Hi everyone
I would like to ask you about Acoustic Elegance speakers. I live in Poland, where there are neither no dealer of these drivers, nor hardly anyone heard them. That's why I decided to ask here - someone would probably be able to help.
AE Speakers claims that they produce the best woofers in the world (ok ;-) ) and that their drivers are characterized by the lowest distortions of all. However, comparing with other drivers, it seems to be not entirely true, because in the low tone range (<100Hz) the competition from the pro segment is usually better. You can check it here:
1) 12" - drivervault
2) 15" - drivervault
Not mentioning about, eg. Revelator, or Illuminator series from Scan Speak, whose are even better.
Can you tell me how do they handle compared to the best drivers from "audiophile" manufacturers, like Scan Speak, Accuton, Focal, etc? Are they really that good? Is it worth to try?
Best regards
Damian
I would like to ask you about Acoustic Elegance speakers. I live in Poland, where there are neither no dealer of these drivers, nor hardly anyone heard them. That's why I decided to ask here - someone would probably be able to help.
AE Speakers claims that they produce the best woofers in the world (ok ;-) ) and that their drivers are characterized by the lowest distortions of all. However, comparing with other drivers, it seems to be not entirely true, because in the low tone range (<100Hz) the competition from the pro segment is usually better. You can check it here:
1) 12" - drivervault
2) 15" - drivervault
Not mentioning about, eg. Revelator, or Illuminator series from Scan Speak, whose are even better.
Can you tell me how do they handle compared to the best drivers from "audiophile" manufacturers, like Scan Speak, Accuton, Focal, etc? Are they really that good? Is it worth to try?
Best regards
Damian
Hi Damian,
I havent used them myself as they`re hard to buy in Bulgaria too but I know someone who bought the TD15H and sold them to go for the 32W Reveltors. Thats far off direct experience, of course, best would be first hand. I am somewhat hesistant to believe their T/S parameters match even within 20% the published ones.
I havent used them myself as they`re hard to buy in Bulgaria too but I know someone who bought the TD15H and sold them to go for the 32W Reveltors. Thats far off direct experience, of course, best would be first hand. I am somewhat hesistant to believe their T/S parameters match even within 20% the published ones.
Thanks for the answer Mario.
I had revelator 32W (subbas version), together with Eminence LAB12 for comparison. Revelator is indeed a very good woofer, but LAB12C appeared to be almost that good too, with the price over 2 times smaller. That’s why i started to look for something form, lets say, pro sector and finally found AE Speakers. Eminence LAB 12 is good, but it is a subbas and has a typical limitation – very low efficiency (and it is ugly too ;-) ). Since i am looking for something high effective and with good low end extension, i searched the internet and found some very positive opinions on AE Speakers.
Are you still in touch with that person Mario?
I had revelator 32W (subbas version), together with Eminence LAB12 for comparison. Revelator is indeed a very good woofer, but LAB12C appeared to be almost that good too, with the price over 2 times smaller. That’s why i started to look for something form, lets say, pro sector and finally found AE Speakers. Eminence LAB 12 is good, but it is a subbas and has a typical limitation – very low efficiency (and it is ugly too ;-) ). Since i am looking for something high effective and with good low end extension, i searched the internet and found some very positive opinions on AE Speakers.
Are you still in touch with that person Mario?
It is a contradiction in itself to strive for a good low end extension and high efficiency. This is a decision you will have to make for yourself depending what your primary goal may be and how you will achieve it. If I were to build a good quality 2 way, passive design capable of deep bass, I would consider Great Plains Audio woofers and also Acoustic Elegance units, and the latter ones don't come with any graphs on TSP or FR. In case you fancy more an active system, I would advise a PA company and then correct the response with Linkwitz transform.
It really depends on what attributes you want (in combination).
IF it's high efficiency and low-end extension, say 20 Hz to 200 Hz - then you might find better options elsewhere.
"High-end" manufacturers often prioritize certain bandwidths for linearity with very good non-linear distortion (particularly high-order harmonics) within a certain power/compression level (design dependent). But very few provide high efficiency.
This ones a bit different (having decent eff. and a low fs):
15" SB42FHCL75-6 :: SB Acoustics
Test Bench: The SB42FHCL75-6 15” Subwoofer from SB Acoustics
IF it's high efficiency and low-end extension, say 20 Hz to 200 Hz - then you might find better options elsewhere.
"High-end" manufacturers often prioritize certain bandwidths for linearity with very good non-linear distortion (particularly high-order harmonics) within a certain power/compression level (design dependent). But very few provide high efficiency.
This ones a bit different (having decent eff. and a low fs):
15" SB42FHCL75-6 :: SB Acoustics
Test Bench: The SB42FHCL75-6 15” Subwoofer from SB Acoustics
Not if we decide for a large drivers ;-). For my project i take into account sizes 12-15 inches - 2 items per side. So in my case choice between efficiency and bass extension is not a problem. The only issue for me is the overall sound quality and dynamics (simplifaying - harmonic distortions level, CSD, IR, etc). And since i've read that the AE Speakers drivers are that good and they in fact have some unique technical solutions, i decided to look deeper into it and ask others - after all, the only true judge are our (yours ;-) ) ears.
As for SB Acoustics woofers – i thought about them (and still do), my first version of design was based on those two woofers: 12" SB34NRXL75-8 :: SB Acoustics. The biggest one i didn’t take into account – the efficiency is to small and the impedance too – i couldn’t coupled them in pair if i wanted to have a reasonable impedance level. And what’s the case here somehow i think, that woofers from AE Speakers would be better. I don’t know it for sure, thus the thread.
Sure you can, it's call added resistance.
(..the real problem with them is the required volume when used in pairs).MODEL YOUR DESIGN. Pay particular attention to the output for the reference voltage input within the particular bandwidth.
..of course the 2 12" drivers from SB likely offer a better result vs. one 15".
I am in touch, yes. I was just going to suggest you look at GPA but see Lojzek has already done it. Vintage Altec`s may also be worth a look (GPA make a modern verson of these). You`d need to sacrifice some sensitivity to get low end output but don`t put too much emphais on it as little signal presents anything below 35Hz or so and with room gain you`d be able to achieve this with many pro drivers.
I'm using 10" Eminence 2510 ported quite high and I'm surprised at how much low end rumble they produce. My 8" sealed speakers go quite a bit deeper but I'm not really bothered about missing that last octave or so of bass.
Most instruments have their lowoctave tones at 45Hz or up, the "beat" on house music us around 50-60hz, drums go in usually 60-90Hz (thats why manufacturers usually have a large bump in this region as it indeed raises the -6db point and also makes a tiny speaker sound dynamic). The room does have a much bigger role under 100Hz and depending on positioning, even large drivers with equalization may miss some notes. The piano can reach 28Hz but, being a former piano musician, I have never ever used the last three keys during the 9 years I played it Pipe organs, as the one in the Munich Cathedral, can reach down to 5Hz, but I`m not sure I know of any people who listen to pipe organ music (or should i say feel for such low tones), it would be so rare that`s not worth making drivers to go so low. The people that write music would know this and unless a piece is written for such low reaching pipe organ, or if they`re in that crazy mood, they would abstain of using very low notes that cannot be played in some places of worship. So again it comes to the pretty useless drive to have something that hits so low.
Pipe organs, as the one in the Munich Cathedral, can reach down to 5Hz, but I`m not sure I know of any people who listen to pipe organ music (or should i say feel for such low tones), it would be so rare that`s not worth making drivers to go so low. The people that write music would know this and unless a piece is written for such low reaching pipe organ, or if they`re in that crazy mood, they would abstain of using very low notes that cannot be played in some places of worship. So again it comes to the pretty useless drive to have something that hits so low.
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Lojzek,
I was curious about GPA and did a quick search as I had never heard of them before. I was surprised to see that they're in Oklahoma City, which is where I was born and raised. I do remember the Altec Lansing plant and GPA isn't too far from where that was located.
Anyway, thanks for that.
I own 12 drivers, 4 each of the TD15X and 15S and the 10M. They are very good drivers. Low distortion, low inductance, low Le(x) and the 15S are flat to 45Hz (sealed) half space and lower in room.
I imported them from the US to Australia and with the exchange rates at the time I paid about double the price in USD in AUD and would do so again. They replaced a bunch of JBLs (2226, 2123).
The foam surround drivers have a little notch in the FR circa 500Hz, but it's small. I only use mine to 350Hz active, crossed steeply. The M versions play higher and I heard a really excellent 15"2 way a while back with a 15M ported, Beyma CP380M and the larger QSC WGs.
I'm rebuilding at the moment but the 15S will be in the mains, 15X, surrounds and the 10M in another project.
Thanks guys for all the answers. I am aware of all the issues you've mentioned about (room gain, intsruments frequency range, baffle step, etc.) - i probably should have mentioned it before to avoid your doubts regarding my question, but i designed many speakers for all those years of my audio disease and i am also a scientist with PhD degree, so you don't have to worry that i'm missing something important here ;-). However all that experience and knowledge of drivers data (following with what's more important - how to interpret them) cannot give the answer whether driver sounds good or not and that's the reason for which i'm asking you.
I see that there are several users from US here. Did any of you guys hear these drivers? What is the opinion of this company in the US market?
I see that there are several users from US here. Did any of you guys hear these drivers? What is the opinion of this company in the US market?
Thanks Brett. Funny - i also consider to use mentioned Beyma CP380M in that design (I hesitate between that Beyma and B&C Speakers DE250 or B&C Speakers DE500) .
As for the AE drivers - can you tell me how did they cope with high inputs? They have rather small voice coils and i wonder how well AE solved problems with thermal compresion.
.As for the AE drivers - can you tell me how did they cope with high inputs? They have rather small voice coils and i wonder how well AE solved problems with thermal compresion.
Right, I would not have heard of it either if I were not a forum member and this is where I got the information from also, plus all kinds of other invaluable software that were developed and kindly offered for free private usage by your fellow American citizens. A close buddy of mine and a neighbour is considering to purchase GPA drivers, we are only not sure when the funds will be available for a new project, so hopefully I will have first hand experience with these, one day if everything goes well. By the look of units and specs, I am confident that we can't go wrong with GPA.
Yeah, a narrow bandwidth modest loss in pressure lower than 1 kHz in a far-field domestic situation is going to be very difficult to detect (..other than with a good measurement system).
I'd say it is (practically speaking) a NON-issue.
Of course much of AE's line-up is at it's greatest value when used up to 1 kHz (or even higher).
I'd have greater difficulty justifying the higher prices (even with their higher build quality) when used exclusively below 250 Hz vs. other *cherry-picked offerings (from various manufacturers). Again though, the obvious exception to this would be AE's more "niche" offerings like their dipole series.
*Ex. (I've mentioned before) - in the states the Eminence CB15 is just a lot cheaper than the AE TD15M, with very similar parameters. If you just need something that's operated below 250-300 Hz, then it's very hard to justify the premium (about 3x) for the 15M. (..but if you need to run the driver up past 1 kHz the CB15 is a pig.)
On the other hand:
*Ex. the TD15X with its lower fs and much greater xmax are very "niche" with very few comparable alternatives. The SB acoustics SB42FHCL75-6 is similar, but more expensive (unless the buyer opt.s for the Apollo upgrade to the 15X).