I've been thinking about getting back in to DIY hifi stuff after a long absence and had my eye on Paul Carmody's Amiga floorstanders due to availability of parts in Australia and generally good reviews.
I then looked at my space and realised a pair of floorstanders really isn't going to fit 🙁
Paul mentions in the Amiga article that they can be built in a bookshelf format in a sealed box of 8-11 litres. The woofer (dayton rs180-8) datasheet recommends closer to 5.5 litres to get q =0.707.
Anyone done this or have any advice on what cabinet size would be optimal or why Paul would have recommended larger sizes?
Cheers
I then looked at my space and realised a pair of floorstanders really isn't going to fit 🙁
Paul mentions in the Amiga article that they can be built in a bookshelf format in a sealed box of 8-11 litres. The woofer (dayton rs180-8) datasheet recommends closer to 5.5 litres to get q =0.707.
Anyone done this or have any advice on what cabinet size would be optimal or why Paul would have recommended larger sizes?
Cheers
I'd believe Mr Carmody over that data sheet, he's worked with that driver a lot.
Unfortunately due to the A$ going down the S bend and shipping costs, Dayton drivers are getting very expensive here - I bought my RS180Ps in 2014 for $65, now about $140 - but the 180s look pretty cool and the Amigas receive nothing but good reviews.
Geoff
Unfortunately due to the A$ going down the S bend and shipping costs, Dayton drivers are getting very expensive here - I bought my RS180Ps in 2014 for $65, now about $140 - but the 180s look pretty cool and the Amigas receive nothing but good reviews.
Geoff
if you have to make a dayton kit, make cnotes. amiga are OK, dated design imo, something like the cnote that controls dispersion just sounds better to my ears.
You can cut amiga down but they'll need a sub, or play around with Sims to come up with a new porting scheme for the smaller enclosure.
You can cut amiga down but they'll need a sub, or play around with Sims to come up with a new porting scheme for the smaller enclosure.
I just checked the prices: the RS180-8s are now $175 and the tweeters, $70 from the local supplier, so your total driver cost will be almost $500. The RS180P-8s are $139 and there are a few good projects with that one.
I don't wish to confuse things, but there might be better value projects out there which use, for example, locally available Peerless HDS or SB Acoustics drivers. On the other hand, you know that the Amigas are a proved, well reviewed design.
Here's a discussion on this Forum to either confuse or suggest options:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/diy-2-way-design-for-a-bookshelf.332728/
Geoff
I don't wish to confuse things, but there might be better value projects out there which use, for example, locally available Peerless HDS or SB Acoustics drivers. On the other hand, you know that the Amigas are a proved, well reviewed design.
Here's a discussion on this Forum to either confuse or suggest options:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/diy-2-way-design-for-a-bookshelf.332728/
Geoff
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Thanks for the replies.
I'm not set on any design or drivers in particular, just hoping to stick to drivers available in Australia.
I'm still very much in the planning phase Geoff so I will definitely have a look through that thread for other options. Agree that the prices of Dayton drivers are fairly painful at the moment and there may be better options.
Given that I'd probably be using the speakers without a sub initially I guess I might be better off looking at something with a ported box to get some decent bass.
I am curious as to what the motivation for Paul Carmodys recommendation to use a larger than "optimal" box for a sealed Amiga would be though. I guess he assumes that in that context you're pairing them with a sub so shifting F3 up is not a big deal?
I'm not set on any design or drivers in particular, just hoping to stick to drivers available in Australia.
I'm still very much in the planning phase Geoff so I will definitely have a look through that thread for other options. Agree that the prices of Dayton drivers are fairly painful at the moment and there may be better options.
Given that I'd probably be using the speakers without a sub initially I guess I might be better off looking at something with a ported box to get some decent bass.
I am curious as to what the motivation for Paul Carmodys recommendation to use a larger than "optimal" box for a sealed Amiga would be though. I guess he assumes that in that context you're pairing them with a sub so shifting F3 up is not a big deal?
I am curious as to what the motivation for Paul Carmodys recommendation to use a larger than "optimal" box for a sealed Amiga would be though.
From my very limited knowledge of cabinets, there's not really an 'ideal' cabinet size for drivers - the designers usually make some some trade-offs or compromises depending on what they want to achieve.
For other ideas, of which you'll get many, I've done a test build of Michael Chua's "Lark SM" and really liked the sound; roughly the same size as the cabinet for Paul Carmody's "Hitmaker" monitors. However, the driver cost is most reasonable: about A$160. The crossover - which Michael will share with you for a small fee - has more parts than the Amiga but you'd still come out ahead.
The SMs, as suggested by their name, are for near field use; unfortunately, we still get the SBpfcs with the difficult to mount shape.
Heaps of other options out there, depending on budget, room size, music preferences etc.
Geoff
From my very limited knowledge of cabinets, there's not really an 'ideal' cabinet size for drivers - the designers usually make some some trade-offs or compromises depending on what they want to achieve.
For other ideas, of which you'll get many, I've done a test build of Michael Chua's "Lark SM" and really liked the sound; roughly the same size as the cabinet for Paul Carmody's "Hitmaker" monitors. However, the driver cost is most reasonable: about A$160. The crossover - which Michael will share with you for a small fee - has more parts than the Amiga but you'd still come out ahead.
The SMs, as suggested by their name, are for near field use; unfortunately, we still get the SBpfcs with the difficult to mount shape.
Heaps of other options out there, depending on budget, room size, music preferences etc.
Geoff
Only a suggestion - depends on what sort of size and sound you're after.
As far as I know, locally available drivers are limited to SB, Peerless/Vifa/Tymphany, Dayton and Visaton. Visaton prices have gone up a lot recently, unfortunately. Wagner also sells Daichi but I've never seen a build with them; Jaycar sell the 'Response' brand but I haven't seen any projects with them; I think that's just about it.
Within those brands you will still get a pretty good range of project options.
To my ears, the RS180P drivers sound excellent: detailed and clear, but will still cope with less well recorded music. I can't take any credit as the speakers and cabinet were designed by Curt Campbell. MTMs with Morel tweeters, too large for your purposes and the driver cost is higher than the Amigas.
The Lark SMs sound very good, very smooth mids and highs but won't play loud or as deep in the bass as the MTMs, which is fine for smaller rooms. By way of comparison, Paul's Classix II will go deeper in the bass but midrange is not as clear as the Larks. They use the Dayton DC160s and the same Vifa tweeter as the Larks.
Geoff
As far as I know, locally available drivers are limited to SB, Peerless/Vifa/Tymphany, Dayton and Visaton. Visaton prices have gone up a lot recently, unfortunately. Wagner also sells Daichi but I've never seen a build with them; Jaycar sell the 'Response' brand but I haven't seen any projects with them; I think that's just about it.
Within those brands you will still get a pretty good range of project options.
To my ears, the RS180P drivers sound excellent: detailed and clear, but will still cope with less well recorded music. I can't take any credit as the speakers and cabinet were designed by Curt Campbell. MTMs with Morel tweeters, too large for your purposes and the driver cost is higher than the Amigas.
The Lark SMs sound very good, very smooth mids and highs but won't play loud or as deep in the bass as the MTMs, which is fine for smaller rooms. By way of comparison, Paul's Classix II will go deeper in the bass but midrange is not as clear as the Larks. They use the Dayton DC160s and the same Vifa tweeter as the Larks.
Geoff
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As yet another example of the sort of thing you might consider, I found this project with the Peerless 830875 HDS ($99):
https://www.rob-elder.com/LouC/speakers/VP/Veeper.html
On older project by a respected designer and of course I haven't heard it or read any build reviews. The tweeter is $79:
https://www.wagneronline.com.au/vif...audio-speakers-pa/ne25vts-04-27150/959625/pd/)
The driver cost is getting up there, but.
For crossover parts I use Speakerbug in Brsibane and I get my MDF CNC cut from Allboards in Thomastown Melbourne.
Or you could just buy a complete kit, this one uses SB Acoustics drivers, but is the cabinet too big?
http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/lsk-m6s-monitor-kit~23797
Geoff
https://www.rob-elder.com/LouC/speakers/VP/Veeper.html
On older project by a respected designer and of course I haven't heard it or read any build reviews. The tweeter is $79:
https://www.wagneronline.com.au/vif...audio-speakers-pa/ne25vts-04-27150/959625/pd/)
The driver cost is getting up there, but.
For crossover parts I use Speakerbug in Brsibane and I get my MDF CNC cut from Allboards in Thomastown Melbourne.
Or you could just buy a complete kit, this one uses SB Acoustics drivers, but is the cabinet too big?
http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/lsk-m6s-monitor-kit~23797
Geoff
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Here's a build video about the Amigas, but it's useful for anything else, really.
If you provide your room size, listening tastes, budget etc people will be able to give you some more ideas. One of the issues with DIY is that you don't know how the speakers will sound, I suggest looking at projects where there have been multiple builds, good reviews or endorsements from competitions, etc.
Geoff
If you provide your room size, listening tastes, budget etc people will be able to give you some more ideas. One of the issues with DIY is that you don't know how the speakers will sound, I suggest looking at projects where there have been multiple builds, good reviews or endorsements from competitions, etc.
Geoff
Considering this is a multi-way forum, I'm going out on a limb. Have you looked into any of the Mark Audio drivers/builds? There is a number of them available and I believe the drivers are available worldwide. They can be used as a single driver build, a woofer-assisted build, or a tweeter-assisted build.
On that theme, SB Acoustics makes co-axial drivers and has published suggested crossovers for those on its website. The SB16 version is about $90 here.
http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/sb16pfc25-4-coax-sb-acoustics-6.5-mid-woofer-pfc-c
There are arguments pro and con co-axial speakers and I've not heard one.
Geoff
http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/sb16pfc25-4-coax-sb-acoustics-6.5-mid-woofer-pfc-c
There are arguments pro and con co-axial speakers and I've not heard one.
Geoff
This project is more of an indulgence than a need so I don't really have any specifics. I do know that if I build floorstanders (as much as I'd like to build a pair) they'll end up in the garage as there isn't realistically space for them. Some bookshelf format speaker would get to live in my smallish 3.6x3.0 home office.
I do listen to a lot of different musical styles and do some recording etc as a hobby so something with a fairly neutral frequency response would probably be best.
I'd prefer to stick with traditional multi way rather than full range or co-axial for this build.
I haven't seen these, I'll definitely look them up. Thanks for the suggestion.
If you're after neutral response, the Lark SMs might work for you in that sized room, or you could look at Paul Carmody's "Hitmakers" which use a Dayton DA175 woofer (A$95 ea) and the same Vifa BC25TG tweeter as the Larks. Paul designed them as studio monitors but from looking at various chat fora, they will work in smaller rooms.
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/hitmakers
I also built an MTM which placed very well at a "Best Iron Driver" speaker design competition a few years ago, it had a neutral frequency response and sounded really good. However, the cabinet might be too big for you. It used Peerless 830656 mids and a Vifa XT25 tweeter.
Geoff
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/hitmakers
I also built an MTM which placed very well at a "Best Iron Driver" speaker design competition a few years ago, it had a neutral frequency response and sounded really good. However, the cabinet might be too big for you. It used Peerless 830656 mids and a Vifa XT25 tweeter.
Geoff