I'm considering buying a second hand pair of martin logan electrostatics and was wondering if anyone had any advice on models to avoid because of reliablitiy issues etc?
Not so much the models, but by construction ESLs deteriorate over time, mostly glued parts that become loose and/or diaphragm film conductivity changing.
I have had several, a pair of Sequal II's and a pair of Aerius. There's a lot of info here how to rejuvenate older models, not hard if you have reasonable mechanical skills and are patient. There normally is nothing basically wrong with them.
In any case it would be good to audition before purchase.
Jan
I have had several, a pair of Sequal II's and a pair of Aerius. There's a lot of info here how to rejuvenate older models, not hard if you have reasonable mechanical skills and are patient. There normally is nothing basically wrong with them.
In any case it would be good to audition before purchase.
Jan
My CLS II's lasted about 20 years but from what I've read 10 is about the max you can expect. That's impressive all things considered. Advice? Less than 10 yo unless you are good with your hands as Jan suggests 🙂.
How can it last 20 years without failing panels triplej ? My odyssey's panels give up the ghost but lucky for me was able to perform surgery & recoated the panels.
If you haven't already, you might look into a vintage pair of Acoustats. Generally speaking, Acoustat ESLs do not suffer from eventual panel failure like so many other brands.
I had them in storage for a while but still lasted way longer than expected. I'm sure their performance was degraded but I just turned them up! I sold them as is to someone who was confident they could fix them. Wonder if they did..
Hi Triplej,
Yes when we have the ML speakers for so long, our ears sort of adjust to the sound even when panels begins to degrade. I was shocked after I recoated my panels, the difference was night & day. Lol
Yes when we have the ML speakers for so long, our ears sort of adjust to the sound even when panels begins to degrade. I was shocked after I recoated my panels, the difference was night & day. Lol
In around 2004 ML introduced the Generation 2 (with clear spars) ESL which uses stiff clear spacers and beads of glue to hold the sandwich together much better (and is much easier to keep clean) than the previous 3M double sided foam tape of Gen 1.
Get a big enough panel! Get a sealed bass hybrid. You can use active xo and your own amp on the bass of the Ascent i (my favorite) and Odyssey to bring the bass performance up to the current active bass hybrids.
Get a big enough panel! Get a sealed bass hybrid. You can use active xo and your own amp on the bass of the Ascent i (my favorite) and Odyssey to bring the bass performance up to the current active bass hybrids.
They also made it much much harder for us diyers to repair/recoat the panels cause it is double taped all round Andersonix.
So how do you get taped panels apart? I'm running into the same problem with an old set of Bevs -- they used tape too.
Sorry -- I am working on Beveridge Model 5s, with the printed circuit board stators. They are quite different than Acoustats -- they always have used an acoustic lens or waveguide to shape the wave front shape, and a constant voltage design instead of constant charge.
But that shouldn't matter for these purposes. They use tape to affix the coated electrodes to the diaphragm. These are very difficult to work with, and I haven't figured out how to do it yet.
But that shouldn't matter for these purposes. They use tape to affix the coated electrodes to the diaphragm. These are very difficult to work with, and I haven't figured out how to do it yet.
Not too sure if the same method can be applied DrJJ. My ML panels have front & rear stators with the mylar film stretched & double tape to back stator. For me the trick is to split the front stator without affecting the rear . What I use is alcohol but it is not a 1 time affair, you have to drip onto the spacers, the sides etc let it soak, re apply again till it soften the double sided tape. Now the scary part, we start by prying the front stator from the edge, in my case I actually use a wood chisel to split. Lol Difficult to explain in writing. Very important is when we push the chisel inn, it has to be angled towards the front stator, this is to prevent a accidentally cutting the mylar film. Yes It a little nerve wrecking but with care & patients it can be done. Not sure if your panels are as robust as the way ML build their panels though.
Interesting. So how is the diaphragm attached to the front stator?
The Bevs use tape all the way round, on both sides. I had thought of using solvent -- probably toluene, but I can try more of them (I own a research chemistry lab). I don't really care if the diaphragm is ruptured, though it would be good to keep it as intact as possible to inspect.
FWIW, the diaphragm-to-stator spacing is about 0.75 mm, so there is not a lot of room to work with.
Sorry for the digression. We can make this a separate thread, if you like.
The Bevs use tape all the way round, on both sides. I had thought of using solvent -- probably toluene, but I can try more of them (I own a research chemistry lab). I don't really care if the diaphragm is ruptured, though it would be good to keep it as intact as possible to inspect.
FWIW, the diaphragm-to-stator spacing is about 0.75 mm, so there is not a lot of room to work with.
Sorry for the digression. We can make this a separate thread, if you like.
No worries DrJJ , Front & back also double sided tape. Now the thing is the double tape used is very thing & not the thick 3M translucent variety. It is applied onto both sides of the plastic spacers.
I don't think my stators are particularly robust, and I don't really want to destroy one in the process. These are 40-year-old stators made from PCB material (with copper and a dielectric layer facing the diaphragm), and I'd bet they have gotten somewhat brittle. But I have no data -- only speculations.