Hello, I want to use an active crossover in my 3 way system for the low/mid separation. The bass wil be a Lambda SB12 (in 125 liter sealed box), the mid is not yet certain, could be Scanspeak, Acouton, Eton or something like that. I want to cross around 150 Hz.
Bass amp wil be a Plinius SA50, mid/high Aleph5.
My options for the Xover:
1. the Pass diy Xover (when and if it comes through. I don't think I can wait for the Pass design for more than a couple of months)
2. The tubed Xover of Glassware/Tube Cad: http://www.tubecad.com/articles_2001/Tube-Based_Crossovers/
Eg as a 6/18 dB Butterworth at 140 Hz. No level adjustment as far as I can see.
3. The Thel crossover SAW30: http://www.thel-audioworld.de/module/saw/saw.htm
Looks very flexibel, but I have no idea how it works (what kind of filter etc). will cost me 420 euro with enclosere.
4. The XM9 kit of Machand: http://www.marchandelec.com/xm9.htm Will cost me $299-$449 plus an extra $120 or so for transportation and taxes. bit expensive.
5. Something from this Duch company: BMM: http://www.bmm-electronics.nl/Product.asp?Product_ID=7 (maybe you have to click the English flag)
Not expensive (200 euro), uses NE5532 opamps, only no level adjustment, only a pair of resistors (op potmeter) in the high output
6. Something based on this kit: http://www.snippets.org/filters/crossover.htm
What is a good choice? How much does it really matter. Are "tubes" better than opamps for this (somehow it bothers me to put opamps before the Aleph)?
I have red something about that a 24 dB LR filter at very low frequenties (below 300 Hz) is not so good. Is that thru??
Bass amp wil be a Plinius SA50, mid/high Aleph5.
My options for the Xover:
1. the Pass diy Xover (when and if it comes through. I don't think I can wait for the Pass design for more than a couple of months)
2. The tubed Xover of Glassware/Tube Cad: http://www.tubecad.com/articles_2001/Tube-Based_Crossovers/
Eg as a 6/18 dB Butterworth at 140 Hz. No level adjustment as far as I can see.
3. The Thel crossover SAW30: http://www.thel-audioworld.de/module/saw/saw.htm
Looks very flexibel, but I have no idea how it works (what kind of filter etc). will cost me 420 euro with enclosere.
4. The XM9 kit of Machand: http://www.marchandelec.com/xm9.htm Will cost me $299-$449 plus an extra $120 or so for transportation and taxes. bit expensive.
5. Something from this Duch company: BMM: http://www.bmm-electronics.nl/Product.asp?Product_ID=7 (maybe you have to click the English flag)
Not expensive (200 euro), uses NE5532 opamps, only no level adjustment, only a pair of resistors (op potmeter) in the high output
6. Something based on this kit: http://www.snippets.org/filters/crossover.htm
What is a good choice? How much does it really matter. Are "tubes" better than opamps for this (somehow it bothers me to put opamps before the Aleph)?
I have red something about that a 24 dB LR filter at very low frequenties (below 300 Hz) is not so good. Is that thru??
Just to let you know I'm watching this thread.
I need to DIY the XO, and I'm looking at using the ESP XO schematics http://sound.westhost.com/project09.htm , using the RC calculator on the site, and have already bought components for 150 Hz and 5000 Hz XO points - nothing flash, stock 1% MFRs and green chinese film caps, using TL074 as opamps.
I am also balking at constructing this monster three way XO on veroboard - it will require two opamps per filter, per channel, and my total including buffers is 20 opamps total (16 for the filter, 4 buffers😱), 40 film caps, and 40 filter resistors - and that's only the filter sections, plus power supply, decoupling, level adjustment... On striped veroboard.
I also have fewer options in terms of international purchase, customs clearance, etc. The individual crossover modules are also available from Marchand, maybe you can add your own PSU?
I also wrote to John Pomann for basic info, and his offer is really tempting, but for the fact that hardwiring will still be involved as the 'PCB' is a vero-type board with generic traces. I know it is a better choice than components I can get locally, but I have decided to build first and then figure out things as I go along.
I need to DIY the XO, and I'm looking at using the ESP XO schematics http://sound.westhost.com/project09.htm , using the RC calculator on the site, and have already bought components for 150 Hz and 5000 Hz XO points - nothing flash, stock 1% MFRs and green chinese film caps, using TL074 as opamps.
I am also balking at constructing this monster three way XO on veroboard - it will require two opamps per filter, per channel, and my total including buffers is 20 opamps total (16 for the filter, 4 buffers😱), 40 film caps, and 40 filter resistors - and that's only the filter sections, plus power supply, decoupling, level adjustment... On striped veroboard.
I also have fewer options in terms of international purchase, customs clearance, etc. The individual crossover modules are also available from Marchand, maybe you can add your own PSU?
I also wrote to John Pomann for basic info, and his offer is really tempting, but for the fact that hardwiring will still be involved as the 'PCB' is a vero-type board with generic traces. I know it is a better choice than components I can get locally, but I have decided to build first and then figure out things as I go along.
You could use transistors instead:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1735&highlight=2n5457
I made some test-pcbs that could be used for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd order HP or LP. I did it in a real hurry so they are nothing special...made for BJTs but could be used with JFETs with some pin twisting. I'd be happy to send you the layout if you want it. Should be easy to etch single sided if you P2P the grounds.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1735&highlight=2n5457
I made some test-pcbs that could be used for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd order HP or LP. I did it in a real hurry so they are nothing special...made for BJTs but could be used with JFETs with some pin twisting. I'd be happy to send you the layout if you want it. Should be easy to etch single sided if you P2P the grounds.
Thanks for the tips so far.
In that case it might be a temporary solution until the Pass is born 🙂
Anybody has some comments on the Thel crossover?
I know, no English. Its giving me a hard time too.
Good luck with it. I'm hoping to save me some time by buying most the parts in kitform.
I know about the Behringer. Fact that it is so cheap worries me a bit. I'm trying build a "no compromise" system here (well, get close to that) 😉 Also I wonder wether there would be a mismatch connecting a "pro product" to a "consumer electronics product". I thougth the "pro world" uses higer output/input levels (and XLR/balanced of course)?? Or am I seeing gosts here?
In that case it might be a temporary solution until the Pass is born 🙂
I will
Interresting thread. although I am rather hoping to buy something more "of the shelf", don't want to spend a lot of time collecting parts and so on.
Anybody has some comments on the Thel crossover?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I know, no English. Its giving me a hard time too.
im in the process of building on of these (olny the hi-pass section)
http://members.aol.com/sbench101/Crossover/xover.gif
i realise your after a kit. but all the parts are easily obtainable.
http://members.aol.com/sbench101/Crossover/xover.gif
i realise your after a kit. but all the parts are easily obtainable.
Re: gadverpiellekus
I see different Xovers (eg http://www.borbelyaudio.com/xover.pdf , EB-1102/215 and 216, EB-994/113 and so on). Will have to do some more reading on this.
Bit expensive though ( a complete kit for euro 695). Quality looks good.
Yes I knew that one too (but forgot it). German company, so no custom taxes (for me).Leeuwarden said:
I see different Xovers (eg http://www.borbelyaudio.com/xover.pdf , EB-1102/215 and 216, EB-994/113 and so on). Will have to do some more reading on this.
Bit expensive though ( a complete kit for euro 695). Quality looks good.
Duck-Twacy said:
Nelson's crossover has been on this forum for quite some time now. You probably just didn't notice😉
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=37425#post37425
It's not his latest word, but as good as crossover gets. You might substitute for some new Fets to keep it updated. I'm using that crossover for my subs and it's good. It got good reviews as well.
Thanks for that info. Is it based on some Treshold product from 1988. Wow, how about progress 😉
Funny to see so many different opinions om crossovers...
Does sombody have any experience with the tubed crossover form Tube-cad. Will the use of tubes give better results then with opamps?
Funny to see so many different opinions om crossovers...
Does sombody have any experience with the tubed crossover form Tube-cad. Will the use of tubes give better results then with opamps?
Duck-Twacy said:
There is not much progress when it comes to crossovers, unless you go digital.
If you look at the latest design from Pass Labs it's not that different, except for more settings😉
Okay, not much progress in this field. However I'm really looking for the of the shelf kits here, most of which are using opamps.
But can sombody enlighten me wether using opamps in de Xover is okay or not when you really want to get a good hifi system. For example I'm planning to "modify" my CD player with the LCaudio discrete zapfilter. Now if I use opamps in the Xover, isn't that a litle bit silly. Or is that a very different thing???
So will I be "spoiling" my Aleph5 if I feed it with an opamp based crossover, or is that silly???
But can sombody enlighten me wether using opamps in de Xover is okay or not when you really want to get a good hifi system. For example I'm planning to "modify" my CD player with the LCaudio discrete zapfilter. Now if I use opamps in the Xover, isn't that a litle bit silly. Or is that a very different thing???
So will I be "spoiling" my Aleph5 if I feed it with an opamp based crossover, or is that silly???
You might use just a series cap at Aleph's input which will act as a first order filter and use active, third order filter on low pass amp. That's what I'm doing in order to get the best sound quality.
Hello Peter, That would mean a first order (6 dB/octave) filter for the high pass I guess. For me that would probably do, because 1 of the options for the mid/high section is using a high end 2 way monitor system (I'm thinking of Von Schwiekert VR1, which is 89 dB/watt).
But how about adjusting the signal levels. Wil a simple potmeter (or some resistors) in the high/mid section do to get things "even"??
(My low (< 130 Hz) section will be a pair of 85.5 dB/watt 12" Lambda units in a sealed box)?
But how about adjusting the signal levels. Wil a simple potmeter (or some resistors) in the high/mid section do to get things "even"??
(My low (< 130 Hz) section will be a pair of 85.5 dB/watt 12" Lambda units in a sealed box)?
I prefer not to adjust anything in a high/mid section. I use an active buffer stage for the subwoofer 3rd order filter (from Threshold) and I make sure that it has enough gain to match the level of mids and highs. I use a pot before that active filter and this is how I adjust the levels.
My crossover is around 120Hz, so the capacitor required in my Aleph X (actually 2 of them for both positive and negative inputs) are 0.22u. I use Jensen copper foil in parallel with 0.022 silver foil cap. Crossovers don't get much better than that.😉
My crossover is around 120Hz, so the capacitor required in my Aleph X (actually 2 of them for both positive and negative inputs) are 0.22u. I use Jensen copper foil in parallel with 0.022 silver foil cap. Crossovers don't get much better than that.😉
Peter Daniel said:
The Reveille of Welborne labs would be an example of that I guess.
http://www.welbornelabs.com/rev4.htm
Anybody any comment on that crossover. How is the active part (for a 18 dB lowpass around 130-150 Hz)??
Don't know if its available for 230 VAC though. Also a bit expensive.
(sry for kicking this ancient topic)
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