I agree with moving on to help the OP with further recommendations (like GeoffMillar) or with improving the Tannoy's bass/imaging/time alignment if the OP plans to get them (as suggested by diyiggy).
However, classicalfan needs to keep in mind that the commercial loudspeaker manufacturers including Behringer (just like the individual designers) are very respected entities in both the pro-audio and DIY communities. Further, the ones with rich heritage like Altec, JBL, Klipsch, EV, Tannoy and many others have also contributed a great deal of the knowledge to the DIY community over the years, through their approaches, designs, products, spare parts (raw LF, horns, compression drivers etc.) and most importantly, datasheets and application notes. In my opinion, even smaller companies like PAudio (that make copies) have significant contributions to the audio community, simply because of the availability and reach of their products.
Thus, I think it's best not to disrespect such entities (or their products) simply because they're commercial establishments. Any negative opinions could still have been made in 'modest' language, without resorting to derogatory terms. After all, 'good' and 'not so good' speakers exist in both the commercial as well as the DIY segments, don't they?
However, classicalfan needs to keep in mind that the commercial loudspeaker manufacturers including Behringer (just like the individual designers) are very respected entities in both the pro-audio and DIY communities. Further, the ones with rich heritage like Altec, JBL, Klipsch, EV, Tannoy and many others have also contributed a great deal of the knowledge to the DIY community over the years, through their approaches, designs, products, spare parts (raw LF, horns, compression drivers etc.) and most importantly, datasheets and application notes. In my opinion, even smaller companies like PAudio (that make copies) have significant contributions to the audio community, simply because of the availability and reach of their products.
Thus, I think it's best not to disrespect such entities (or their products) simply because they're commercial establishments. Any negative opinions could still have been made in 'modest' language, without resorting to derogatory terms. After all, 'good' and 'not so good' speakers exist in both the commercial as well as the DIY segments, don't they?
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I don’t need to be told by you what to keep in mind and what not to.
Contrary to what you have written, my comments are in no way derogatory with regard to Behringer or any other company. My comments have been about a particular speaker made by Behringer that is terrible for listening to and enjoying music in a home high fidelity system. And that’s exactly what this forum is all about. Obtaining equipment for enjoying music at home.
But the product you recommended has not been designed or intended for that purpose. It is instead intended for use in a mixing studio and to be very analytical. And as a result has been tested and documented to have terrible distortions at high frequency. Perhaps you don’t understand what was written in Post #114 about this particular speaker. Or perhaps you just don’t want to.
So I’ll repeat what I said before. This speaker does not belong in a discussion of high fidelity speakers, which is what this thread is all about. And it certainly should not have been recommended here.
It that offends you, I can’t help it. Perhaps you should do more homework on a product before promoting it.
I have tried several times now to end the discussion about this speaker, but you keep opening it up again. I strongly suggest that it’s time to stop.
Contrary to what you have written, my comments are in no way derogatory with regard to Behringer or any other company. My comments have been about a particular speaker made by Behringer that is terrible for listening to and enjoying music in a home high fidelity system. And that’s exactly what this forum is all about. Obtaining equipment for enjoying music at home.
But the product you recommended has not been designed or intended for that purpose. It is instead intended for use in a mixing studio and to be very analytical. And as a result has been tested and documented to have terrible distortions at high frequency. Perhaps you don’t understand what was written in Post #114 about this particular speaker. Or perhaps you just don’t want to.
So I’ll repeat what I said before. This speaker does not belong in a discussion of high fidelity speakers, which is what this thread is all about. And it certainly should not have been recommended here.
It that offends you, I can’t help it. Perhaps you should do more homework on a product before promoting it.
I have tried several times now to end the discussion about this speaker, but you keep opening it up again. I strongly suggest that it’s time to stop.
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Dear classicalfan,
Please note that I have not participated in the detailed discussion of (or recommended) a commercial product in this thread, and I agree with that the Behringer speaker need not be discussed here.
However, your judgemental comments and description of commercial products could also be found in threads other than this one. It appears to me that you tend to decide things (absolutely) for everyone else and the world besides yourself, without thinking that standards (and preferences) could vary among people.
In my opinion, it was this attitude of yours (to judge and decide for all), and not the Behringer speaker that made this whole thing go back and forth, several times. To be honest, you really reminded me of a few lecturers from my college days (for very, very obvious reasons), no offence. 🙂
Thanks.
Please note that I have not participated in the detailed discussion of (or recommended) a commercial product in this thread, and I agree with that the Behringer speaker need not be discussed here.
However, your judgemental comments and description of commercial products could also be found in threads other than this one. It appears to me that you tend to decide things (absolutely) for everyone else and the world besides yourself, without thinking that standards (and preferences) could vary among people.
In my opinion, it was this attitude of yours (to judge and decide for all), and not the Behringer speaker that made this whole thing go back and forth, several times. To be honest, you really reminded me of a few lecturers from my college days (for very, very obvious reasons), no offence. 🙂
Thanks.
You are right that you have not been promoting the Behringer speaker, and I stand corrected on that matter. I apparently mixed you up with diyiggy who has been the big promoter of that speaker.
Nevertheless, I find many of your other posts to be antithetical to the essence of this forum, which is DIY speaker building.
You do not apparently believe in the value proposition of DIY and the fact that one can easily build a speaker from a kit that rivals, and often exceeds, the performance of commercially produced speakers costing as much as 10 times more.
That is the real point I am making here, have made in other threads, and have every intention of continuing to make when people assert claims to the contrary, such as you have done in Posts #7, 27, 37, 45 ,63, 69, and 88. It is quite clear that you have limited, if any, real interest in DIYers buying kits and building speakers from them..
So please be prepared for me to continue to defend and promote DIY speaker building, particularly from kits, regardless of you or anyone else calling its value proposition into question.
It would also be proper and appreciated for you to cease your personal attacks on me simply because you do not agree with or like my opinions.
Nevertheless, I find many of your other posts to be antithetical to the essence of this forum, which is DIY speaker building.
You do not apparently believe in the value proposition of DIY and the fact that one can easily build a speaker from a kit that rivals, and often exceeds, the performance of commercially produced speakers costing as much as 10 times more.
That is the real point I am making here, have made in other threads, and have every intention of continuing to make when people assert claims to the contrary, such as you have done in Posts #7, 27, 37, 45 ,63, 69, and 88. It is quite clear that you have limited, if any, real interest in DIYers buying kits and building speakers from them..
So please be prepared for me to continue to defend and promote DIY speaker building, particularly from kits, regardless of you or anyone else calling its value proposition into question.
It would also be proper and appreciated for you to cease your personal attacks on me simply because you do not agree with or like my opinions.
classicalfan said:
I do believe that's possible, but like I already stated, it takes considerable knowledge to achieve something like that (especially when it comes to horn speakers). A kit (just like any other design) may or may not meet such expectations.
Also, I think it would be wiser if value (which is an abstract quantity like sound quality) be ascertained on a case-by-case basis (according to parts, price, quality etc.), as the value proposition you mention (10x) need not necessarily exist in every case.
Again, note that I have not contested the 'value' of any of the reasonably priced kits listed by GeoffMillar.
newvirus, it's clear to me classicfan is an unsane troll, who is putting in other's mouth words or thoughs they never had. Making the story from a to z himself and alone, beleiving he has the truth always. Fanatic, but mostly pathetic in the medical sense of the word. He burns everything and even decide alone what is the essence of the forum. It has I believe some private enjoyment to do so, some stubbornness highlights. I gave up the thread in front of this too much dishonest behavior in front of what I beleive to be a young dude with not so much great experience of what hifi is, and even diy. Just buy an american designer and vote trump, the guy will be happy. 😉
You loose your time with his two cents dialectic... ballpark level. Quite sad for the op ! I putt him on my ignore list as his contributions are near zero helps.
You loose your time with his two cents dialectic... ballpark level. Quite sad for the op ! I putt him on my ignore list as his contributions are near zero helps.
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Hm. Although I didn‘t follow the whole dispute, may I please ask you not to get into those verbal escalations?
Even if you feel bullied or otherwise disrespected by anyone, just please do not get caught into public dueling. (Of course I made that mistake too, but it’s not worth it, it only degrades the forum)
If a post is not acceptable, alert the mods.
If a post is just, uhm, stubborn, don‘t act the same!
Even if you feel bullied or otherwise disrespected by anyone, just please do not get caught into public dueling. (Of course I made that mistake too, but it’s not worth it, it only degrades the forum)
If a post is not acceptable, alert the mods.
If a post is just, uhm, stubborn, don‘t act the same!
Indeed that was the sense of my message to newvirus, I can't read the other guy posts anymore, not an escalation, just think it's a crusade and the guy want to make that thread deleted, or something like that. So alerted newvirus to the trap of such dialectic.
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This thread has gotten out of control with two members, diyiggy and newvirus2008, issuing insults against me that are clearly not allowed.
They apparently do not like my opinions about the value of DIY and my corresponding criticism of their position on certain commercial speakers.
But such personal attacks and insults are definitely not allowed here under the rules of this forum.
I have been called names that are extremely derogatory and they have assailed my character and motivation as well.
On the other hand, I have been very careful to make sure that none of my comments were personal in nature, did not insult anyone, or impugn on their character.
So, I’m requesting that the moderators take control of this situation and perform the necessary actions to prevent personal attacks by these individuals on me or anyone else from happening in the future.
They apparently do not like my opinions about the value of DIY and my corresponding criticism of their position on certain commercial speakers.
But such personal attacks and insults are definitely not allowed here under the rules of this forum.
I have been called names that are extremely derogatory and they have assailed my character and motivation as well.
On the other hand, I have been very careful to make sure that none of my comments were personal in nature, did not insult anyone, or impugn on their character.
So, I’m requesting that the moderators take control of this situation and perform the necessary actions to prevent personal attacks by these individuals on me or anyone else from happening in the future.
There is also the problem of political comments by diyiggy in his Post #126 that are forbidden on this forum and have absolutely no place being here.
In fact that entire post is a rant against me and is not allowed.
Moderators please note these infractions and take appropriate action so that we are not exposed to any further similar rants.
In fact that entire post is a rant against me and is not allowed.
Moderators please note these infractions and take appropriate action so that we are not exposed to any further similar rants.
I have the Bordeaux speakers by Speaker Design Works. They are designed by Jim Holtz (I believe he is active on this forum) and Curt Campbell.
They are very very very good speakers. The other day, I was in a listening room testing the KEF blade speakers and the B&W 802 D3. The B&W's were hooked up to a bunch of Mac gear, monoblocks, CD transport, preamps etc. The Blades were hooked up to Classe.
While the bass was better on the B&W's (I'm using a little firstwatt F6 and a 20 year old CD player's DAC) the microdetail, soundstage and depth of the Bordeaux speakers was better to my ears.
The KEF had a warmer sound so it was harder to compare but I prefer the sound of the Bordeaux better.
I guess what I am getting at is that the Bordeaux is only a 1600ish dollar kit but competes at this level.
Jim designed the cabinets to be simple to build with very detailed plans. That should help with a cabinetmakers bid.
Best of luck. I didn't see a room size but you have to have them 12" off of the wall. They are deep speakers as well. I use them in my medium to small living room and they have been perfect.
They are very very very good speakers. The other day, I was in a listening room testing the KEF blade speakers and the B&W 802 D3. The B&W's were hooked up to a bunch of Mac gear, monoblocks, CD transport, preamps etc. The Blades were hooked up to Classe.
While the bass was better on the B&W's (I'm using a little firstwatt F6 and a 20 year old CD player's DAC) the microdetail, soundstage and depth of the Bordeaux speakers was better to my ears.
The KEF had a warmer sound so it was harder to compare but I prefer the sound of the Bordeaux better.
I guess what I am getting at is that the Bordeaux is only a 1600ish dollar kit but competes at this level.
Jim designed the cabinets to be simple to build with very detailed plans. That should help with a cabinetmakers bid.
Best of luck. I didn't see a room size but you have to have them 12" off of the wall. They are deep speakers as well. I use them in my medium to small living room and they have been perfect.