivity is actually some 7%, unless Russian silver is less pure (Copper Vs. Silver Wire Conductivity | Sciencing)
The difference in price between silver and copper in Europe is a factor 150 for manufactured magnet wire.
You will find the same difference in resistivity when checking various sources.
I wound exactly the same transformers with copper and silver wire (both Elektrisola manufacture) and the difference is indeed about 7%.
Your link exactly confirms the difference of some 7% (0.016 - 0.017).
Is your calculator Russian? 😀
Yes that's 6% wrong when it is actually 7%.
😕😕
With all respect Gunfu, but if someone around you is able to do the English language for you it would become a bit easier to understand what you mean.
Then what will happen with copper loss?
😕😕
With all respect Gunfu, but if someone around you is able to do the English language for you it would become a bit easier to understand what you mean.
Then what will happen with copper loss?
I say that the difference in resistivity between copper and silver is not as great as the difference in price between these metals (80-150 times).
You claim the advantage of amorphous cores for power supply transformers because of less "power loss".
For comparable transformers the amorphous core must be larger to compensate for the maximum B.
So the amorphous transformer will have higher DC resistances (and therefore "losses") no matter if wound with copper or silver.
So what remains being an advantage??
Apart from that, the amorphous transformer will be better in transferring line rubbish from primary to secondary because of it's lower high frequency losses, and we don't want that.
Screening the primary from secondary with a copper shield is a must then.
Silicon steel (M6 grade) is good enough for power supply transformers; it has a higher saturation treshold than amorphous and has no more losses within the same envelope.
For power supply chokes on the other hand the finer materials have an advantage.
For comparable transformers the amorphous core must be larger to compensate for the maximum B.
So the amorphous transformer will have higher DC resistances (and therefore "losses") no matter if wound with copper or silver.
So what remains being an advantage??
Apart from that, the amorphous transformer will be better in transferring line rubbish from primary to secondary because of it's lower high frequency losses, and we don't want that.
Screening the primary from secondary with a copper shield is a must then.
Silicon steel (M6 grade) is good enough for power supply transformers; it has a higher saturation treshold than amorphous and has no more losses within the same envelope.
For power supply chokes on the other hand the finer materials have an advantage.
You wrote so much in vain. Here, look again, a graph comparing the efficiency of two transformers of the same power. https://journal.uptimeinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/91.jpg
Yes, the difference between audio application and industrial power plant.
Do you have an example of an audio amplifier with a 2 million watt power supply transformer?
Besides, in your graph the difference in efficiency at load over 50% is only 0.5%.
That might be a factor of economy in a power plant; for audio amplifiers it has no meaning at all.
Do you have an example of an audio amplifier with a 2 million watt power supply transformer?
Besides, in your graph the difference in efficiency at load over 50% is only 0.5%.
That might be a factor of economy in a power plant; for audio amplifiers it has no meaning at all.
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Ok, amorpheous cores may provide a tiny bit better efficiency, which may be useful in large, high-power installations. So what?
But you used silver in sound amplifiers, the cost of which is 150 times more expensive, but only 6% better than copper. Wrap a silver wire on a silicon steel - it's just lost money, because the efficiency of an amorphous magnetic core is 6 times !!! higher than the silicon core, and not by 6% as in your case when silver was used. And the price of an amorphous magnetic core is now practically commensurate with the price of the best silicon steel.
What do not you understand? I have already written that the efficiency of a transformer with an amorphous magnetic core and a copper winding is higher than that of a silicon steel transformer and wound with silver wire, the total cost of which will be 150 times higher!
Is this a bad result?
If the price is 150 times lower for an amorphous transformer, and the efficiency will still be higher!
OK, you are the champion magician in numbers 😀 (I give up...😱)
For your interest, I use silver wire on Finemet (nanocrystalline) c-cores at the customers request. I would never do it for myself because there are millions of options to spend your money better IMO
in Germany we call it UNFUG😉OK, you are the champion magician in numbers 😀 (I give up...😱)
For your interest, I use silver wire on Finemet (nanocrystalline) c-cores at the customers request. I would never do it for myself because there are millions of options to spend your money better IMO
It is interesting, how much more losses in the c-core is due to the presence of a cut in comparison with the toroidal one?OK, you are the champion magician in numbers 😀 (I give up...😱)
For your interest, I use silver wire on Finemet (nanocrystalline) c-cores at the customers request. I would never do it for myself because there are millions of options to spend your money better IMO
I think that the c-core does not deserve a silver wire, here you are right, again, money to the wind ...
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That's a different subject.
The cores of single ended output transformers need air gaps (unless you prefer huge non gapped toroidal cores which can cope with the DC current).
The cores of single ended output transformers need air gaps (unless you prefer huge non gapped toroidal cores which can cope with the DC current).
However, the gap is a loss in high-quality Finemet (nanocrystalline) cores. In this case, there is no need to use a wire 150 times more expensive than a copper wire if the losses in the magnetic circuit are again increased.
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The transformer does not work at direct current, there is no sense in reducing the losses in wires for direct current by such a high price (150 times) if the total losses for the alternating current due to losses in the magnetic circuit will still be high.
Now do you understand what I'm leading to?
What is the true worth and effectiveness of an amorphous closed toroidal magnetic circuit?
Now do you understand what I'm leading to?
What is the true worth and effectiveness of an amorphous closed toroidal magnetic circuit?
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Air gaps cause loss of permeability in any core material.
Nevertheless, there are audible differences between comparable air gapped transformers wound on different core materials.
Some prefer silicon steel over amorphous and v.v.
Finemet is different again.
Much can be declared physically; in the end subjective preferences prevail....it's audio 😉
Less than a Finemet closed toroidal magnet circuit.
Do you want me to give you a link to prove?
C-core Finemet (nanocrystalline) less loss than toroid Finemet (nanocrystalline), too? As Stanislavsky said I do not believe...
I did not say that.
I claimed Finemet closed toroidal cores to have less loss than amorphous closed toroidal cores.
Please read carefully...
I claimed Finemet closed toroidal cores to have less loss than amorphous closed toroidal cores.
Please read carefully...
Even in the audio, the laws of physics apply. And these are not Santa Claus tales or any mysticism. The fact that the transformers operate on alternating current, rather than on a constant one, is the basis of the low internal resistance of the transformer on an amorphous alloy as a voltage source. Therefore it is useless to simply think about the resistance and losses in the wires without thinking about the losses in the magnetic circuit.
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