Rigid = way to hold the top motionless with respect to the base = triangle shape
Rigid = way to keep the base SOLIDLY on the floor.
We are talking about vibrations at audio freqs, not gross rocking motions visible to the naked eye... (think about a tuning fork for example, very solid on the bottom where it is held...)
😉
_-_-bear
Rigid = way to keep the base SOLIDLY on the floor.
We are talking about vibrations at audio freqs, not gross rocking motions visible to the naked eye... (think about a tuning fork for example, very solid on the bottom where it is held...)
😉
_-_-bear
guys have you ever heard a pair of KRS krells???
they have the best bottom body an amp could hope for,sonically,a guy I know who's friend told him that as soon I'm finished with them acoustat want to here it again because the first time he stood in front of a paire of 2+2 and the KRS he was blown away,on how the dynamics were powerful and the rest of the qualities of the acoustats were brought to life,these are reference amps of krell in 1990,they DO NOT COMPARE TO ANY MODELS OF KRELL.(I needed to empasis on that)🙂
they have the best bottom body an amp could hope for,sonically,a guy I know who's friend told him that as soon I'm finished with them acoustat want to here it again because the first time he stood in front of a paire of 2+2 and the KRS he was blown away,on how the dynamics were powerful and the rest of the qualities of the acoustats were brought to life,these are reference amps of krell in 1990,they DO NOT COMPARE TO ANY MODELS OF KRELL.(I needed to empasis on that)🙂
![IMGDEAD]](/community/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5BIMGDEAD%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi69.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi76%2FAUDIA8MAN%2FAUDIO%2520MAISON%2Faudiomaison034.jpg%5B%2FIMGDEAD%5D&hash=ff17e165e1405780029f0694be31463e)
All what's missing is a few days of recharging....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi newfish,
absolutely crazy!! Nice work.
Are the crossbars at the rear on the original acoustats as well ? I would expect heavy reflections to the membrane. Unfortunately the crossbars are exactly in the height of the listening center.
i made a lot of testing and any "concrete" material near to the membran causes issues on spectral decay.
Capaciti
absolutely crazy!! Nice work.
Are the crossbars at the rear on the original acoustats as well ? I would expect heavy reflections to the membrane. Unfortunately the crossbars are exactly in the height of the listening center.
i made a lot of testing and any "concrete" material near to the membran causes issues on spectral decay.
Capaciti
these are brand new 1"mdf made by cnc cutting(one peice)and another 1 1/4" added on top to addd stiffness and to be flush with the panels.I have 1/8"pure wool between the panels and the frame,haven't found any differences so far...can you be more detailed when you spectral decay... what do you mean itCapaciti said:
resonates?
I did another paire to a guy that he didn't put back his felts and he didn't feel any differences than before other than having the panels straight is an awsome improuvement stage,image,width,depth etc...
Attachments
Hi newfish,
i didnt meant the horizontal bars, but the vertical one in the middle of the height.
I constructed an ESL with about the same area of one acoustat element and added a support structure at the rear. It consisted of two small horizontal supports and 6 vertical supports, all about 4 inches distant to the ESL element. When i measured spectral decay, there was a significant delay in the mid range. In addition the sound appeared coloured and i had the feeling always to locate the speaker. So i cut off the whole support structure,having nothing behind the panel anymore and the delay has gone. Transparency appeared again .
Even if you damp the crossbar it will reflect back to the membrane, since any material wont absorb the waves completely.
In order to evaluate you can mount several more vertical crossbars, made form wood with the same width of the excisting one. Just fix them short term and listen. You should be able to hear the increasing negative effect due to the crossbars.
Capaciti
i didnt meant the horizontal bars, but the vertical one in the middle of the height.
I constructed an ESL with about the same area of one acoustat element and added a support structure at the rear. It consisted of two small horizontal supports and 6 vertical supports, all about 4 inches distant to the ESL element. When i measured spectral decay, there was a significant delay in the mid range. In addition the sound appeared coloured and i had the feeling always to locate the speaker. So i cut off the whole support structure,having nothing behind the panel anymore and the delay has gone. Transparency appeared again .
Even if you damp the crossbar it will reflect back to the membrane, since any material wont absorb the waves completely.
In order to evaluate you can mount several more vertical crossbars, made form wood with the same width of the excisting one. Just fix them short term and listen. You should be able to hear the increasing negative effect due to the crossbars.
Capaciti
Hi,
sorry, i was wrong and mixed horizontal and vertical. I mean the vertical one in the middle of the height to be critical
Capaciti
sorry, i was wrong and mixed horizontal and vertical. I mean the vertical one in the middle of the height to be critical
Capaciti
the verticals i need them cause that 's where i screw them up.
so they don't interfer with the panels
so they don't interfer with the panels
I think Capaciti may mean the horizontal bar along the back--the one that ends up parallel to the floor and at about ear level.
As for the felt test, I don't think 1/8" of wool felt would be sufficient to kill the reflections Capaciti is referring to so comparing the sound with and without felt may not reveal any reflection problems. Since I doubt you want to hack up your nice new frames just to do a test, perhaps you could take an individual isolated panel and listen (or better yet measure) with and without a piece of mdf located where your crossbrace would be. Capaciti's suggestion that you add extra crossbraces, just to determine if they cause audible problems, is another good approach and it might require less work.
In any case, nice job so far.
Few
well my freind that I did the same frame placed the new frame in front of his original frames that he cut in 2 and placed them side by side still connected,and didn't notice any change what so ever in the sound.let me tell you he can spend 12 hrs straight just to test any changes in his sound system, he's a sound freak
that why we went with that type of frame alot less vibration then the original.
and I modified a couple of suggested tweaks ans the mids highs are very neutral than the first time and are more spread out through the panel,which in that case has less of difference if your standing up or sitting,much more detail,image is wider,deeper,bass also was augmented,the timbres were more natural,you can hear all the sound of a close microphone singer can do with his mouth.as if the singer was right there!!
rebecca pidgeon with spanish harlem is phenomenal!!!
norah jones with her velvety voice just gives you gose bumps!!
I can say also that the dynamics were much better.
what I changed was the 47uf cap with new connector and wire 12gauge.
canceled the fuse also.
and cardas pure copper connectors the one with the black rectangle.the best connection you can get,close to 93%
thx for all your info's everyone!!!BEAR you rock😎
ooh yeah and the back wall I tried a 40"x80"eggshell foam with a sonopan to hold it around mid high in the middle of the back wall.behind me when I sit and listen and wow the sound much richer.....it's getting there!!!and behind the speakers is still just the quilted blanket of coton which does the right job,cause I tried to dampen the side walls behind and it got worst so stayed with the quilt and so far my best moves.
he's a sound freak that why we went with that type of frame alot less vibration then the original.and I modified a couple of suggested tweaks ans the mids highs are very neutral than the first time and are more spread out through the panel,which in that case has less of difference if your standing up or sitting,much more detail,image is wider,deeper,bass also was augmented,the timbres were more natural,you can hear all the sound of a close microphone singer can do with his mouth.as if the singer was right there!!
rebecca pidgeon with spanish harlem is phenomenal!!!
norah jones with her velvety voice just gives you gose bumps!!
I can say also that the dynamics were much better.what I changed was the 47uf cap with new connector and wire 12gauge.
canceled the fuse also.
and cardas pure copper connectors the one with the black rectangle.the best connection you can get,close to 93%
thx for all your info's everyone!!!BEAR you rock😎
ooh yeah and the back wall I tried a 40"x80"eggshell foam with a sonopan to hold it around mid high in the middle of the back wall.behind me when I sit and listen and wow the sound much richer.....it's getting there!!!and behind the speakers is still just the quilted blanket of coton which does the right job,cause I tried to dampen the side walls behind and it got worst so stayed with the quilt and so far my best moves.
Rock on!
Now, loose the Krills, and build/buy urself a ~150-200w class triode tube amp for them. The Krills will sound thin and anemic and hard and mechanical by comparision, I promise.
Think of all the $$ you can get for them! 😀
You want to go AB2, and you can use 211/845s biased properly, or 811a or a whole range of other tubes... just so long as you set them up as triodes you might even get away with p-p paralleled things like 6550s... (not my fave).
_-_-bear
Now, loose the Krills, and build/buy urself a ~150-200w class triode tube amp for them. The Krills will sound thin and anemic and hard and mechanical by comparision, I promise.
Think of all the $$ you can get for them! 😀
You want to go AB2, and you can use 211/845s biased properly, or 811a or a whole range of other tubes... just so long as you set them up as triodes you might even get away with p-p paralleled things like 6550s... (not my fave).
_-_-bear
I'll get to you on that for the amps later ...😎
I was wondering if 3 days minimum of charging the panels is normal?
cause the sound is awfull if I don't wait at least 3 days for them to charge can someone tell me ?
and could it be possible ,after further listening that the cap that I changed needs somme break in?
and I read that a guy modified the top of the wires on the panels and got them all soldered together and got the 5000volt to 7000volt modification,but he didn't tell why and what it did actually as a modification.any input on that could be apreciated.
thx😀
oh and the bass seems to travel on the ceiling rather then the floor or mid height,not that i don't have any but when you stand up you have more what could I do to help that?
fell on this site and haven't read yet the possibilities but gonna get on it this week...
http://www.rivesaudio.com/
I was wondering if 3 days minimum of charging the panels is normal?
cause the sound is awfull if I don't wait at least 3 days for them to charge can someone tell me ?
and could it be possible ,after further listening that the cap that I changed needs somme break in?
and I read that a guy modified the top of the wires on the panels and got them all soldered together and got the 5000volt to 7000volt modification,but he didn't tell why and what it did actually as a modification.any input on that could be apreciated.
thx😀
oh and the bass seems to travel on the ceiling rather then the floor or mid height,not that i don't have any but when you stand up you have more what could I do to help that?
fell on this site and haven't read yet the possibilities but gonna get on it this week...
http://www.rivesaudio.com/
Three days seems a bit much... but 24hrs isn't unusual.
Is it exceptionally dry there?
Maybe wet??
Sounds like the HF is on axis in the seated position and off axis when you stand up - therefore the HF rolloff = bass boost in perceptive terms?
Don't think I want to go to 7kv on the panels... tzap! zorch!
Of course you could have room boost modes in the standing position too... move the speakers!
What is the ceiling?
And, there is the effect of floor bounce, especially if you have a live floor!
Can you measure the difference? <---idea!
_-_-bear
Is it exceptionally dry there?
Maybe wet??
Sounds like the HF is on axis in the seated position and off axis when you stand up - therefore the HF rolloff = bass boost in perceptive terms?
Don't think I want to go to 7kv on the panels... tzap! zorch!
Of course you could have room boost modes in the standing position too... move the speakers!
What is the ceiling?
And, there is the effect of floor bounce, especially if you have a live floor!
Can you measure the difference? <---idea!
_-_-bear
the humidity is 40% (I have a hygrometer I do floors for a living)
all the guys that come in the room say that the reflections sound funny cause it's as if you didn't have all the frequencies reflecting the hf are reflecting much more the mid low,.
the ceiling is made of 2'x2' suspended tentest 5/8" inch thick.in between I have air,naturally,and roxulsound 3" inch thick of that ichy stuff
the walls are all gypse with concrete behind,expte for one wall,which has 2 ciment post about 8"x8"
the size is 37'long 13'wide 7'tall.
tommorrow I will experiment them firing downward of about 3 degres ust to see if the bass tends to go vibrate on the floor more.
all the guys that come in the room say that the reflections sound funny cause it's as if you didn't have all the frequencies reflecting the hf are reflecting much more the mid low,.
the ceiling is made of 2'x2' suspended tentest 5/8" inch thick.in between I have air,naturally,and roxulsound 3" inch thick of that ichy stuff
the walls are all gypse with concrete behind,expte for one wall,which has 2 ciment post about 8"x8"the size is 37'long 13'wide 7'tall.
tommorrow I will experiment them firing downward of about 3 degres ust to see if the bass tends to go vibrate on the floor more.
Hi Newfish,
are there furnitures in your listening room ? If not,your romm should show echoes. From the pictures your room appears to be "naked" and should sound like a tunnel. If yes thats critical
Just try it, by clapping your hands. If you hear an echo, absorbtion is required. The bass issue might be a result of an echo between the rear walls of the speaker and the wall behind listening position.
3 days is very long for loading. It looks like the coating has aged and cannot be fully charged by one high voltage supply. To ensure full loading you can add an second source, while each source feeds two panels instead one feeding four panels.
Regarding Amps: Although Class-D amps are not the favourite of most people, you should try them with an ESL, since they do not care about the capacitive load of an ESL and do not waste more than 70 % electrical power as normal amps do. I got a lot of feedback from people, who suddenly loved their Quads when running with Class-D (e.g. Tact or the german DIY-amps from HiFiakademie)
Regards, Capaciti
are there furnitures in your listening room ? If not,your romm should show echoes. From the pictures your room appears to be "naked" and should sound like a tunnel. If yes thats critical
Just try it, by clapping your hands. If you hear an echo, absorbtion is required. The bass issue might be a result of an echo between the rear walls of the speaker and the wall behind listening position.
3 days is very long for loading. It looks like the coating has aged and cannot be fully charged by one high voltage supply. To ensure full loading you can add an second source, while each source feeds two panels instead one feeding four panels.
Regarding Amps: Although Class-D amps are not the favourite of most people, you should try them with an ESL, since they do not care about the capacitive load of an ESL and do not waste more than 70 % electrical power as normal amps do. I got a lot of feedback from people, who suddenly loved their Quads when running with Class-D (e.g. Tact or the german DIY-amps from HiFiakademie)
Regards, Capaciti
finally I got really good results with adding bass trapps and by changing the the caps in the signal path and by changing the wire connector,ans speaker connectors also for cardas top of the line better then wbt.
I also changed my preamp which gives more of everything.bass dynamics,mids,highs and more natural feel to the timbres.
[/IMG]
MY REAL PICS A RE COMMIN...
I also changed my preamp which gives more of everything.bass dynamics,mids,highs and more natural feel to the timbres.
MY REAL PICS A RE COMMIN...
here are a few mods I made:
revelation 1 meter interconnect for dac and preamp.
premier 10 mint mint mint.did I say mint?
new amperex tubes for the dac 300$ a pair!! 200$ on special.
but hey it's very well worth it.
the next move will be having the whole kit move closer to me and the amps stay there.
and the amp rack did it myself
2" thick birch
I don't like paying 3000$ for a piece of furniture that big.
total cost of rack 35$
![IMGDEAD]](/community/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5BIMGDEAD%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi69.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi76%2FAUDIA8MAN%2FAUDIO%2520MAISON%2Faudiomaison073.jpg%5B%2FIMGDEAD%5D&hash=93ba089766cdf77ee6af5fb1a4538573)
revelation 1 meter interconnect for dac and preamp.
premier 10 mint mint mint.did I say mint?
new amperex tubes for the dac 300$ a pair!! 200$ on special.
but hey it's very well worth it.
the next move will be having the whole kit move closer to me and the amps stay there.
and the amp rack did it myself
2" thick birch
I don't like paying 3000$ for a piece of furniture that big.
total cost of rack 35$
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