Agreed.
Your less than happy listening experience with your system may be caused by the DAC, solid state power amp, speakers, room, room treatment, and loudspeaker positioning.
Or not.
Now you know a reason why some people on the Tubes / Valves threads either design, build, purchase tube power amplifiers, or a combination of that.
Of course there are other reasons to use tube amplifiers.
Get a tube power amp that does not need a preamp if the DAC output is big enough.
You may want to consider crossing over from Solid State to Vacuum Tube power amps.
Or you may not want that.
I remember when one commercial solid state designer wanted to simulate a single characteristic that many tube amplifiers had . . . limited damping factor.
The designer put a 1 Ohm power resistor in series between the amplifier output circuit and
the (+) 5-way binding post.
As a bonus, that probably made the amplifier more happy driving some really low impedance speakers.
If you are not familiar with that amplifier, look for reviews of the solid state Sunfire Power Amplifier.
Or you might consider those solid state amplifiers that are said to sound like tube amplifiers;
or the digital processing products that modify the signal to make solid state amplifiers sound like tube amplifiers.
As always, "All Generalizations Have Exceptions"
Your Listening Pleasure May Vary.
Happy Listening
Your less than happy listening experience with your system may be caused by the DAC, solid state power amp, speakers, room, room treatment, and loudspeaker positioning.
Or not.
Now you know a reason why some people on the Tubes / Valves threads either design, build, purchase tube power amplifiers, or a combination of that.
Of course there are other reasons to use tube amplifiers.
Get a tube power amp that does not need a preamp if the DAC output is big enough.
You may want to consider crossing over from Solid State to Vacuum Tube power amps.
Or you may not want that.
I remember when one commercial solid state designer wanted to simulate a single characteristic that many tube amplifiers had . . . limited damping factor.
The designer put a 1 Ohm power resistor in series between the amplifier output circuit and
the (+) 5-way binding post.
As a bonus, that probably made the amplifier more happy driving some really low impedance speakers.
If you are not familiar with that amplifier, look for reviews of the solid state Sunfire Power Amplifier.
Or you might consider those solid state amplifiers that are said to sound like tube amplifiers;
or the digital processing products that modify the signal to make solid state amplifiers sound like tube amplifiers.
As always, "All Generalizations Have Exceptions"
Your Listening Pleasure May Vary.
Happy Listening
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Depends on the speaker system, whether a tube power amplifier will work well or not.
The better tube amp designs do have a low enough output impedance for that not to be
a factor in the sound. The LS3/5A does sound best with a good tube amplifier, as do ESLs
like Martin Logan or Quad.
The better tube amp designs do have a low enough output impedance for that not to be
a factor in the sound. The LS3/5A does sound best with a good tube amplifier, as do ESLs
like Martin Logan or Quad.
For playing LPs
AR ES1 turntable/Grace 707II arm/Shure cartridge with JICO stylus
my design ss phono stage, 10k switched metal film resistor volume control,
my design EL34 tube power amplifier, LS3/5A, Kef LS50, and Martin Logan ESL.
my speakers are troels gravesen design. jenzen next they are 87 db and minimum 5,5 ohm. so a 80 to 100 watt tube power should work . But it costs way more than an aikido line stage
Yes it would.
Your line magnetic 502ca DAC has 12AU7 output stage tubes. Have you tried a different brand of tubes?
Have you ever tried a different DAC, power amp, or speakers in your system, to see if that makes
a difference in the problems? Is there harshness or brightness?
Your line magnetic 502ca DAC has 12AU7 output stage tubes. Have you tried a different brand of tubes?
Have you ever tried a different DAC, power amp, or speakers in your system, to see if that makes
a difference in the problems? Is there harshness or brightness?
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tried som different tubes in the dac. know there is genalix tubes there. only tried cheapis integrated.
If my bank account where bigger I would maybe go a different route. sometime I will try only pot.
If my bank account where bigger I would maybe go a different route. sometime I will try only pot.
Sorry,
I went and re-edited my Post # 22, after Posts # 23, 24, and 25.
It seems like I find more to say (usually too much).
I feel like I am too easy to please when it comes to the sound of my systems.
Most of my listening is near-field at the computer. That means it only requires a little power from the amplifier.
It also means the direct to reflected sound ratio is different versus in the average listening room.
I use a pair of Usher S-520 speakers, and mono-block amplifiers that use an LM337 current sink for the 12AY7 phase splitter, and Beam Power tubes in UL for the push pull output. Other than the UL Screen to Plate feedback, there is no negative feedback.
I am enjoying the music. I listen to the music, not the system.
We have a local club here. Before the pandemic, we did Audio Crawls, to listen to each others systems.
Some of us learn the various combinations of products that sound pleasing to us.
I hope you can get a system that allows you to enjoy the music.
I went and re-edited my Post # 22, after Posts # 23, 24, and 25.
It seems like I find more to say (usually too much).
I feel like I am too easy to please when it comes to the sound of my systems.
Most of my listening is near-field at the computer. That means it only requires a little power from the amplifier.
It also means the direct to reflected sound ratio is different versus in the average listening room.
I use a pair of Usher S-520 speakers, and mono-block amplifiers that use an LM337 current sink for the 12AY7 phase splitter, and Beam Power tubes in UL for the push pull output. Other than the UL Screen to Plate feedback, there is no negative feedback.
I am enjoying the music. I listen to the music, not the system.
We have a local club here. Before the pandemic, we did Audio Crawls, to listen to each others systems.
Some of us learn the various combinations of products that sound pleasing to us.
I hope you can get a system that allows you to enjoy the music.
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Joined 2009
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As long as I can remember, these threads always play out the same. Somebody is keen on a preamp project. Most everyone else explains nicely that they shouldn’t bother. They explain modern sources need no gain, tubes are not hi-fi if they are being used for their ‘sound’ etc. It’s a sad tale.
I say different - Build a preamp!
We’re here for the fun of it. Heck, I’m building a preamp myself. I don’t need one at all. I just want to make one. For years I’ve been happy with just a volume pot. Everyone said that’s what I should do. To heck with everyone 😀 sometimes you want to do a project.
I say different - Build a preamp!
We’re here for the fun of it. Heck, I’m building a preamp myself. I don’t need one at all. I just want to make one. For years I’ve been happy with just a volume pot. Everyone said that’s what I should do. To heck with everyone 😀 sometimes you want to do a project.
I made my own circuit boards... One for 12**7, one for 6N1P/6DJ8/6CG7 etc, and one for 6N3P. I have some of each left if you want one. It's based on Aikido but without the Aikido "mojo". It's simply an actively loaded triode preamp/buffer, and it can drive High Z headphones, too.
Or, get a set of old speakers that have higher efficiency, and build a low to modest power tube amp.
The possibilities are endless.
Yes, a tube preamp is the least expensive, and requires the least change to the system.
Go ahead and build one . . .
. . . and then watch out, you may get the "Bug", and want to build a tube power amp.
The possibilities are endless.
Yes, a tube preamp is the least expensive, and requires the least change to the system.
Go ahead and build one . . .
. . . and then watch out, you may get the "Bug", and want to build a tube power amp.
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Joined 2009
Paid Member
by the way, if you like SS power amps, the Pass F4 is a beast with plenty of acolades. It has no gain itself, but an Aikido preamp would suit it very nicely.
I agree wholeheartedly with Bigun!! I have built exactly what you are talking about Aikido pre into SS amp. I have been using that type of setup for over 20 years with other equipment and can tell you it is an excellent choice for sound quality. The input impedance of the SS amp in my example is 38-40k ohm. No problems! The Aikido circuits output stage is a buffer stage and can drive the solid state input amp. In my opinion a preamp is a must in my systems for switching control. So listen to Bigun and myself, tune out the naysayers and build that Aikido. You'll love it.
Great advice on Pass amp from Bigun. I am running Aikido with 6SN7's into Pass A40 and sounds great!
Thank you for the support! wich aikido board have you used? can you give me a name ore link?
Of course one can build whatever one wants but still extra/high gain is not the thing that is needed. For some reason "source selection" and "volume control" are confused with "preamp". I tend to solve issues in such setups, in most cases they are self created. No one needs a preamp with (thankfully ) standardized sources in this day and age, many do need source selection and volume control though. So a buffer or low gain stage is best suited in all aspects. In practice one often sees preamps created around a random chosen tube with absurd high output impedance, way too small output caps (so loss of bass) and way too high output level. A sad tale indeed as the now introduced issues must be solved by again changing or adding other stuff 🙂 Measuring, calculation and taking standards into account are 666 in those circles as well. Only a few weeks ago I solved such a riddle with way too much gain.... where the signal was attenuated to half the level after the first too high gain stage..... and then again was amplified in the next too high gain stage... to be attenuated to half the level again...how people can build such stuff is beyond me.
It might be that the preamp is absolutely needed, well if it is like that then make sure it works according a set model of input and output impedances and gain/signal levels that comply with the sources and power amplifiers. To my surprise these are often unknown terms for builders of such devices. They often "just do something". Well do it right then.
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Joined 2009
Paid Member
Also,
I don’t see why feedback can’t be a switched option on the ‘Aikido’ preamp, perhaps similar to how Broskie has implemented feedback on the CCDA preamp circuit, taking the output after the output capacitor and returning it to the input grid with a series source resistor. This would allow a reduced gain mode, reduce further the output impedance. It’s not as pure as a passive preamp and there are things to worry about with this approach BUT I know my ‘music’ has already been “very well travelled” through unknown electronics before it reaches me so I don’t lose sleep over a couple of valves in my soon-to-be preamp.
It’s worth giving some attention to the power supply too.
I don’t see why feedback can’t be a switched option on the ‘Aikido’ preamp, perhaps similar to how Broskie has implemented feedback on the CCDA preamp circuit, taking the output after the output capacitor and returning it to the input grid with a series source resistor. This would allow a reduced gain mode, reduce further the output impedance. It’s not as pure as a passive preamp and there are things to worry about with this approach BUT I know my ‘music’ has already been “very well travelled” through unknown electronics before it reaches me so I don’t lose sleep over a couple of valves in my soon-to-be preamp.
It’s worth giving some attention to the power supply too.
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