Thanks Rob,
The thing is I've been told by pople I trust that the miniDSP, is slow and "blurry" (sorry for my poor English here) compared to passive xo.
Starting to feel uncomfortabele here, lots of suggestions, but none are good enough for me...
Just trying to do some research before spending time and money.
The thing is I've been told by pople I trust that the miniDSP, is slow and "blurry" (sorry for my poor English here) compared to passive xo.
Starting to feel uncomfortabele here, lots of suggestions, but none are good enough for me...
Just trying to do some research before spending time and money.
I use an Electrovoice Dx38. It's 2-in and 4-out. I then added a pair of Danley DTS-10 subs and needed some PEQ's for them.
I bought a second Dx38 and feed its input from the parallel output on the first Dx.
Now I'm looking at a similar or better active that has 6 or 8 outputs, leaning towards 8.
This got me looking around and reading about the Ashly and Sabine units. Downloaded the software to play with and install my curves...only to find a couple round pegs and square holes.
I've learned that the market in active crossovers isn't standardized so if you get factory PEQ's and other paramaters as ascertained by the lab at the factory, you run the risk of having a different curve on your speakers if your brand of crossover isn't the same as the factory's brand.
Case in point, I've got a pair of Klipsch speakers and actively biamp. I specifically bought the same crossover the factory uses. I bought it however, because I'm a dummy with them and wanted to be able to get help programming it if I needed help (I never did, these are not rocket science)
Fast forward to today and now I'm learning that if I yank my current active and insert one of the above (or presumably any other brand), I'm running the risk of the output sound not being the same as my Dx because of the differences in how different brands are designed.
I've attached an article that was posted on the Klipsch forum that gets into this.
I thought it was interesting and a little strange that there isn't some standardization with respect to input of parameters and the final output curve.
I bought a second Dx38 and feed its input from the parallel output on the first Dx.
Now I'm looking at a similar or better active that has 6 or 8 outputs, leaning towards 8.
This got me looking around and reading about the Ashly and Sabine units. Downloaded the software to play with and install my curves...only to find a couple round pegs and square holes.
I've learned that the market in active crossovers isn't standardized so if you get factory PEQ's and other paramaters as ascertained by the lab at the factory, you run the risk of having a different curve on your speakers if your brand of crossover isn't the same as the factory's brand.
Case in point, I've got a pair of Klipsch speakers and actively biamp. I specifically bought the same crossover the factory uses. I bought it however, because I'm a dummy with them and wanted to be able to get help programming it if I needed help (I never did, these are not rocket science)
Fast forward to today and now I'm learning that if I yank my current active and insert one of the above (or presumably any other brand), I'm running the risk of the output sound not being the same as my Dx because of the differences in how different brands are designed.
I've attached an article that was posted on the Klipsch forum that gets into this.
I thought it was interesting and a little strange that there isn't some standardization with respect to input of parameters and the final output curve.
Sorry but why should he hear a hiss with a mini dsp ? Do you have this experience? I have horns and a minidsp HD and I don't hear any hiss apart the hiss of the amps. My mini is running at full volume.
Chris
Chris
Yes, in my system with a regular 2x8 there is some hiss. My pre-amp and my power amps are otherwise dead silent.
Hi JRL,
You could be interested in Ultimate Equalizer V4 shown on Bodzio Software
It's much more than an active crossover. Major characteristics of Ultimate Equalizer system are:
Bohdan
You could be interested in Ultimate Equalizer V4 shown on Bodzio Software
It's much more than an active crossover. Major characteristics of Ultimate Equalizer system are:
- Active system – allows amplifiers to exert maximum control over loudspeaker driver and makes crossover characteristics independent of driver loading.
- DSP crossover and voicing – maintains crossover and voicing characteristics with mathematical precision.
- Amplitude and phase HBT equalization – results in flat amplitude and phase responses and extends bass response.
- Linear phase – maintains 0deg acoustical phase response of each driver, which results in transient-perfect system for correct spatial imaging (realism, depth, resolution, ambience) for multi-channel sound reproduction. Also removes “flabby bass”.
- Minimum-phase/Linear-phase room EQ – removes most obnoxious room modes.
- Remote control – via 2.4GHz wireless keyboard and mouse.
- Use Windows Media Player, or install JRivers Player – to create audio server and state-of-the-art loudspeaker management system (user-friendliness, power, flexibility, cost efficiency and sound quality) on one HTPC.
Bohdan
what can I say
I have no experience with DSP
but I know they have almost endless adjustment options
so i guess there is just as many ways it can go wrong too
no doubt one reason why you must do measurements when using DSP
and you also still have to know a bit about how crossovers work with speakers
or else I can imagine you might have same disappointing experience
in other words, DSP is not a plug and play thing
'ordinary' active is more a plug and play thing
but thats the problem it has...
slopes are fixed, and you can't change them to match the drivers
another question is, how good does it have to be
meaning, where is going to be used, and how
anyone mentioned Ground Sound ?
http://groundsound.com/
that said, Im thinking about building at least a tweeter amp with built in active xo
a chip amp with active xo on input would be simple
but then, I already have good enough sound
so its just to have some fun
DEQX...?
Hi JRL,
I have used DEQX in standard and modified guises for nearly 10 years... its a fab piece of DSP.
Only the Dolby Lake ( now discontinued / sold to Lab Grupen) was a wee bit better at over double the price.
But a decade is a long time in DSP and now you can do basically everything it does with a PC. I am heading down this road and going to build my own.
You can build a battery powered, fanless PC with an onboard 4 way crossover and sound card ( digi out, so you can use your own DAC's) and all the bells and whistles ie WiFi mother board, iCore 5 35 watt chip, windows 8, JRiver 18, JPlay 5b, Blue Cat & Fab Filter software, SSD memory, SOTA USB to I2S input and loads more, for about £1,500.
I will be selling my lovely custom DEQX ( Acrylic case, battery power, stainless steel back plate) soon for £1,000... less than a third of what I paid for the parts,
if you dont fancy building your own PC based solution.
PM if you want the DEQX...Its 10KG but you can get away with it as hand luggage!!!
Cheers
D.
Hi JRL,
I have used DEQX in standard and modified guises for nearly 10 years... its a fab piece of DSP.
Only the Dolby Lake ( now discontinued / sold to Lab Grupen) was a wee bit better at over double the price.
But a decade is a long time in DSP and now you can do basically everything it does with a PC. I am heading down this road and going to build my own.
You can build a battery powered, fanless PC with an onboard 4 way crossover and sound card ( digi out, so you can use your own DAC's) and all the bells and whistles ie WiFi mother board, iCore 5 35 watt chip, windows 8, JRiver 18, JPlay 5b, Blue Cat & Fab Filter software, SSD memory, SOTA USB to I2S input and loads more, for about £1,500.
I will be selling my lovely custom DEQX ( Acrylic case, battery power, stainless steel back plate) soon for £1,000... less than a third of what I paid for the parts,
if you dont fancy building your own PC based solution.
PM if you want the DEQX...Its 10KG but you can get away with it as hand luggage!!!
Cheers
D.
The problem with several of these active crossovers is the price. $4000 to $5000 USD for an active XO is asking a lot for many people, especially after buying the drivers, building cabinets and amplifiers. On the other end of the scale (because there is a wide gap) we suddenly drop into the sub-$600 active crossover range which is often still overpriced for what we get, and several of them have very silly limited functionality or just sound poor like a 1990s CD player aliasing. Kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater because it opens the sound to a higher resolution while adding a character that makes cymbals and high hats sound edgy or like splashing water and sends the cat running across the floor. Those are some the problems with occasional active setups right now. While some will suit some listeners, some of these units hiss, send a transient or series of noises on powerup, or make the system sound wooly and dry like a PA system. Many will argue that DACs and Opamps all sound the same or at least their affect on the audio signal is minimal, I just haven't found that to be the case. The software is another area to pay attention because not all active crossovers feature 0 phase. I often wonder if much of this gear is designed by techs who build completely based on what their modelling program and scope tells them, possibly with limited high frequency hearing. The 2496 is not something I would use in any serious setup I designed. In some speakers where a first order network is possible, the sonic collateral damage will be much lower with a passive network than that caused by the additional ADC, programming and DAC using $1.50 chipsets. Where an active crossover is used with video, latency may be a concern.
The Ground Sound DCX24 and Hypex DLCP look interesting, but the descriptions leaves several questions to someone who have never used the particular boards, and neither are particularly low cost for still being DIY. My major questions regard output safety such as delayed power on and mode or static discharge protection. Replacing tweeters or midranges can be costly.
The Ground Sound DCX24 and Hypex DLCP look interesting, but the descriptions leaves several questions to someone who have never used the particular boards, and neither are particularly low cost for still being DIY. My major questions regard output safety such as delayed power on and mode or static discharge protection. Replacing tweeters or midranges can be costly.
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The newer DEQX units like the HDP-4 have digital inputs and limited switching support between them as well as a volume control. So you can consider them a DAC/Pre-amp/XO combination. So that makes the price a little easier to swallow.
I have recently upgraded from a GroundSound DCN24 to a DEQX HDP-4. The DEQX is clearly superior.
3 years ago when I purchased the GroundSound DCN24 I also considered using a PC. But things weren't as developed as they are now. Even today it would take a lot of effort to duplicate what you get automatically from DEQX. I agree the DEQX isn't a traditional DIY product.
I kind of though the DEQX would be several notches up as they appear, at least, to be a company that prides itself on the sound quality and what they use internally. How would you describe the sound of the DCN24 compared to the DEQX HDP-4 (I only assume it was with the same drivers and electronics)? The next time I go active, I'll be using TAD's drivers and I know from their performance with passive crossovers, they are utmost telling. I like pure sounding drivers because they allow the sound to change with different amplification and recordings, but digital crossovers have proved to be a little challenge in some regards. Part of what holds me back from spending any great deal on them has been an issue I had with a high prices HT processor a while back when a chip decided to have a bad day.
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Anyone run across any really good active crossover kits? Doing a search, most of what I have seen looks pretty basic and designed more for low cost than for optimum performance.
As far as commercial units, there is also the Bryston, but it isn't much better price wise Than the Pass. They go for fairly reasonable prices used though.
As far as commercial units, there is also the Bryston, but it isn't much better price wise Than the Pass. They go for fairly reasonable prices used though.
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