Early thinking over the next (future) project - some sketches:
Driver starting point is:
Tweeter: SB26WG or Seas DXT (both with waveguides). The SB I am familiar and happy with. The Seas seems well reviewed/measured and has a similar WG.
Mid: 12cm seems to blend with tweeters much better than 15cm, so likely stick with this size. ScanSpeak, either the Revelator or the Illuminator in 12cm 4Ohm
Woofers: thinking 22-28cm, e.g. Scanspeak Revelators 22cm or 28cm in 4Ohm.
DSP/Amp: Hypex FA503 or 253 (subject to power needs per WinISD simulation).
A single or dual sub will be added in future, 15in or 18in.
Cabinet proportions roughly per sketch, subject to box sim. Width a few cm larger that the woofer. Beveled front panel about 4cm. Either symmetrical or asymmetrical to further smooth out diffraction ripple. Indicator/IR sensor at front.
Prelim crossovers 200/250Hz and 2-3kHz.
Driver starting point is:
Tweeter: SB26WG or Seas DXT (both with waveguides). The SB I am familiar and happy with. The Seas seems well reviewed/measured and has a similar WG.
Mid: 12cm seems to blend with tweeters much better than 15cm, so likely stick with this size. ScanSpeak, either the Revelator or the Illuminator in 12cm 4Ohm
Woofers: thinking 22-28cm, e.g. Scanspeak Revelators 22cm or 28cm in 4Ohm.
DSP/Amp: Hypex FA503 or 253 (subject to power needs per WinISD simulation).
A single or dual sub will be added in future, 15in or 18in.
Cabinet proportions roughly per sketch, subject to box sim. Width a few cm larger that the woofer. Beveled front panel about 4cm. Either symmetrical or asymmetrical to further smooth out diffraction ripple. Indicator/IR sensor at front.
Prelim crossovers 200/250Hz and 2-3kHz.
Having a sub relieves the main speakers of a lot. My system uses a sealed 5.25" woofer in a 2-way. The 5.25" does not seem to have much problem playing loud enough for me. I can see where a 10" handling 80z to 300hz could add a little bit of tactile effect, but I don't miss that.
I would think that your latest speaker would do well with a good sub. In fact, I'd suggest trying them with a sub, just so you will know. Room position can make a big difference in bass. I measured bass response in my living room, and tried to optimize it. Ultimately, I just found a good location for the sub, and did not use EQ. Trying to make it perfect did not seem to make it sound better.
I have a Dayton RSS390HO in a sealed 100l box. The cone barely moves. I have several amps I use from time to time. A 100w plate amp seems to be sufficient for spirited rock at roughly 98dB. I have an Eagles concert DVD. The song "Get Over It" is my favorite tune for playing loud. I have a Nylons CD where they play a Zombies tune called "Time Of The Season" which is also awesome cranked up, but likely around 95dB. Dave Mathews performed the same at Red Rocks back in the early 2000s.
Most of what I listen to sounds good at around 85dB I think. Even at that level, the sub is a considerable step up from a pair of 3-ways in my room.
I would think that your latest speaker would do well with a good sub. In fact, I'd suggest trying them with a sub, just so you will know. Room position can make a big difference in bass. I measured bass response in my living room, and tried to optimize it. Ultimately, I just found a good location for the sub, and did not use EQ. Trying to make it perfect did not seem to make it sound better.
I have a Dayton RSS390HO in a sealed 100l box. The cone barely moves. I have several amps I use from time to time. A 100w plate amp seems to be sufficient for spirited rock at roughly 98dB. I have an Eagles concert DVD. The song "Get Over It" is my favorite tune for playing loud. I have a Nylons CD where they play a Zombies tune called "Time Of The Season" which is also awesome cranked up, but likely around 95dB. Dave Mathews performed the same at Red Rocks back in the early 2000s.
Most of what I listen to sounds good at around 85dB I think. Even at that level, the sub is a considerable step up from a pair of 3-ways in my room.
Last edited:
A version with larger drivers (17cm WG tweeter, 15cm mid and 28cm woofer). Front panel width 34cm.
Because I see you are considering very good and expensive drivers, I have to give few advices.
22W and 28W revelators are excellent drivers. Be careful what volume you will put them in.
To completement 12MU, you will need tweeeter without WG or just mild WG. I know all of these drivers well and I did several designs. T25S in Hificompass 104mms WG would be my choice. T25S sounds and measures great and will match 12MU sound character well. Avoid DXT. Avoid larger WGs.
LR2 targets for the crossovers. The combo I suggested will have acoustic centers well aligned so there will only small drivers delay corrections needed in DSP, likely no corrections at all. Same goes for FR corrections. All these drivers are very linear when you place them right on the baffle.
22W and 28W revelators are excellent drivers. Be careful what volume you will put them in.
To completement 12MU, you will need tweeeter without WG or just mild WG. I know all of these drivers well and I did several designs. T25S in Hificompass 104mms WG would be my choice. T25S sounds and measures great and will match 12MU sound character well. Avoid DXT. Avoid larger WGs.
LR2 targets for the crossovers. The combo I suggested will have acoustic centers well aligned so there will only small drivers delay corrections needed in DSP, likely no corrections at all. Same goes for FR corrections. All these drivers are very linear when you place them right on the baffle.
DXT sound character is not good match to Revelators, this is not about measurements and graphs. I know all these drivers well.
At mid - tweeter crossover you want to match directivity patterns of the midrange and the tweeter. This is the rule of thumb and it is good to have it in mind when you are at the beginning. But, the crossover slopes have an effect on the resulting directivity below and above Fc.
So, to make it short, 12MU or any other 4" mid + tweeter in 7inch WG is NO GO. The directivity of WG will be very likely too narrow to match 12MU. Additionaly, it would look weird.
I recommend you to study the project on the web and the directivities of the drivers (measured directivities!!!) and crossover slopes and resulting directivity of the speaker.
12MU + T25S + hificompass WG is one of the best combos you can think of. Measured performance will be excellent, and so the sound. You can trust me on that.
At mid - tweeter crossover you want to match directivity patterns of the midrange and the tweeter. This is the rule of thumb and it is good to have it in mind when you are at the beginning. But, the crossover slopes have an effect on the resulting directivity below and above Fc.
So, to make it short, 12MU or any other 4" mid + tweeter in 7inch WG is NO GO. The directivity of WG will be very likely too narrow to match 12MU. Additionaly, it would look weird.
I recommend you to study the project on the web and the directivities of the drivers (measured directivities!!!) and crossover slopes and resulting directivity of the speaker.
12MU + T25S + hificompass WG is one of the best combos you can think of. Measured performance will be excellent, and so the sound. You can trust me on that.
What does ‘match directivity patterns’ mean? Same distance between curves at xo point? Or smth else? How do I tell that the patterns match or do not match?
I do not have 12cm mid with 7in wg. I have 15cm with that wg. 12cm is with the much smaller sb26wg. Is that any better?
Yes, in simple, the distance in dB for 0-60deg at crossover point for mid and tweeter. It is beneficial they either match, or tweeter directivity is broader than midrange. In that case LR2 will take care of good merge.
12MU + SB26WG would be good combo, with respect to matching their directivities at Fc. Personally, I would not pair 12MU with SB26, but technically it is ok.
For smoothing the diffraction effects, an option could be to use, at tweeter and mid at least, a shaped, heavily rounded and possibly soft-surfaced baffle, without cosmetic finish. Then install a wire frame with stretched fabric to shape the external surface/finish. Smilar to what Vandersteen and B&O do. Baffle shape can be similar to @hifijim ‘s recent project.