Hey everyone,
I'm new to the forum but have been diving quite deep into speaker design resources, including this awesome community! I've been soaking up knowledge from your posts, YouTube tutorials and to kickstart my first build, I've been experimenting with some AI help to develop a concept. I'm eager to get your expert feedback—always good to have a human reality check on those AI ideas! 🙂 This will be my first proper speaker project, though I did build some basic car speaker based boxes with my dad when I was a kid.
My Goal: A versatile DJ monitor system that can handle both home listening and small house parties with powerful bass, clear highs, and the flexibility to switch between sitting and standing listening heights.
Main Challenges:
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this concept. All insights are welcome!
Here are some first simple sketches of the system:
Seated
Standing
12" - Subwoofer model VituixCAD
8" - Closed top model VituixCAD
Inspiration
I'm new to the forum but have been diving quite deep into speaker design resources, including this awesome community! I've been soaking up knowledge from your posts, YouTube tutorials and to kickstart my first build, I've been experimenting with some AI help to develop a concept. I'm eager to get your expert feedback—always good to have a human reality check on those AI ideas! 🙂 This will be my first proper speaker project, though I did build some basic car speaker based boxes with my dad when I was a kid.
My Goal: A versatile DJ monitor system that can handle both home listening and small house parties with powerful bass, clear highs, and the flexibility to switch between sitting and standing listening heights.
Main Challenges:
- Balancing relatively compact size with the ability to deliver impactful low-end for electronic music genres.
- Being able to cover a wide listening area and fill a room of around 25m2 with sound.
- Have a modular system where the top's can reach low enough to be used on their own.
- System: 2 x 2-way closed top boxes + 2 x ported subwoofers
- Amplification: Hypex FusionAmp FA253 with built-in DSP (easy plug & play DJ mixer)
- DSP Presets: Flat, Warm (for tops only), and Subwoofer Integrated
- Target Tuning Frequency: 45Hz (tops only), 25-30Hz (with subs)
- Sound Signature: Primarily flat, with a warm DSP option for versatility
- Aesthetics: Inspired by the clean and modern designs of Newfidelity J.J 8.1 and Ojas speakers. (see inspiration below)
- Subwoofer: Scan-Speak Discovery 30W/4558T00 (12") - Data sheet
- Mid/Bass: Scan-Speak Discovery 22W-4534G00 (8") - Data sheet
- Tweeter: Faital Pro HF108R (1") - Data sheet
- Waveguide: Eighteen Sound XT1086 - Data sheet
- Amplifier: Hypex FA253 - Specifications
- Subwoofer to Tops (80-100 Hz)
- Mid/Bass to Tweeter (2-3 kHz)
- PA Systems: Too bulky, aesthetically unappealing for home use, and often lacking in high-fidelity sound quality.
- Studio Monitors: While sonically impressive, they typically lack the loudness, bass extension, and wide dispersion needed for the intended use.
- Direct stacking on the subs for seated listening. (Probably will use them in this position most of the time)
- Distance rods for standing DJ monitor height.
- Wall/ceiling mounting as a potential future option.
- Does the driver selection seem well-suited to the goals?
- Will this amplifier work well for this idea? (Is matching 4 ohm and 8 ohm drivers a problem?)
- I've used subtle low shelf filters in the VituixCAD models to extend the low frequency range a bit. Is this similar to what is possible within the Hypex Filter Design software?
- Any concerns about the waveguide choice? (if so, what would be better options?)
- Any other suggestions or alternative components worth exploring?
- Check your feedback 🙂
- Detailed design of cabinets in Sketch Up
- Learn more about the Hypex Filter Design software
- Build cabinets
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this concept. All insights are welcome!
Here are some first simple sketches of the system:
Seated
Standing
12" - Subwoofer model VituixCAD
8" - Closed top model VituixCAD
Inspiration
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For the application in mind, this view doesn’t help you. You should use PA drivers. It will give you 10-15dB extra headroom and more power handling / rugged design. As a DJ you don’t want to be afraid of blowing your expensive but dull HiFi. All of your inspirations seems to use PA drivers. There is nothing wrong with PA drivers. They only sound bad when the system is engineered wrongly (see filters and eq).
I would also consider a simple 2-way system like a 12” stage monitor or coax inspired design.
https://celestion.com/blog/build-this-12-inch-coaxial-floor-monitor/
Further I suggest you use 8 ohm all over. 4 ohm is for automobile.
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@fabricadetabaco thanks for your feedback! I think I should have written that part a bit more clearly. It was meant to explain why I would like to build something myself instead of going for off-the-shelf PA boxes / studio monitors.
I'm definitely not against using PA drivers. I even tried to locate the exact drivers used by New Fidelity within loudspeakerdatabase.com, but I wasn't able to find them. If you have any idea which ones these are I would love to know.
.
When looking at PA drivers, my understanding was that they generally don't have the ability to cover the lower frequency ranges as well as more hifi oriented drivers. Especially in the "smaller" sizes that I would like to use this seems to be a problem. Within PA-type systems this is more of a mid-bass sized driver. Somehow though the people from New Fidelity managed to get this reach out of their small closed box with the 8 inch driver: 40 hz – 18 Khz (-3db). (if their specs are correct). Which is quite impressive, maybe they are heavily relying on DSP within the Hypex amp?
While a dedicated DJ monitor system like the one you suggested could be great for monitoring alone, my goal is a bit broader. I'm aiming to build a versatile speaker system that can handle both detailed and immersive home listening sessions, as well as provide enough power and impact for small house parties.
Not sure if both of those goals are attainable within one system but that's the challenge 🙂
I'm definitely not against using PA drivers. I even tried to locate the exact drivers used by New Fidelity within loudspeakerdatabase.com, but I wasn't able to find them. If you have any idea which ones these are I would love to know.
When looking at PA drivers, my understanding was that they generally don't have the ability to cover the lower frequency ranges as well as more hifi oriented drivers. Especially in the "smaller" sizes that I would like to use this seems to be a problem. Within PA-type systems this is more of a mid-bass sized driver. Somehow though the people from New Fidelity managed to get this reach out of their small closed box with the 8 inch driver: 40 hz – 18 Khz (-3db). (if their specs are correct). Which is quite impressive, maybe they are heavily relying on DSP within the Hypex amp?
While a dedicated DJ monitor system like the one you suggested could be great for monitoring alone, my goal is a bit broader. I'm aiming to build a versatile speaker system that can handle both detailed and immersive home listening sessions, as well as provide enough power and impact for small house parties.
Not sure if both of those goals are attainable within one system but that's the challenge 🙂
First, forget about the Hypex. Use a separate DSP and 2-3 light weight PA amps. You are much more flexible and get better long term reliability with real PA stuff. Also more for your money. THOMANN is your friend. You find anything there, from tweeter to XLR cable.
Also, running power and signal to the tops is not easy and fail safe. Two cables plugged into a Speakon connector and a central power line to your gear/ DJ desk are simpler.
PA speaker chassis seem to give not that much low end, compared to HIFI. This is on paper! In real life a PA speaker will blow away any HIFI bass driver.
You will not need more than 40 Hz for normal music, so if your build has a -3dB point at 35 Hz. concider this really deep for PA use.
In open air bass will just disapear, so you need up to 4 times the bass cabinets which may be enough indoors. Try to understand the half room/ quarter room conditions, which are very important for any mobile PA.
Make yourself comfortable with dB speaker level. If you compare a 88dB 1W/m speaker to a 94 dB one, you need 2 speaker and 2 times the amp power to get the same SPL. So a chassis that delivers 6 dB more is just another world.
Also, running power and signal to the tops is not easy and fail safe. Two cables plugged into a Speakon connector and a central power line to your gear/ DJ desk are simpler.
PA speaker chassis seem to give not that much low end, compared to HIFI. This is on paper! In real life a PA speaker will blow away any HIFI bass driver.
You will not need more than 40 Hz for normal music, so if your build has a -3dB point at 35 Hz. concider this really deep for PA use.
In open air bass will just disapear, so you need up to 4 times the bass cabinets which may be enough indoors. Try to understand the half room/ quarter room conditions, which are very important for any mobile PA.
Make yourself comfortable with dB speaker level. If you compare a 88dB 1W/m speaker to a 94 dB one, you need 2 speaker and 2 times the amp power to get the same SPL. So a chassis that delivers 6 dB more is just another world.
Response-wise the drivers you selected will do the job, but you might be very disappointed with the spl capability, especially at the low end.
You will unlikely achieve worthwhile levels to down to 25/30Hz for EDM bass with a pair of little 150W 12" hifi drivers, but it all depends on the levels you want to play/are able to play at (neighbours!). Ditto for 45Hz using an 8" 75W hifi driver - in both cases you'll probably run out of excursion and power handling very quickly. This isn't to say that your suggestions won't sound very nice, they just might not be loud enough for you.
When testing my 55l sealed 18" subs, a pair run at moderate levels dislodged dust from the vaulted ceiling and would flex the 1/4" plate glass windows, and play low enough to cause feedback on turntables.
To make clean, accurate bass, Move a Lot of Air - GENTLY!
You will unlikely achieve worthwhile levels to down to 25/30Hz for EDM bass with a pair of little 150W 12" hifi drivers, but it all depends on the levels you want to play/are able to play at (neighbours!). Ditto for 45Hz using an 8" 75W hifi driver - in both cases you'll probably run out of excursion and power handling very quickly. This isn't to say that your suggestions won't sound very nice, they just might not be loud enough for you.
When testing my 55l sealed 18" subs, a pair run at moderate levels dislodged dust from the vaulted ceiling and would flex the 1/4" plate glass windows, and play low enough to cause feedback on turntables.
To make clean, accurate bass, Move a Lot of Air - GENTLY!
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For your purpose, any of the JBL 6512 copy horn lenses/waveguides will be your best choice for coverage pattern and overall SQ. There have been countless similar designs from all the big players but in this size format, the JBL has yet to be bettered in measurements for near constant directivity. The ‘trick’ to make them great and if you are doing this in a module format is to mount them in a layered MDF ring as deep as the guide and then fill in the voids from the back with epoxy…..this creates a very dense/dead horn even more so than heavy aluminum with NO ringing associated with aluminum.
Use a pro midbass driver for sure……not even a question on this front.……a hifi 8” midbass will suffers from power compression…..as it should……it’s a critically damped driver. Pro drivers will not.
I don’t think an 8” driver will give you the midbass impact run solo you require though…….10” is the minimum for this purpose IMO and considering your waveguide choices, you have the room under it to fit a 10. The Faital Pro 10HF350 comes to mind as a very easy driver to cross to your 1” compression driver…..it literally has NO breakup above 1k.
Save your back……15” pro neo subwoofer driver all the way……lighter than hifi 12’s and will devastate them on efficiency. As others have said, you don’t need response below 40hz from the driver in your use case.……room gain will give you what you need for EDM and the like.
Use a pro midbass driver for sure……not even a question on this front.……a hifi 8” midbass will suffers from power compression…..as it should……it’s a critically damped driver. Pro drivers will not.
I don’t think an 8” driver will give you the midbass impact run solo you require though…….10” is the minimum for this purpose IMO and considering your waveguide choices, you have the room under it to fit a 10. The Faital Pro 10HF350 comes to mind as a very easy driver to cross to your 1” compression driver…..it literally has NO breakup above 1k.
Save your back……15” pro neo subwoofer driver all the way……lighter than hifi 12’s and will devastate them on efficiency. As others have said, you don’t need response below 40hz from the driver in your use case.……room gain will give you what you need for EDM and the like.
Unfortunately I can't change the title of my post anymore. I should have probably made it more broad and indicate the double use-case of casual listening as well as the occasional party.
@MrKlinky I just noticed that for the 8 inch driver I forgot to update the "signal as power" to the rms value of 70w. So the Xmax becomes a problem quite quickly with this driver. Need to high pass it around 56hz to stay within Xmax limits. Upping the F3 to around 78hz for the compact enclosure I had in mind. This could still be okay when using it together with the subs for the lower frequencies though. If it's possible to get reasonably low with PA style drivers that would probably the way to go, but maybe the combination of compactness, wide frequency response ánd loudness is a bit to much to ask. (I think I came a cross some "law" for this in speaker design)
@MrKlinky what 18 inch drivers did you use for those boxes? 55L seams quite small for such a huge driver? Any more info on this project. Would love to see some more! 🙂
@Turbowatch2 interesting option of using a separate DSP and amplification. Will look into that. My first idea was to have the Hypex integrated in the tops or subs and run a signal cable to the other box. Do you have any suggestions regarding brands I should look into for finding drivers that could produce enough low-end in relatively small enclosures? I've been looking at the drivers at Thomann. Seems 15 inch is needed to get frequency down to 35 -40hz. BTW the speakers won't be used in open-air, only in a relatively small room of around 25m2. Maybe I'm also a bit to focused on reaching really low frequencies. You are probably right in saying that 35 - 40 hz would be low enough. Thanks for that insight. Definitely will look into the loudness side of things, I notice my understanding isn't quite their yet on this topic.
@picowallspeaker do you have any suggestions regarding specific drivers? And do you have any info/link to forum posts on the designs you mentioned? Would love to see more! 🙂
@MrKlinky I just noticed that for the 8 inch driver I forgot to update the "signal as power" to the rms value of 70w. So the Xmax becomes a problem quite quickly with this driver. Need to high pass it around 56hz to stay within Xmax limits. Upping the F3 to around 78hz for the compact enclosure I had in mind. This could still be okay when using it together with the subs for the lower frequencies though. If it's possible to get reasonably low with PA style drivers that would probably the way to go, but maybe the combination of compactness, wide frequency response ánd loudness is a bit to much to ask. (I think I came a cross some "law" for this in speaker design)
@MrKlinky what 18 inch drivers did you use for those boxes? 55L seams quite small for such a huge driver? Any more info on this project. Would love to see some more! 🙂
@Turbowatch2 interesting option of using a separate DSP and amplification. Will look into that. My first idea was to have the Hypex integrated in the tops or subs and run a signal cable to the other box. Do you have any suggestions regarding brands I should look into for finding drivers that could produce enough low-end in relatively small enclosures? I've been looking at the drivers at Thomann. Seems 15 inch is needed to get frequency down to 35 -40hz. BTW the speakers won't be used in open-air, only in a relatively small room of around 25m2. Maybe I'm also a bit to focused on reaching really low frequencies. You are probably right in saying that 35 - 40 hz would be low enough. Thanks for that insight. Definitely will look into the loudness side of things, I notice my understanding isn't quite their yet on this topic.
@picowallspeaker do you have any suggestions regarding specific drivers? And do you have any info/link to forum posts on the designs you mentioned? Would love to see more! 🙂
I like 8" midbass/ midrange
Some concept photos shown are nice looking systems.
First I thought you were limited to 92 dB
from the 8" which is fine for home use.
Noticed the woofer is 89 dB
so more the limiting factor.
Baffle step when compensated for
might reduce that even further.
Current Driver choice has quality.
Maybe for live / mobile
High SPL slightly limiting.
Likely shoot a little closer to decent
SPL using 15" bass.
And possible 8" speaker choice will get
higher to 96dB
The aesthetic your shooting for
will be rather nice.
The " standing" concept has been done many
times. Work well for that ear height
Keep in mind center to center spacing
for mid/ bass speaker is now farther apart
so realistic lower crossover point is needed.
For Wave guide and driver will work fine.
simulation is not easy for early concept.
Some measurement will be needed.
8" mid is still very feasible
it will help with lower crossover needed
to make standing concept work.
I enjoy passive crossover design.
So find multiple amps for crossover pointless crutch.
For subwoofer integrating low crossover point
is useful. It eliminates expensive inductors.
And allows high pass over excursion filter easy
to do as well. So mid and tweeter easy to do passive.
Then simple 2 way active crossover easy to use.
All very accessible a rack mountable for amp and
processing for mobile or home use.
If center to center speaker spacing is always kept tight/ closer together.
Active system can be eliminated.
Would be passive with only speakers wires to connect , one amp,
then go
Crossover for bass could be higher, resulting is also higher
8" crossover point. Xmax is less of worry.
And 3mm to 6mm be typical for most drivers.
Not a concern with high crossover
Some concept photos shown are nice looking systems.
First I thought you were limited to 92 dB
from the 8" which is fine for home use.
Noticed the woofer is 89 dB
so more the limiting factor.
Baffle step when compensated for
might reduce that even further.
Current Driver choice has quality.
Maybe for live / mobile
High SPL slightly limiting.
Likely shoot a little closer to decent
SPL using 15" bass.
And possible 8" speaker choice will get
higher to 96dB
The aesthetic your shooting for
will be rather nice.
The " standing" concept has been done many
times. Work well for that ear height
Keep in mind center to center spacing
for mid/ bass speaker is now farther apart
so realistic lower crossover point is needed.
For Wave guide and driver will work fine.
simulation is not easy for early concept.
Some measurement will be needed.
8" mid is still very feasible
it will help with lower crossover needed
to make standing concept work.
I enjoy passive crossover design.
So find multiple amps for crossover pointless crutch.
For subwoofer integrating low crossover point
is useful. It eliminates expensive inductors.
And allows high pass over excursion filter easy
to do as well. So mid and tweeter easy to do passive.
Then simple 2 way active crossover easy to use.
All very accessible a rack mountable for amp and
processing for mobile or home use.
If center to center speaker spacing is always kept tight/ closer together.
Active system can be eliminated.
Would be passive with only speakers wires to connect , one amp,
then go
Crossover for bass could be higher, resulting is also higher
8" crossover point. Xmax is less of worry.
And 3mm to 6mm be typical for most drivers.
Not a concern with high crossover
I 2nd some of the suggestions for a large cone area, moved gently.
Note that enclosed rooms (25m^2) usually add big peaks and room gain to the bass. Your ported simulation will be way off. Sealed all the way. Alternatively... a finely tuned TQWP, corner-loaded or something like that. Not recommended as a beginner project, but always an option. A plain vent will short-out the sub-bass though.
Note that enclosed rooms (25m^2) usually add big peaks and room gain to the bass. Your ported simulation will be way off. Sealed all the way. Alternatively... a finely tuned TQWP, corner-loaded or something like that. Not recommended as a beginner project, but always an option. A plain vent will short-out the sub-bass though.
B&C 18PZB100 - not ideal, but before anyone jumps down my neck, at £125GBP each I wasn't going to pass up six of them! Q=0.5 in 55l. Obviously need a ton of EQ and power, but very nice to listen to. If you've never tried sealed, give it a try - you'll probably like it! The six 18s have been joined by four 21s, each of the ten subs being driven by its own amp.
Displacement volume (Vd) about 15l; sensitivity about 98dB/W 1m; total power 20kWrms.
As I said: Move a Lot of Air - GENTLY!
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@WhiteDragon thanks for your detailed insights! Especially the tip about the lower cross-over point for the standing concept is something I didn't yet think about.
@abstract I find it quite hard to imagine what impact the room gain would have in this case. I've been reading the vituixCAD documentation but it's quite a complex process to fully model this in the software. Regarding suggestions for a "large cone area, moved gently." From the same company as one of the other inspiration examples I found this 15 inch closed sub:
https://newfidelity.de/produkt/sub15/
This are the mentioned specifications:
I'm really puzzled by the combination of the huge 15 inch driver with only a 250w amplifier. Probably just the Hypex FusionAmp 250W (@4ohm) version, as it is "DSP NCORE". I looked at a lot of drivers but they all need more power. It's even more puzzling when most of these 15 inch drivers are 8 ohm. That amp is rated only for 180w at 8 ohm. And then there is the frequency range going down to 30hz. Do companies take room gain into consideration for these kinds of measurements? When trying to model some cabinets with PA style 15 inch drivers in VituixCAD today I didn't even come close to reaching 30hz especially not in such a small closed box.
@MrKlinky do you have any idea how the above example is put together? Your setup sounds next level, that's some crazy amounts of air you are moving gently 😀. I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of building a closed system, as it's generally easier to make the cabinet and the sound quality characteristics also seem to be quite nice.
I also found some extra information about one of the smaller speakers that I had in the inspiration board: This one
They have a section on their product page about three different presets that can be selected on the amplifier. They don't seem to go too loud, or is "nearfield" measurement a couple of meters away from the speaker instead of the standard 1m? The difference in presets is quite large, so maybe there is a considerable amount of low end extension that can be gained with DSP? Could it be the case that they just limit the gain which then gives the ability to boost the low-end without going over the Xmax limit?
@mayhem13 thanks for your detailed tips and driver suggestions! I came across that wave guide and will definitely have a better look at it. The tips regarding the mounting, does this enable the use of regular 1 inch drivers in this 1-3/8" throat? If you have any specific links to more info about this trick it would be appreciated. I've read a bit about the 10RS350 in an article of Troels Gravesen, going for a 10 inch seems to be better match when upping the subwoofer to a 15 inch. Do you have any specific recommendations regarding a "15” pro neo subwoofer "?
Appreciate all the feedback and input!
@abstract I find it quite hard to imagine what impact the room gain would have in this case. I've been reading the vituixCAD documentation but it's quite a complex process to fully model this in the software. Regarding suggestions for a "large cone area, moved gently." From the same company as one of the other inspiration examples I found this 15 inch closed sub:
https://newfidelity.de/produkt/sub15/
This are the mentioned specifications:
| Height | 50 cm |
| Width | 50 cm |
| Depth | 33 cm |
| Material | Birch |
| Power | 250 w |
| Amping | DSP NCORE |
| Frequency (-3db) | 30 hz – 150 hz |
| Transducers | 15″ |
I'm really puzzled by the combination of the huge 15 inch driver with only a 250w amplifier. Probably just the Hypex FusionAmp 250W (@4ohm) version, as it is "DSP NCORE". I looked at a lot of drivers but they all need more power. It's even more puzzling when most of these 15 inch drivers are 8 ohm. That amp is rated only for 180w at 8 ohm. And then there is the frequency range going down to 30hz. Do companies take room gain into consideration for these kinds of measurements? When trying to model some cabinets with PA style 15 inch drivers in VituixCAD today I didn't even come close to reaching 30hz especially not in such a small closed box.
@MrKlinky do you have any idea how the above example is put together? Your setup sounds next level, that's some crazy amounts of air you are moving gently 😀. I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of building a closed system, as it's generally easier to make the cabinet and the sound quality characteristics also seem to be quite nice.
I also found some extra information about one of the smaller speakers that I had in the inspiration board: This one
They have a section on their product page about three different presets that can be selected on the amplifier. They don't seem to go too loud, or is "nearfield" measurement a couple of meters away from the speaker instead of the standard 1m? The difference in presets is quite large, so maybe there is a considerable amount of low end extension that can be gained with DSP? Could it be the case that they just limit the gain which then gives the ability to boost the low-end without going over the Xmax limit?
@mayhem13 thanks for your detailed tips and driver suggestions! I came across that wave guide and will definitely have a better look at it. The tips regarding the mounting, does this enable the use of regular 1 inch drivers in this 1-3/8" throat? If you have any specific links to more info about this trick it would be appreciated. I've read a bit about the 10RS350 in an article of Troels Gravesen, going for a 10 inch seems to be better match when upping the subwoofer to a 15 inch. Do you have any specific recommendations regarding a "15” pro neo subwoofer "?
Appreciate all the feedback and input!
Power is so cheap these days that there is absolutely no cost reason not to have a kilowatt or so of amplifier power on available for subs. Similarly, larger PA drivers (a 12" or 15" is often considered to be an upper bass/midrange) are considerably more efficient than hifi drivers and come with proper power handling.
It's easy to disregard PA drivers for home use, as most diyers (no offence intended) are lured by the super-low Fs, low powered, low efficiency hifi drivers pushed by the big names in the business. Remember that PA drivers are not designed to have a flat response, and rely on DSP to flatten them. Even if you build a single 18" sealed sub with a Qtc of about 0.5-0.6, it will be more than adequate in your small room and you will, almost literally, be blown away!
The big trick trick to clean bass is to have decent transient overhead so nothing is turned up to 11 and working flat-out, plus, a large driver moving gently will generally sound better than a smaller one flapping about wildly. Lastly, increasing cone area allows it to couple better to the surrounding air (acoustic impedance matching), as evidenced by the (generally) higher efficiency at low frequencies of larger drivers compared with smaller ones.
You wouldn't go far wrong with any driver from B&C, Beyma, or Faital Pro.
It's easy to disregard PA drivers for home use, as most diyers (no offence intended) are lured by the super-low Fs, low powered, low efficiency hifi drivers pushed by the big names in the business. Remember that PA drivers are not designed to have a flat response, and rely on DSP to flatten them. Even if you build a single 18" sealed sub with a Qtc of about 0.5-0.6, it will be more than adequate in your small room and you will, almost literally, be blown away!
The big trick trick to clean bass is to have decent transient overhead so nothing is turned up to 11 and working flat-out, plus, a large driver moving gently will generally sound better than a smaller one flapping about wildly. Lastly, increasing cone area allows it to couple better to the surrounding air (acoustic impedance matching), as evidenced by the (generally) higher efficiency at low frequencies of larger drivers compared with smaller ones.
You wouldn't go far wrong with any driver from B&C, Beyma, or Faital Pro.
I have used Beyma 10" neo mids with Beyma AMTs for years and they would make your ears bleed in a small room with little apparent cone movement of the mid...
Do you have a total system budget in mind, bearing in mind that tri-amping with DSP is the way to go??
Do you have a total system budget in mind, bearing in mind that tri-amping with DSP is the way to go??
Why do everyone claim power is cheap these days? Kwh price have never been higher so that can’t be it. Power amps suffer from the same inflation as everything else. A Rotel multi channel costs more than 3 times it did 20 years ago like with everything class AB. Class D might be cheap but sounds awful.
Back on subject I think for a first build this is a bit ambitious. Why don’t someone just recommend some proven builds from Troels, Econowave, or something that meets the criteria. There should be plenty of 2 way and 3 ways designs using high sensitive drivers PA drivers that also sounds good at home.
Back on subject I think for a first build this is a bit ambitious. Why don’t someone just recommend some proven builds from Troels, Econowave, or something that meets the criteria. There should be plenty of 2 way and 3 ways designs using high sensitive drivers PA drivers that also sounds good at home.
You may be confusing a few different things. There's maximum rated power (before the voice coil burns out and all that), speaker sensitivity, and amplifier power. Some high powered amplifiers may perform well because of various quality improvements as you go up the product line, that go together with the power rating, like a larger toroid and capacitor bank, and occasional freebies added to the actual circuitry*.
*I can just imagine the business case:
"OK fine, we can add your cascode idea to the VAS, just because it's the deluxe version. But it's a whopping $1 cost in parts, and once we factor in things like marketing, product differentiation, and overheads, that's $200 of value-add that we're giving away like candy for a mere $99 premium. We're basically losing $100 on this!"
~~~
I've heard claims about speakers needing a certain power level to "come alive". But how do you verify that it's the speaker and not the amplifier? I've seen several TPAxx and TASxx type ~100W class D chips, where the distortion spec has a minimum around 10W, and at lower powers it gradually gets worse.
There are also many success stories with flea-power 1-5W, or 10 or 20W class A amplifiers used with high efficiency speakers. While they won't break any SPL records, remember the difference between 20W and 200W is only 10dB.
Even if there are other opinions, if you want such a HIFI-PA capable system, you will need it fully active with a DSP.
Passive or analog active crossovers can not do both. You will need a setting for your room and one for larger venues. These will be so different, it is not possible to do that without a DSP channel for any chassis. Also, you get all kinds of intelligent limiter stuff, which is a very nice insurance when things get rough at a party. Time alignment is the next big plus of a DSP. This may sound complicated to you, but there is no simpler way to do all that than with a DSP. Passive and PA is simply a thing of the past, not only in PA by the way.
With your drivers, there are quite many high quality PA chassis around that do basicaly the same, how it "sounds" in the end is a matter of DSP programing. No one will be able to tell you, with closed eyes, what bass chassis are playing in a good PA system. You only hear how well the sound engineer has integrated the material for a specific location.
What you have to find out is how large your cabinets should be. Then we can talk about chassis size, brands etc.
First, as you did, discussing chassis may be interesting for you, because you have some second hand opinion's about brands and sizes, but it will lead no where.
So, pick a comfortable size for your top's and sub's. That is the way to start. Think about transportation.
Do not plan a PA system when you will only use it in a small room 99% of time and just think about "maybe I will use it at a birthday party". Better rent some PA speaker when you really need them, instead of having a compromise at home, 364 days per year.
You can build a PA like, high dynamic speaker system with a large AMT instead of a horn, giving you less in room problems and even better sound. A horn in the near field can easily be to much dynamics. There are some good speaker kit's called "HIFI-PA". So you can build a proven design instead of developing one yourself. Better a good copy than a miserable own design, if you are a beginner that is even more true.
Have one thing in mind, smaller cabinet means more power needed, closed cabinets double power demand compared to vented.
Passive or analog active crossovers can not do both. You will need a setting for your room and one for larger venues. These will be so different, it is not possible to do that without a DSP channel for any chassis. Also, you get all kinds of intelligent limiter stuff, which is a very nice insurance when things get rough at a party. Time alignment is the next big plus of a DSP. This may sound complicated to you, but there is no simpler way to do all that than with a DSP. Passive and PA is simply a thing of the past, not only in PA by the way.
With your drivers, there are quite many high quality PA chassis around that do basicaly the same, how it "sounds" in the end is a matter of DSP programing. No one will be able to tell you, with closed eyes, what bass chassis are playing in a good PA system. You only hear how well the sound engineer has integrated the material for a specific location.
What you have to find out is how large your cabinets should be. Then we can talk about chassis size, brands etc.
First, as you did, discussing chassis may be interesting for you, because you have some second hand opinion's about brands and sizes, but it will lead no where.
So, pick a comfortable size for your top's and sub's. That is the way to start. Think about transportation.
Do not plan a PA system when you will only use it in a small room 99% of time and just think about "maybe I will use it at a birthday party". Better rent some PA speaker when you really need them, instead of having a compromise at home, 364 days per year.
You can build a PA like, high dynamic speaker system with a large AMT instead of a horn, giving you less in room problems and even better sound. A horn in the near field can easily be to much dynamics. There are some good speaker kit's called "HIFI-PA". So you can build a proven design instead of developing one yourself. Better a good copy than a miserable own design, if you are a beginner that is even more true.
Have one thing in mind, smaller cabinet means more power needed, closed cabinets double power demand compared to vented.