I seem to be a victim of my own success and must now dig myself out of a hole, I'm hoping there are people here with shovels that are willing to help me!
I recently decided to build my first pair of speakers, and chose plans from SoundBlab for the Dynamites. I've been surprised and impressed with their performance given their size and the modest cost of the drivers. They're by no means perfect, but a pleasant surprise.
My wife is definitely no stranger to new speakers in the house and rarely comments other than "not more speakers" and has never shared an opinion on the appearance or performance of anything I've bought (other than telling my my Kef R11s were too big - in fairness, we moved house and they were too big for the new house). However, when I finished the Dynamites, she saw them and told me they're the best looking speakers I've ever owned, which she then repeated twice throughout the day. A definite first! Then, the next day, asked if I could build a replacement for our current dedicated HT system (Kef Q750 / Q650) with the same aesthetic as the Dynamites. This system doesn't get used for music all that much, I have other systems for that. But this one is in our main living space, so appearances are everything (to some people, at least).
The aesthetic though, is where my problems come in - see the Dynamites use 4" HiVi B4N drivers with a distinctive copper colored cone. This limits my driver choice significantly, since I can't find anything other than the HiVi drivers with similar coloring. There are larger options (B5N and B6N, 5" and 6" respectively) that carry the same aestetic and I could also supplement a 4-5" mid-bass with a black ~6" woofer and still meet WAF. I did find some Seas Excel drivers, that have a copper phase-plug that I might be able to pull off, but on this forum I've read they're best avoided as they don't behave well (these are the magnesium cone models).
So, now it seems it's down to me to take on my most ambitious project to design a 2.5- or 3-way pair of front and rear speakers and a center channel based on the HiVi BxN drivers! This is a new world for me, but I love to learn and I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.
My plan is to select drivers and then build a crossover (something I've never done before) using measurements. I'm still reading about this, but I read a method where you take raw measurements from the drivers in the cabinet once constructed and then derive a crossover design - so that's kinda my plan. Hopefully that's not a stupid plan for a newbie, please tell me if it is.
I see a couple of paths forward but I'm not sure about the best driver selection.
One option is a 2.5-way with
2 x HiVi-M6N. I'm thinking this would be configured as vented with SBB4 alignment (shown below)
1 x Appropriate tweeter, perhaps the Peerless BC25TG15-04 used in the Dynamites (although I'm open to suggestions)
The HiVi-M6N doesn't go that low though, so I could also build a 3-way, adding a dedicated Woofer. I'm not sure how essential this is, since my HT setup also includes a subwoofer which handles most of the really low frequencies.
1 x Tweeter (again, perhaps Peerless BC25TG15-04)
1 x Mid-bass HiVi-M6N, perhaps sealed
1 x Woofer (maybe the Aurum Cantus AC-165, which has the same 89dB efficiency as the M6N). I'm thinking this would be configured as vented with SBB4 alignment
The center would probably need to be a 2.5-way:
2 x HiVi-M6N (or perhaps M5N to keep the footprint small? Haven't worked out cabinet size for this yet)
1 x Appropriate tweeter - again, perhaps the Peerless BC25TG15-04 used in the Dynamites
The Peerless BC25TG15-04 is currently end of life, so if I do go that path, I'll need to buy all the tweeters I need now as I won't be able to get more later!
Manufacturer's data:
Peerless BC25TG15-04
HiVi M6N
Arcus Cantus AC-165
My main concern, I guess, is that I won't be able to create anything that matches the performance my current setup (not that it's perfect either, but I do enjoy it) given my restriction on driver selection. I could suggest a non-copper-colored driver lineup and see how that goes down, but of course it might not be met with much enthusiasm...
I would appreciate any input on driver selection. Assuming these options are sane, I will then look at baffle design. Thanks for reading! Oh, and if I'm making any crazy assumptions or anything here is clearly wrong, please let me know! I'm here to learn 🙂 On that note, now I'm off to read more stickies and recommended reading on speaker design!
I recently decided to build my first pair of speakers, and chose plans from SoundBlab for the Dynamites. I've been surprised and impressed with their performance given their size and the modest cost of the drivers. They're by no means perfect, but a pleasant surprise.
My wife is definitely no stranger to new speakers in the house and rarely comments other than "not more speakers" and has never shared an opinion on the appearance or performance of anything I've bought (other than telling my my Kef R11s were too big - in fairness, we moved house and they were too big for the new house). However, when I finished the Dynamites, she saw them and told me they're the best looking speakers I've ever owned, which she then repeated twice throughout the day. A definite first! Then, the next day, asked if I could build a replacement for our current dedicated HT system (Kef Q750 / Q650) with the same aesthetic as the Dynamites. This system doesn't get used for music all that much, I have other systems for that. But this one is in our main living space, so appearances are everything (to some people, at least).
The aesthetic though, is where my problems come in - see the Dynamites use 4" HiVi B4N drivers with a distinctive copper colored cone. This limits my driver choice significantly, since I can't find anything other than the HiVi drivers with similar coloring. There are larger options (B5N and B6N, 5" and 6" respectively) that carry the same aestetic and I could also supplement a 4-5" mid-bass with a black ~6" woofer and still meet WAF. I did find some Seas Excel drivers, that have a copper phase-plug that I might be able to pull off, but on this forum I've read they're best avoided as they don't behave well (these are the magnesium cone models).
So, now it seems it's down to me to take on my most ambitious project to design a 2.5- or 3-way pair of front and rear speakers and a center channel based on the HiVi BxN drivers! This is a new world for me, but I love to learn and I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.
My plan is to select drivers and then build a crossover (something I've never done before) using measurements. I'm still reading about this, but I read a method where you take raw measurements from the drivers in the cabinet once constructed and then derive a crossover design - so that's kinda my plan. Hopefully that's not a stupid plan for a newbie, please tell me if it is.
I see a couple of paths forward but I'm not sure about the best driver selection.
One option is a 2.5-way with
2 x HiVi-M6N. I'm thinking this would be configured as vented with SBB4 alignment (shown below)
1 x Appropriate tweeter, perhaps the Peerless BC25TG15-04 used in the Dynamites (although I'm open to suggestions)
The HiVi-M6N doesn't go that low though, so I could also build a 3-way, adding a dedicated Woofer. I'm not sure how essential this is, since my HT setup also includes a subwoofer which handles most of the really low frequencies.
1 x Tweeter (again, perhaps Peerless BC25TG15-04)
1 x Mid-bass HiVi-M6N, perhaps sealed
1 x Woofer (maybe the Aurum Cantus AC-165, which has the same 89dB efficiency as the M6N). I'm thinking this would be configured as vented with SBB4 alignment
The center would probably need to be a 2.5-way:
2 x HiVi-M6N (or perhaps M5N to keep the footprint small? Haven't worked out cabinet size for this yet)
1 x Appropriate tweeter - again, perhaps the Peerless BC25TG15-04 used in the Dynamites
The Peerless BC25TG15-04 is currently end of life, so if I do go that path, I'll need to buy all the tweeters I need now as I won't be able to get more later!
Manufacturer's data:
Peerless BC25TG15-04
HiVi M6N
Arcus Cantus AC-165
My main concern, I guess, is that I won't be able to create anything that matches the performance my current setup (not that it's perfect either, but I do enjoy it) given my restriction on driver selection. I could suggest a non-copper-colored driver lineup and see how that goes down, but of course it might not be met with much enthusiasm...
I would appreciate any input on driver selection. Assuming these options are sane, I will then look at baffle design. Thanks for reading! Oh, and if I'm making any crazy assumptions or anything here is clearly wrong, please let me know! I'm here to learn 🙂 On that note, now I'm off to read more stickies and recommended reading on speaker design!
I'd learn to do a good multi-sub configuration to add to it. That way you get quality bass avoid having to stretch the low end of your 4" too much.. and the individual subs can be smaller and possibly hidden.
Suggest checking these out: Paul's a great designer and these projects all use HiVi woofers or mids:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/home-theater-speakers
Geoff
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/home-theater-speakers
Geoff
I'd talk her into a nice box with attractive black drivers. No way would I design around the drivers you are considering.
Thanks - I have actually seen that site before, maybe a year or so ago, but totally forgotten about it - and I had no memory of them being the HiVi drivers! It looks like those designs might actually work really well for what I'm trying to build, plus the Overnight Sensations have a bookshelf, center, floorstander and bipole design (although I wouldn't use the bipole). Interesting choice to use the 3" drivers for the center to keep the footprint down.
Yeah, that's kinda my thought, too. I'm concerned I'll never be content with these. On the other hand, I can build them and see what I think, and if I'm not happy then I have a good excuse to build some more. They're a low-cost build, so I can easily justify replacing them later. Besides, this will only be my second or third build, so I can use them largely as a learning experience
I do have a sub already, a single 12" sub. I have considered two smaller ones - it would work better in my room, I suspect.
Haha, here they are. I asked her today what about them it was she liked (hoping it was the color or the rounded edges) but the answer was "everything". So it's the size and shape of the drivers, cabinet shape, the color of the HiVi B4N and the paint color I used!
Seems like deviating might be problematic...
I might use this as an exercise to build matching floorstanders from scratch as a learning exercise. I'm about to start the Udemy courses on speaker design and crossover design, so I think this will be my application of what I learn. Gotta start somewhere!
Seems like deviating might be problematic...
I might use this as an exercise to build matching floorstanders from scratch as a learning exercise. I'm about to start the Udemy courses on speaker design and crossover design, so I think this will be my application of what I learn. Gotta start somewhere!
here's some with the copper colored HIVI cones (some parts might be NLA)
https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/diy-stereo-towers/
https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/safaris/
http://www.hificircuit.com/community/threads/the-alti-a-diy-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-design.773/
https://sites.google.com/site/undef...overnightsensationcenterchannelbipolewhatwhen
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/floorstanding-speakers/zx-spectrum
https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Pipeline.pdf
https://sites.google.com/view/sehlin-sound-solutions/mercury
Ampslab
HiVi M5A
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/09/23/hivi-m5a-thielesmall/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/09/19/robin-2-5-tower/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2017/10/31/robin-dx/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2017/11/21/robin-x/
HiVi M8a
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/03/20/hivi-m8a-2/
https://ampslab.com/nightingale_iv.htm
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/03/21/junco-ii/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/04/02/blackbird/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2024/02/11/flycatcher12/?swcfpc=1
https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/diy-stereo-towers/
https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/safaris/
http://www.hificircuit.com/community/threads/the-alti-a-diy-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-design.773/
https://sites.google.com/site/undef...overnightsensationcenterchannelbipolewhatwhen
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/floorstanding-speakers/zx-spectrum
https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Pipeline.pdf
https://sites.google.com/view/sehlin-sound-solutions/mercury
Ampslab
HiVi M5A
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/09/23/hivi-m5a-thielesmall/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/09/19/robin-2-5-tower/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2017/10/31/robin-dx/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2017/11/21/robin-x/
HiVi M8a
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/03/20/hivi-m8a-2/
https://ampslab.com/nightingale_iv.htm
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/03/21/junco-ii/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/04/02/blackbird/
https://ampslab-spk.com/2024/02/11/flycatcher12/?swcfpc=1
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Thanks @ChrisABC, I didn't realize there were so many builds out there already! My Google skills are obviously no match for yours! I guess the combination of these HiVi drivers being very reasonably priced yet reasonably competent has pushed people to get the most of it.
Interestingly, most of the builds refer to them as "budget builds but with an above budget sound" which lines up with what I'm getting from the Dynamites.
Interestingly, most of the builds refer to them as "budget builds but with an above budget sound" which lines up with what I'm getting from the Dynamites.
Hmm, what might she think of white cones? This opens up the Zaph ZA14W08, the SB Acoustics CAC line, and the Seas L line, although these are all more expensive than the Hivis.
I dont think the color matters or the sound, women use nonsense and endless hints with communication.
Basically anything small with no bass is what will be approved.
Any basic table lamp or flower pot that is 5x larger in reality is just fine though.
Even a 50x larger coffee table is no problem either.
Use black drivers and have a much wider range of choices.
Ironic cant stand gold or copper drivers, look like cheap sound bars from Costco.
I think it is the size.
I just drop in the widest tallest towers you can build, call it a day.
Basically anything small with no bass is what will be approved.
Any basic table lamp or flower pot that is 5x larger in reality is just fine though.
Even a 50x larger coffee table is no problem either.
Use black drivers and have a much wider range of choices.
Ironic cant stand gold or copper drivers, look like cheap sound bars from Costco.
I think it is the size.
I just drop in the widest tallest towers you can build, call it a day.
Actually, my wife is very accommodating of... er... size 😉
Her words were "can you make a big version of those for the TV?" (I've always had floorstanders for the fronts and so that's the expected replacement). I actually have floorstanders for front and back at the moment. The rears are black Polk RTi A7s, which aren't exactly subtle, and while she doesn't like their appearance, she's OK with the size.
I have considered putting the HiVi M4Ns in there but not actually connecting to them to anything (a kind of 2.0 configuration?), but then driver placement on the baffle is very wide. I might show her few different black driver options and see what she says.
I had considered the Seas Excel line as they have a few models with copper colored phase plugs, which I might be able to swing, as long as the color of the cone doesn't clash with the green!
Her words were "can you make a big version of those for the TV?" (I've always had floorstanders for the fronts and so that's the expected replacement). I actually have floorstanders for front and back at the moment. The rears are black Polk RTi A7s, which aren't exactly subtle, and while she doesn't like their appearance, she's OK with the size.
I have considered putting the HiVi M4Ns in there but not actually connecting to them to anything (a kind of 2.0 configuration?), but then driver placement on the baffle is very wide. I might show her few different black driver options and see what she says.
I had considered the Seas Excel line as they have a few models with copper colored phase plugs, which I might be able to swing, as long as the color of the cone doesn't clash with the green!
Thanks! It's very exclusive... that's satin clear coat over the top of matte paint. The finish actually matches the finish on the HiVi drivers perfectly.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the color - I don't mind it, but they don't look like premium drivers and, to be fair, they're not. For my first build, I wanted to build something budget and I just liked the size / shape of this build so thought I'd give it a go.
Now I'd like to try building something a bit more premium. Good news is that I just got green light to investigate drivers that look different, as long as the overall package looks similar
OK, so I now have clearance to use nearly any drivers, as long as the overall build is the same, so my plan is to use Satori drivers in a similar enclosure design.
I'm starting with the center channel and I'm looking at the following in a WTW configuration:
1 x Satori TW29DN-B-8 tweeter
2 x Satori MW13P-8 5" woofer
I modeled the woofers in WinISD with a QB3 alignment. The cabinet volume is 11l with 54hz tuning.
The only problem is that with the small cabinet size, I need a long port. Unless I go side-ported (which is possible), I need to use a slot port on the rear. This is what I've come up with. The idea is that the port doubles as a brace for the cabinet. It's all designed with 3/4" MDF.
I'm new at cabinet design, so I'm just wondering whether the fact that the port obstructs some space in the middle of the cabinet is a problem. The drivers have a 73mm mounting depth, and will lose ~15mm from mounting on the front baffle, so they'll need 58mm clearance inside the cabinet. The inside spacing between the front baffle and the port is ~78mm, so there will be ~20mm of space behind the woofers. Is this going to work? Thanks!
I'm starting with the center channel and I'm looking at the following in a WTW configuration:
1 x Satori TW29DN-B-8 tweeter
2 x Satori MW13P-8 5" woofer
I modeled the woofers in WinISD with a QB3 alignment. The cabinet volume is 11l with 54hz tuning.
The only problem is that with the small cabinet size, I need a long port. Unless I go side-ported (which is possible), I need to use a slot port on the rear. This is what I've come up with. The idea is that the port doubles as a brace for the cabinet. It's all designed with 3/4" MDF.
I'm new at cabinet design, so I'm just wondering whether the fact that the port obstructs some space in the middle of the cabinet is a problem. The drivers have a 73mm mounting depth, and will lose ~15mm from mounting on the front baffle, so they'll need 58mm clearance inside the cabinet. The inside spacing between the front baffle and the port is ~78mm, so there will be ~20mm of space behind the woofers. Is this going to work? Thanks!
As far as where you put the port, the box/port/driver should be largely homogenous up to some frequency where the box is large enough to be modal, and the port is positioned to participate.
I did wonder if that might be the case. I also put this together, which keeps the box largely homogeneous:
I added two braces to this design, which are the two bars in gray. I did take their displacement into account (as with the port) for the box volume. Would this be a better layout? I could push the port all the way to the end of the box so there's not a "dead zone" at the back left as there is now, but I'm not sure if that's a problem or not since it's a shallow space now.
I added two braces to this design, which are the two bars in gray. I did take their displacement into account (as with the port) for the box volume. Would this be a better layout? I could push the port all the way to the end of the box so there's not a "dead zone" at the back left as there is now, but I'm not sure if that's a problem or not since it's a shallow space now.