I have a number of various (mostly folding) commercial stands made of steel or aluminum tubing like microphone stands, guitar stands, boom mic stands, speaker stands, lighting stands, etc. I'm not talking about big home stereo monitor stands or anything like that. I like folding legs because they facilitate compact transportation. Light weight is less important to me unless it scales up to where I'm moving a whole lot of stands; lightness is just a convenient attribute for transportation but judicious application of additional weight might make stands more stable or maybe deaden them from undesirable acoustic resonances. I am frankly shocked that the robust market in stands has not produced much innovation in damping or isolation compared to the progress in folding compactly for transport.
So, my Starfish guitar stand, for example is very stable despite a small footprint because it has 5 legs instead of the usual 3. But it might be even more stable if just the foot ends of the legs weighed a bit more. Adding just a little more weight to the extreme tips of the legs (where it really matters) might make it less likely to tip. This might be especially useful when the hinged legs are held deployed via a sliding collar and secondary arms; an individual leg will not try to fold in a partial tip-over. So what should I try to fill the ends of hollow legs with? I want something cheap and heavy that will not settle. Gluing in lead slugs seems attractive, if I had appropriate lead slugs lying around. A glue slurry loaded with sand or BB shot is a possibility, but that much glue would need to be cheap, set without requiring a long time for the evaporation of a volatile solvent, and not shrink. A flexible polyester or epoxy glue is a possibility, and I know there are appropriate flex additives for both available, but for a price (as if epoxy wasn't already expensive enough).
I have considered spraying some kind of expanding urea insulation foam into the inner pipes of all microphone stands. Not that they frequently have problems unless someone bumps one... it might also be possible to find some kind of insulation bead and glue that in, or pull (or jam) some rectangular-section door seal weatherstrip into the tubes?
Same goes for speaker stands, where admittedly the excitation energy is present but it is not amplified much (perhaps by floor or speaker enclosure box). Providing a more stable solid anchor to absorb vibrations from the speaker enclosure might be a more noble goal.
What do you guys think? Am I just over-thinking this, a knee-jerk DIY freak trying to devise a solution to another problem that doesn't actually exist? Are there approaches so easy and cheap that the return on investment of time and money is worth pursuing?
So, my Starfish guitar stand, for example is very stable despite a small footprint because it has 5 legs instead of the usual 3. But it might be even more stable if just the foot ends of the legs weighed a bit more. Adding just a little more weight to the extreme tips of the legs (where it really matters) might make it less likely to tip. This might be especially useful when the hinged legs are held deployed via a sliding collar and secondary arms; an individual leg will not try to fold in a partial tip-over. So what should I try to fill the ends of hollow legs with? I want something cheap and heavy that will not settle. Gluing in lead slugs seems attractive, if I had appropriate lead slugs lying around. A glue slurry loaded with sand or BB shot is a possibility, but that much glue would need to be cheap, set without requiring a long time for the evaporation of a volatile solvent, and not shrink. A flexible polyester or epoxy glue is a possibility, and I know there are appropriate flex additives for both available, but for a price (as if epoxy wasn't already expensive enough).
I have considered spraying some kind of expanding urea insulation foam into the inner pipes of all microphone stands. Not that they frequently have problems unless someone bumps one... it might also be possible to find some kind of insulation bead and glue that in, or pull (or jam) some rectangular-section door seal weatherstrip into the tubes?
Same goes for speaker stands, where admittedly the excitation energy is present but it is not amplified much (perhaps by floor or speaker enclosure box). Providing a more stable solid anchor to absorb vibrations from the speaker enclosure might be a more noble goal.
What do you guys think? Am I just over-thinking this, a knee-jerk DIY freak trying to devise a solution to another problem that doesn't actually exist? Are there approaches so easy and cheap that the return on investment of time and money is worth pursuing?
he's asking for ideas on making his stage stands more stable.
Low tech, but in many live situations, a few sandbags draped over the legs or crossmembers helps. Of course your speaker stands won;t tip until the center of gravity exceeds the footprint, and that won;t happen unless someone pushes them or a huge gale springs up.
Just an opinion, but I don;t think it needs to be weighted at the ends of the feet, just the whole base needs to be heavier. Sandbags are not pretty, but barbell weights are plain old discs with a hole in the center. If a mic stand is tippy, a flat disc slipped over the vertical stand tube before the mic clamp is fitted will make it much more secure on the floor. They come in black as well as bright colors.
When I was on the road, I preferred the old style traditional cast metal round bases to the newer folding splayed leg kind. The heavy base was stable without adding to stage clutter. True, a folding stand just folds at the end of the night, and my kind you have to spin the bases off if you want to pack them. Or just leave them assembled and stand them up in the truck.
Lead fishing weights down the legs ought to work, how much lead weight would that be all told? In this modern era, do they still sell fishing weights made of lead?
Maybe I am crazy, but a tube full of lead shot, packed firmly ought not need a lot of glue, I'd wager plain old enamel paint drizzled in there would set up and hold them fast. Or maybe some silicone caulk squirted in there with a caulking gun.
I have never seen concern over acoustic resonances or anything similar. Speakers won;t care, nor will music stands. Only mic stands as far as I can tell would care, and most mics are made to mount without picking up excess stand noise.
Low tech, but in many live situations, a few sandbags draped over the legs or crossmembers helps. Of course your speaker stands won;t tip until the center of gravity exceeds the footprint, and that won;t happen unless someone pushes them or a huge gale springs up.
Just an opinion, but I don;t think it needs to be weighted at the ends of the feet, just the whole base needs to be heavier. Sandbags are not pretty, but barbell weights are plain old discs with a hole in the center. If a mic stand is tippy, a flat disc slipped over the vertical stand tube before the mic clamp is fitted will make it much more secure on the floor. They come in black as well as bright colors.
When I was on the road, I preferred the old style traditional cast metal round bases to the newer folding splayed leg kind. The heavy base was stable without adding to stage clutter. True, a folding stand just folds at the end of the night, and my kind you have to spin the bases off if you want to pack them. Or just leave them assembled and stand them up in the truck.
Lead fishing weights down the legs ought to work, how much lead weight would that be all told? In this modern era, do they still sell fishing weights made of lead?
Maybe I am crazy, but a tube full of lead shot, packed firmly ought not need a lot of glue, I'd wager plain old enamel paint drizzled in there would set up and hold them fast. Or maybe some silicone caulk squirted in there with a caulking gun.
I have never seen concern over acoustic resonances or anything similar. Speakers won;t care, nor will music stands. Only mic stands as far as I can tell would care, and most mics are made to mount without picking up excess stand noise.
I guess my question was, or should have been, why have stands made strides in portability but not performance issues like stability and vibration isolation? I guess there have been improvements in boom pivots and telescoping clutches. And am I nuts to even think about stands in terms of acoustic performance...for mic stands at the least... I get the impression the mfgrs don't test on questionable stage surfaces...
When I used speaker stands all the time, like overloaded with stacked Bose 808 modules back in the day, I used guy wires (ratchetting tie-down straps really) to stakes that screwed into the ground.
I used to travel with the big cast iron Atlas studio stands with a chrome-dome center and a rather triangular base and the overheads had wheels on short outrigger brackets...a real pain to move. Vocalists would attempt tricks with smaller round atlas, stunts which are not possible with tripod mike stands. Drunks would trip on a wire and make mics crash and die. There's a lot of new stuff available, and some of the economical stuff has gotten a lot better. OnStage brand stuff is cheap and doesn't sag and droop like early booms did. Ultimate brand booms have a keyway to index position at the clutch: the boom beyond the adjustment clutch cannot rotate if the load on the end has weight off-center, so you don't have to hang your mic the way gravity dictates or worry about a telescopic boom twisting later, you can have the mic weight off-center to the side or up etc. That feature makes telescoping booms a better alternative to counterweights. Some stands with oval-section aluminum legs are very low-profile for getting under a drum etc. I haven't shopped in a long time.
I've been getting shock isolation mounts when possible. Rubber donut types (that don't block view) instead of clips if the mic won't be hand-held, like for a guitarist. Rubber band suspension types for mics on instruments and amps. I've seen foam pads for under mic stand feet, like the ones from Auralex, and foam pads for under round stands (the pads sure look like they would make it unstable). But I've only seen any in-line rubber isolation mount from Neumann for a ridiculous outrageous price. I bought a used RE20 and paid more for the isolation mount and the stand. What can you do for a mic in a clip or a wireless mic in a clip on a stand, to minimize vibration from the floor thru the stand? The best I've come up with is heavier mics with better internal decoupling mounts for the actual capsule.
Sorry if I'm thinking out loud, admittedly there's no clear question in this reply from me either...just confusion seeking clarity.
When I used speaker stands all the time, like overloaded with stacked Bose 808 modules back in the day, I used guy wires (ratchetting tie-down straps really) to stakes that screwed into the ground.
I used to travel with the big cast iron Atlas studio stands with a chrome-dome center and a rather triangular base and the overheads had wheels on short outrigger brackets...a real pain to move. Vocalists would attempt tricks with smaller round atlas, stunts which are not possible with tripod mike stands. Drunks would trip on a wire and make mics crash and die. There's a lot of new stuff available, and some of the economical stuff has gotten a lot better. OnStage brand stuff is cheap and doesn't sag and droop like early booms did. Ultimate brand booms have a keyway to index position at the clutch: the boom beyond the adjustment clutch cannot rotate if the load on the end has weight off-center, so you don't have to hang your mic the way gravity dictates or worry about a telescopic boom twisting later, you can have the mic weight off-center to the side or up etc. That feature makes telescoping booms a better alternative to counterweights. Some stands with oval-section aluminum legs are very low-profile for getting under a drum etc. I haven't shopped in a long time.
I've been getting shock isolation mounts when possible. Rubber donut types (that don't block view) instead of clips if the mic won't be hand-held, like for a guitarist. Rubber band suspension types for mics on instruments and amps. I've seen foam pads for under mic stand feet, like the ones from Auralex, and foam pads for under round stands (the pads sure look like they would make it unstable). But I've only seen any in-line rubber isolation mount from Neumann for a ridiculous outrageous price. I bought a used RE20 and paid more for the isolation mount and the stand. What can you do for a mic in a clip or a wireless mic in a clip on a stand, to minimize vibration from the floor thru the stand? The best I've come up with is heavier mics with better internal decoupling mounts for the actual capsule.
Sorry if I'm thinking out loud, admittedly there's no clear question in this reply from me either...just confusion seeking clarity.
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If you buy epoxy in a small glue bottle it's crazy expensive but when you buy it per litre or so, it boils down to about 10 - 20 bucks per litre. Used often for boats, cars and alike, shops often also sell polyester which is about half-price compared to epoxy but polyester is more prone to shrink.
However, take some lead (ball bearing or rooftop material), scrap steel/ copper, poor in some epoxy or polyester, let it set for 4 hours and it will never get loose again (might want to use a sandpaper on the inner wall first though).
Steel and copper weigh around 8000 kg/m^3, lead 12000 kg/m^3, tungsten carbide 15000 kg/m^3, but get some gold or depleted uranium around 19000 kg/m^3 and your really set (as are your stands).
Best regards Johan
However, take some lead (ball bearing or rooftop material), scrap steel/ copper, poor in some epoxy or polyester, let it set for 4 hours and it will never get loose again (might want to use a sandpaper on the inner wall first though).
Steel and copper weigh around 8000 kg/m^3, lead 12000 kg/m^3, tungsten carbide 15000 kg/m^3, but get some gold or depleted uranium around 19000 kg/m^3 and your really set (as are your stands).
Best regards Johan
As far as isolation, except for rubber mic clips (like for Shure tapered-handle mics) and rubber-band suspension systems, there's surprisingly few products in the marketplace. I was looking for something that would screw inline between the mic clip and the mic stand. You'd think there would be some such device, a tube or cup filled with silicone rubber or something, with another rod stuck into the goo... Should be able to make one in China for $1 and sell it here for $5 or $10. But NOOOO the only one on the market is the Z 26 MT from Neumann, lists for $129 to $149 depending on who you believe, but always sells for exactly $99.95. I can't find any reviews or comments because nobody can afford them unless you can afford a Neumann mic...
Neumann Inline Microphone Shock Mount Fits Between Stand and Mount Z 26 MT | eBay
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...d=0ahUKEwiR3ITUkdHMAhUKpB4KHV8IDqIQ8wIIjQUwAQ
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...d=0ahUKEwiR3ITUkdHMAhUKpB4KHV8IDqIQ8wIIhgUwAA
Neumann Inline Microphone Shock Mount Fits Between Stand and Mount Z 26 MT | eBay
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...d=0ahUKEwiR3ITUkdHMAhUKpB4KHV8IDqIQ8wIIjQUwAQ
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...d=0ahUKEwiR3ITUkdHMAhUKpB4KHV8IDqIQ8wIIhgUwAA
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