Interesting, I noticed that too.
Visaton actually has done some impressive crossover designs.
But I did notice a good amount of overlap.
I assumed the overlap was intended for the specific design/ baffle
Since it seemed the frequencies were around 150 and 280 Hz
likely provides a natural 6 dB ish boost around 200 Hz
Visaton actually has done some impressive crossover designs.
But I did notice a good amount of overlap.
I assumed the overlap was intended for the specific design/ baffle
Since it seemed the frequencies were around 150 and 280 Hz
likely provides a natural 6 dB ish boost around 200 Hz
Also attached below is a Zip File with Audio Nirvana 12" super ferrite FRD file
and a Free Air ZMA and a ZMA for a 77 liter 38hz Fb
I also noticed Audio Nirvana does not include LE or inductance
So any cabinet simulation using provided TS parameters.
Will not show correct impedance rise.
You can add small amount of LE to models to get more accurate impedance rise
Otherwise only the free air impedance curve from data sheet will have somewhat correct rise
(edit) wow totally missed the text files in op
so guess I just added another copy....would have saved some time LOL
and a Free Air ZMA and a ZMA for a 77 liter 38hz Fb
I also noticed Audio Nirvana does not include LE or inductance
So any cabinet simulation using provided TS parameters.
Will not show correct impedance rise.
You can add small amount of LE to models to get more accurate impedance rise
Otherwise only the free air impedance curve from data sheet will have somewhat correct rise
(edit) wow totally missed the text files in op
so guess I just added another copy....would have saved some time LOL
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Around 96 dB to a 105 dB peak.....Without compensation. I was not too aggressive with compensation using 680uH and 6.8 ohms in post #23.
Because OP did not like midrange dip with previous circuits.
For a more aggressive , or say standard approach. Could change compensation to 1mH and 10 ohms.
Blue overlay shows no compensation, Green shows with compensation
Its full range, seems about normal.
Quite so; that said, if you're going to be running the AN in a quasi-omni fashion (off-axis, firing into a deflector) then a rising on-axis HF response is probably no bad thing as all that and probably more is likely to disappear. That's why [most] Lowthers have a rising on-axis response out to about 12KHz -they were originally designed for indirect loading, with the driver internally mounted & firing up through a corner horn. Sans the rising on-axis response, the HF would have been significantly attenuated.
A good serial crossover is often way more complex than you think. I did quiet a few and mostly i got a very complex crossover layout when i'm finished. This is a design i made for a TB FR and a SB woofer in sealed config for someone (no details as it's a paying project) as example. Just to show it's not an easier way to crossover then a parallel. It's a mixed 1st order (on FR) - 2nd order (on sub) serial with 2 notch filters in parallel to tame the FR and phase aligned. Measurements were done by the client (so i can't say how accurate they were) but it seems to have worked as he is very happy with my design.
It is not complex, it is difficult to implement because of other factors.
The magic of 1st order series xo lies in its simplicity.
You need very well behaved drivers that match each other in many ways and then apply only the bare basics, a cap and a coil and maybe a series resistor for the top driver.
Yes, physical alignment is important as are ways to deal with diffraction or panel resonances.
Anything else, Zobels, LCRs, L-pads, additional coils to deal with BSC, destroy all your effort and then you are better off with a parallel xo.
It all may look fine in Xsim but when you listen you'll immediately notice that it does not sound right.
And listening is your ultimate tool, no SpecAn or a distortion analyzer will tell you how a particular speaker will sound. Only your ears can do that.
A 2way 1st order series xo must create the illusion that you are listening to a single driver. Otherwise you are wasting your time.
I think your fooling yourself on that. I have both single driver speakers without any crossover and with this kind of serial crossover, even with the same driver, and the difference in sound quality is better with this crossover as the driver is forced to behave better. It's just that you need to avoid big phase issues (often the case with multiway drivers, what gives crossovers a bad name) and point source (so crosso the woofer low enough it does not matter anymore for that). Just a coil and a cap does not make a good crossover in most cases as the drivers are not phase aligned and the frequency response is often all over the place. And often the driver are also not balanced on sensivity.
And in this scheme the only thing that is in series with the fullrange is a resistor to balance the FR sensivity to the woofer., the rest is not in series between the amp and the fullrange driver.
And in this scheme the only thing that is in series with the fullrange is a resistor to balance the FR sensivity to the woofer., the rest is not in series between the amp and the fullrange driver.
From what I gather a serial xo might cause me more headache than salvation. But it is a listening and learning experience since I've never ran a serial xo before.
The rising response of the AN isn't as bad as it may seem (thought it is definitely present). Because of the whizzer cone, there's considerable phase adding and subtraction around the high mid area. This seems considerable in the graphs, but it is only on-axis. Off-axis the response tames pretty quickly. Phase peaks and valleys shift continuously depending on the listener's position. If you sit in one spot all day, you ears will probably get fatigued, but my ADHD-derrière can't sit still. I move around a lot, and when doing so the AN's sound becomes even and balanced, in my opinion. Unlike the graph might make one think. It's a driver that doesn't do too well on paper at first sight, but upon close examination does a lot right. Not a lot of cone break-up for a full-range, though I do still intent to treat the cones with the EnABL method. Lastly the ANs have some very redeeming qualities, depth, magic, dynamics, realism. In my opinion, it's a driver worth jumping through a lot hoops for. It needs some help in the bass department though. It goes down deep but it doesn't do it as nicely as a true sub would.
Besides that, a woofer firing into an cone often has somewhat of an inherent falling response, so usually a rising response evens out favourably with omni speakers
FWIW, the drivers will be biamped so that sensitivies can be matched without decreasing the ANs dynamics. This also makes it easy to DSP the subs without contaminating the midrange. From what I've gathered, I think that for this reason a series crossover might not be optimal. I am glad I've learnt about it though. I am hoping to roll off the ANs in an acoustic way, or via a passive xo that doesn't cause phase shift or attenuation in the midrange. A criterium is to keep the ANs 'pure'
Thanks for the circuits. They look very nice. I learn from them. I'll sim all of em and see which ones I would like to try to build!
The rising response of the AN isn't as bad as it may seem (thought it is definitely present). Because of the whizzer cone, there's considerable phase adding and subtraction around the high mid area. This seems considerable in the graphs, but it is only on-axis. Off-axis the response tames pretty quickly. Phase peaks and valleys shift continuously depending on the listener's position. If you sit in one spot all day, you ears will probably get fatigued, but my ADHD-derrière can't sit still. I move around a lot, and when doing so the AN's sound becomes even and balanced, in my opinion. Unlike the graph might make one think. It's a driver that doesn't do too well on paper at first sight, but upon close examination does a lot right. Not a lot of cone break-up for a full-range, though I do still intent to treat the cones with the EnABL method. Lastly the ANs have some very redeeming qualities, depth, magic, dynamics, realism. In my opinion, it's a driver worth jumping through a lot hoops for. It needs some help in the bass department though. It goes down deep but it doesn't do it as nicely as a true sub would.
Besides that, a woofer firing into an cone often has somewhat of an inherent falling response, so usually a rising response evens out favourably with omni speakers
FWIW, the drivers will be biamped so that sensitivies can be matched without decreasing the ANs dynamics. This also makes it easy to DSP the subs without contaminating the midrange. From what I've gathered, I think that for this reason a series crossover might not be optimal. I am glad I've learnt about it though. I am hoping to roll off the ANs in an acoustic way, or via a passive xo that doesn't cause phase shift or attenuation in the midrange. A criterium is to keep the ANs 'pure'
Thanks for the circuits. They look very nice. I learn from them. I'll sim all of em and see which ones I would like to try to build!
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