I'm trying to select parts for an in-stock Aikido model / tube selection to eventually get to be used as a preamp for an F4 build. Eventual requirements are for gain of 20db, and 22v out.
In the meantime I don't require so much gain, it will just be used with an Adcom. I don't want to be swapping voltages over and over or different sockets, but
like the idea of having the option of trying different tubes, and even switching between output capacitors which is available with some models.
Any suggestions on what will get me to the first goal and leave me with options to experiment with?
Ordering from glassware, based on current in stock items or those marked as a few weeks or less.
In the meantime I don't require so much gain, it will just be used with an Adcom. I don't want to be swapping voltages over and over or different sockets, but
like the idea of having the option of trying different tubes, and even switching between output capacitors which is available with some models.
Any suggestions on what will get me to the first goal and leave me with options to experiment with?
Ordering from glassware, based on current in stock items or those marked as a few weeks or less.
I added a feedback network to mine to give selectable gain. Works great. I have 12ax7 in the gain stage but if you use a lower mu tube you can apply less nfb. I also use it to drive an F4.
Here's s screen shot of a simulation for it listing the specs of some different combinations of feedback resistors in blue and their affect on Zin/Zout etc.
Here's s screen shot of a simulation for it listing the specs of some different combinations of feedback resistors in blue and their affect on Zin/Zout etc.
Attachments
On the preamp I have a switch between 18, 24 and 33db. In the simulation I run them one at a time. I don't remember exactly what resistor values I went with but I could remove the cover and check them out if you like.
20 will probably be not enough for the F4...you may want to look at higher gain tube and tube roll your input between amps.
You could try switching between 6n1p for high gain and 6cg7 for lower gain and not have to mess with cathode resistors.
You could try switching between 6n1p for high gain and 6cg7 for lower gain and not have to mess with cathode resistors.
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I currently run 6N1P's up front and 6CG7's in the back.
I have run 6CG7's all the way around at first with bypassed cathode resistors.
I tried 6DJ8's up front didn't quite sound right as a drop in.
The 6N1P's have the gain of the 6DJ8 but retained the midbass punch in my application.
And mine drives an F4 quite happily to 25W.
I have run 6CG7's all the way around at first with bypassed cathode resistors.
I tried 6DJ8's up front didn't quite sound right as a drop in.
The 6N1P's have the gain of the 6DJ8 but retained the midbass punch in my application.
And mine drives an F4 quite happily to 25W.
Yup...6dj8 works good but you have to pay close attention to the plate to heater voltage max...its relatively low. 6922 is another good high gain option.
Another option would be octal 6sl7 input and 6sn7 output for lots of gain, I run this as the front end of a Moskido and it really rocks. You could run 6sl7 all around but would not be enough for the F4.
Unfortunately my main source for my primary listening setup is a zone 2 from my HT amp and it must only put out 500mV or so.
If the gain is appropriate for the F4 will depend a lot on your source. 2V CD player into 20db preamp into F4 might be OK....if your source is in the milivolt range it will not.
Another option would be octal 6sl7 input and 6sn7 output for lots of gain, I run this as the front end of a Moskido and it really rocks. You could run 6sl7 all around but would not be enough for the F4.
Unfortunately my main source for my primary listening setup is a zone 2 from my HT amp and it must only put out 500mV or so.
If the gain is appropriate for the F4 will depend a lot on your source. 2V CD player into 20db preamp into F4 might be OK....if your source is in the milivolt range it will not.
Here is the basic order I have put together for peer review. I'm new to this so may have errors in choices.
12AX7, Tungsol Reissue $14.95 + $2 each balanced triodes
Sovtek 6N1P $9.95, balanced triodes add $2 each
will consider 6cg7 tubes as well for use with the Adcom, haven't checked requirements.
$58 plus shipping from tubedepot
The following items from the glass-ware store...
AkidoNoval $36.
resistors for Aidkido PCB with many redundant values:? do i need?
1% 1/2 w metal film & 3w metal-oxide +15.
10x Ceramic PCB mount tube sockets +$20.
Cornell Dubilier propylene film capacitors +$17.
Switch, 4 pol, 4 pos, non-shorting & pcb for switching between output capacitors +$12.
Switch, 4 pol, 3 pos….. for switching between input sources +$12.
3M double sided tape +$1.
tilt control from glass-ware +$39
AC switch +12 (this does both transformers for PS-14?)
ps14 $31
nichicon 47uf 450v ps capacitors
2.5” tall heatsink
Subtotal from glass-ware $226
+65 in tubes
under $300, but no attenuator…
I would rather have kept it at 200v, but this is all I could accomplish in one day.
Even a DC option or Low Voltage would have been nice but a new class of tubes to ask about.
This would be done with the feedback loops because it would have similar gain to the first example provided, will try similar to suggestion.
I wend with the 6N1P because of the mention of retention of mid-bass punch, and the Tungsol reissue 12ax7 just sounded like a good mix based on a comparison of tubes at tube depot. Don't know if any of this is correct.
Haven't shopped for a variac, trying to think if I have anything around that will work but probably not. Will a 3A be enough? First started looking for a 15amp back many years ago and everything was very expensive back then. Now more imports... Maybe borrow one...
12AX7, Tungsol Reissue $14.95 + $2 each balanced triodes
Sovtek 6N1P $9.95, balanced triodes add $2 each
will consider 6cg7 tubes as well for use with the Adcom, haven't checked requirements.
$58 plus shipping from tubedepot
The following items from the glass-ware store...
AkidoNoval $36.
resistors for Aidkido PCB with many redundant values:? do i need?
1% 1/2 w metal film & 3w metal-oxide +15.
10x Ceramic PCB mount tube sockets +$20.
Cornell Dubilier propylene film capacitors +$17.
Switch, 4 pol, 4 pos, non-shorting & pcb for switching between output capacitors +$12.
Switch, 4 pol, 3 pos….. for switching between input sources +$12.
3M double sided tape +$1.
tilt control from glass-ware +$39
AC switch +12 (this does both transformers for PS-14?)
ps14 $31
nichicon 47uf 450v ps capacitors
2.5” tall heatsink
Subtotal from glass-ware $226
+65 in tubes
under $300, but no attenuator…
I would rather have kept it at 200v, but this is all I could accomplish in one day.
Even a DC option or Low Voltage would have been nice but a new class of tubes to ask about.
This would be done with the feedback loops because it would have similar gain to the first example provided, will try similar to suggestion.
I wend with the 6N1P because of the mention of retention of mid-bass punch, and the Tungsol reissue 12ax7 just sounded like a good mix based on a comparison of tubes at tube depot. Don't know if any of this is correct.
Haven't shopped for a variac, trying to think if I have anything around that will work but probably not. Will a 3A be enough? First started looking for a 15amp back many years ago and everything was very expensive back then. Now more imports... Maybe borrow one...
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Items look fine but what is 'tilt control' ?
Also, I used the ps1 instead of ps14 to get the solid state regulated B+. Not sure if that's completely necessary but thought I would mention.
Are you asking about a variac for the initial power on? I doubt if you need one since the psu is all on a pc board. Just be careful with component installation and triple check everything and you should be fine. I've built 3 of these psu's and didn't have any issues. I have a variac but didn't use it.
Regarding the ac switch yes it will switch the primaries of both xformers.
Also, I used the ps1 instead of ps14 to get the solid state regulated B+. Not sure if that's completely necessary but thought I would mention.
Are you asking about a variac for the initial power on? I doubt if you need one since the psu is all on a pc board. Just be careful with component installation and triple check everything and you should be fine. I've built 3 of these psu's and didn't have any issues. I have a variac but didn't use it.
Regarding the ac switch yes it will switch the primaries of both xformers.
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All depends on the speakers and room size I guess. I use the 18db gain setting on the aikido with an F4 driving 89db speakers and my volume control is at about 30% at normal fairly loud listening level. 50% would drive me out of the room.
Tilt control, a form of passive tone control -
Tilt Control
New GlassWare Tilt Control Kit
I wound't mind a bass-boost circuit as mentioned in the blog... and the ability to bypass all controls. There is an active tone control circuit that I don't see mentioned here, may be more suited for guitar amps.
All of the simulator software seems to be written for windows, I have a hard time believing the same doesn't exist for Linux for OSX. Don't know what it would really tell me.
Just went with the PS-14 because it was suggested on the page. PS-1 has more details about how it comes with instructions for heater voltage.
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Switched to the Octal design, and still the PS-14. Haven't ordered tubes yet, but current plan is to use (4) 6SN7 , thought I read on the tubecad blogs it would give gain of about 10. Will use it as a preamp for an Adcom while I recover financially.
Suggestions on transformer for the PS-14?
I would like to do it as simple as possible, and worry about upgrades in the future when I have a functional pre-amp.
Suggestions on transformer for the PS-14?
I would like to do it as simple as possible, and worry about upgrades in the future when I have a functional pre-amp.
have slipped into despair , just wish i would have thrown a bunch of cash for a crappy AVR at this point. would be less likely to have an annoyed wife and piles and piles of pcb's, bags of parts which i'm considering throwing in the trash.
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-T261G6 ?
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-T272FX ?
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-T261G6 ?
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-T272FX ?
Is this your first build?
The AIKIDO is a great project, but if it is your first build, start slowly, populate the main pcb first - see how you go with that, once that's done, organise the transformer and case, get the drilling done. Also, probably best to build the main pcb first, then test it before worrying about selector switches and feedback networks etc, these can come later.
The AIKIDO is a great project, but if it is your first build, start slowly, populate the main pcb first - see how you go with that, once that's done, organise the transformer and case, get the drilling done. Also, probably best to build the main pcb first, then test it before worrying about selector switches and feedback networks etc, these can come later.
Dont rule out Antek on a toroidal - nice to have a flat footprint and they have dual voltage secondaries.
VERY fast shipping and good prices.
Something like this perhaps
VERY fast shipping and good prices.
Something like this perhaps
Yes, first real audio build.
I know the designer isn't a "one way to do things" kind of person by any means, it would simply be nice if there were a "one way for beginners" type of guide.
I've made a few choices that were not for beginner builds and now that I have a current guide I'll see what to leave in, what to leave out and what to complicate things with.
B+ voltage, for a line amplifier... even keeping 6SN7 all around, there are options - and might want to have the option for the simplest of tube changes... if simply dropping in 6LS7 input tubes is even possible... or keep to the "one way for beginner" philosophy. So, is it 280v only - no more, no less?
I see 300v listed on an older guide I found online for a previous board revision.
At the same time I see 170v listed as an option for the same tubes.
Turn a page, and as a headphone amp, raw B+ 300-350v is the range, with 250v at the tubes.
In his user guide he mentions torroidial transformers only as a last resort - or something to that effect. I don't care too much about chassis design size at this point. If I need to figure out shielding it can be done later, the chassis will be built around what I have, not trying to see what fits shielded or not within a box. Fortunately I have friends with machine shops that will trade for beer and more scrap stainless and aluminum around than I have a use for.
Then running through the list of parts I see no value assigned for certain parts, but fortunately in the bag of parts there is one provided.
There was a hold-up with shipping because of a wait on what I think are the C5 capacitors, and with a sharpie the voltage and "Nichicon" were crossed out. A higher voltage part supplied. It isn't listed as a part that is "high-quality...essential". It is the item that was holding up shipping.
I don't have a guide for the AC power switch, just sort of hoping one of the options is for heater voltage only.
I know the designer isn't a "one way to do things" kind of person by any means, it would simply be nice if there were a "one way for beginners" type of guide.
I've made a few choices that were not for beginner builds and now that I have a current guide I'll see what to leave in, what to leave out and what to complicate things with.
B+ voltage, for a line amplifier... even keeping 6SN7 all around, there are options - and might want to have the option for the simplest of tube changes... if simply dropping in 6LS7 input tubes is even possible... or keep to the "one way for beginner" philosophy. So, is it 280v only - no more, no less?
I see 300v listed on an older guide I found online for a previous board revision.
At the same time I see 170v listed as an option for the same tubes.
Turn a page, and as a headphone amp, raw B+ 300-350v is the range, with 250v at the tubes.
In his user guide he mentions torroidial transformers only as a last resort - or something to that effect. I don't care too much about chassis design size at this point. If I need to figure out shielding it can be done later, the chassis will be built around what I have, not trying to see what fits shielded or not within a box. Fortunately I have friends with machine shops that will trade for beer and more scrap stainless and aluminum around than I have a use for.
Then running through the list of parts I see no value assigned for certain parts, but fortunately in the bag of parts there is one provided.
There was a hold-up with shipping because of a wait on what I think are the C5 capacitors, and with a sharpie the voltage and "Nichicon" were crossed out. A higher voltage part supplied. It isn't listed as a part that is "high-quality...essential". It is the item that was holding up shipping.
I don't have a guide for the AC power switch, just sort of hoping one of the options is for heater voltage only.
I see no reason with an octal you would be tube rolling. You can't interchange 6sn7 with 6sl7 unless you change the cathode resistors. Going with 6sn7 / 6sn7 will make a very nice preamp. If you really want to tube roll then go with a noval board.
B+ should work fine anywhere from 250-300vdc. I can't think of anything else that is variable to the aikido circuit other than some power resistors.
4 6sn7 will run let's assume 10mA each for a total of 40mA. This can help you determine how much voltage drop you need in your PSU. Let's say you want 250 vdc finished b+. You use a 200vac transformer that will yield let's say 280vdc. (AC*1.41) now you need to drop 30v in 40mA. Ohms law says r=v/I = 30/.04 = 750 ohm dropping resistor.
B+ should work fine anywhere from 250-300vdc. I can't think of anything else that is variable to the aikido circuit other than some power resistors.
4 6sn7 will run let's assume 10mA each for a total of 40mA. This can help you determine how much voltage drop you need in your PSU. Let's say you want 250 vdc finished b+. You use a 200vac transformer that will yield let's say 280vdc. (AC*1.41) now you need to drop 30v in 40mA. Ohms law says r=v/I = 30/.04 = 750 ohm dropping resistor.
https://www.edcorusa.com/xpwr001
Power transformer for a 120V, 60Hz. line to 500V (250-0-250) at 100mA center tapped, 6.3V (3.15-0-3.15) at 1A center tapped and 5V at 2A.
?
looked at first antek solution
brain hurts...
... ok, wrote the above last night
going off topic if there is such a thing but can't decide if I should start another thread on power supply questions. imagine everyone doing a first build has similar questions.
was trying to understand how DC is taken, what VAC means.
from 3 days (really, I couldn't see trees by yesterday morning - focus has been on monitors )
one has a transformer, VAC is across it, but only half of that can be used? this is where i have some confusion because it doesn't match the suggestions. 500v as listed in the transformer above is 250-0-250, and only one half of that is used to convert to DC (... or not, as I interpret the suggestions).
Not having too much difficulty understanding of the Aikido board population, but the PS I don't get. Off to get some 99.9 isopropyl before going in for a procedure that will leave me full of pain meds for a day or two. When my head is clear again I will proceed with main board but would like to get the transformer ordered and on the way.
Power transformer for a 120V, 60Hz. line to 500V (250-0-250) at 100mA center tapped, 6.3V (3.15-0-3.15) at 1A center tapped and 5V at 2A.
?
looked at first antek solution
brain hurts...
... ok, wrote the above last night
going off topic if there is such a thing but can't decide if I should start another thread on power supply questions. imagine everyone doing a first build has similar questions.
was trying to understand how DC is taken, what VAC means.
from 3 days (really, I couldn't see trees by yesterday morning - focus has been on monitors )
one has a transformer, VAC is across it, but only half of that can be used? this is where i have some confusion because it doesn't match the suggestions. 500v as listed in the transformer above is 250-0-250, and only one half of that is used to convert to DC (... or not, as I interpret the suggestions).
Not having too much difficulty understanding of the Aikido board population, but the PS I don't get. Off to get some 99.9 isopropyl before going in for a procedure that will leave me full of pain meds for a day or two. When my head is clear again I will proceed with main board but would like to get the transformer ordered and on the way.
That's not what I meant to type... I meant those transformers stating VCT which I didn't understand 3 days ago and not sure why there isn't more consistency between descriptions.
Center Tapped...
And rectification of that to DC...
PS-14 manual explains, but I'm not able to follow very well because of all of the options.
... I assume there was a time-out for editing the above post - #18
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Select AC switch from glass-ware store PS-14 & Aikido
I ordered the Antec AS-1T230 - 100VA 230V TRANSFORMER with 6.3v windings, feel like I accomplished something this morning by using both manuals to determine how to get 6.3Vdc at the heaters.
Can I use the glassware store "Select AC" switch which turns on the heaters first? I already have it and it has been suggested not to bother. The c1 and c2 shipped with identical values (marked X7R 102K 1KV) and no instructions.
I don't see how it works... There is AC in, with 1-AC and 2-AC pads.
So this requires separate transformer for heaters?
I'm fine with keeping it simple, just means I may need to buy another switch.
maybe the image uploaded...
this is copied from the glassware store:
Product Description
New small, 1.4 by 1.7 inch, PCBs that hold a single rotary switch and allows two transformers to be switched on in a staggered fashion. The three positions are: all transformers off, transformer 1 on and transformer 2 off, and both transformers on. With this setup, you can turn on the heater transformer first, so the tubes are given a chance to heat up, which will create an electron cloud over the cathodes, protecting them from the B+ voltage.
Or you might want to switch on the line-stage amplifier but not the phono preamp, as why wear out the phono stage’s tubes, when you are listening to CDs? The switch uses redundant contacts and offers a 125Vac and 0.6A rating.
I ordered the Antec AS-1T230 - 100VA 230V TRANSFORMER with 6.3v windings, feel like I accomplished something this morning by using both manuals to determine how to get 6.3Vdc at the heaters.
Can I use the glassware store "Select AC" switch which turns on the heaters first? I already have it and it has been suggested not to bother. The c1 and c2 shipped with identical values (marked X7R 102K 1KV) and no instructions.
I don't see how it works... There is AC in, with 1-AC and 2-AC pads.
So this requires separate transformer for heaters?
I'm fine with keeping it simple, just means I may need to buy another switch.
maybe the image uploaded...
this is copied from the glassware store:
Product Description
New small, 1.4 by 1.7 inch, PCBs that hold a single rotary switch and allows two transformers to be switched on in a staggered fashion. The three positions are: all transformers off, transformer 1 on and transformer 2 off, and both transformers on. With this setup, you can turn on the heater transformer first, so the tubes are given a chance to heat up, which will create an electron cloud over the cathodes, protecting them from the B+ voltage.
Or you might want to switch on the line-stage amplifier but not the phono preamp, as why wear out the phono stage’s tubes, when you are listening to CDs? The switch uses redundant contacts and offers a 125Vac and 0.6A rating.
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