ACOUSTAT III can be improved?
I own this speaker and rebuilt the servo units by replacing all components but transformers.
Comparing the ACOUSTAT III with Martin Logan CLS there is a big difference between the two.
I was thinking to change the center unit of the ACOUSTAT III with a DIY unit of a same sizes but with a 6 microns film membrane.
I think can be a very interesting project.
There is some one who did similar DIY projects, built ESL by him self?
Any help and advises are very well come.
Best regards,
Williams
I own this speaker and rebuilt the servo units by replacing all components but transformers.
Comparing the ACOUSTAT III with Martin Logan CLS there is a big difference between the two.
I was thinking to change the center unit of the ACOUSTAT III with a DIY unit of a same sizes but with a 6 microns film membrane.
I think can be a very interesting project.
There is some one who did similar DIY projects, built ESL by him self?
Any help and advises are very well come.
Best regards,
Williams
Do your Acoustats have transformer interfaces which are used with your own external amplifier, or do they have the Acoustat ServoCharge amplifiers?
hi,
i have internal transformers, external amplification
it is the medallion model
cheers,
Williams
i have internal transformers, external amplification
it is the medallion model
cheers,
Williams
There are a number of posts here about building panels, here's a good place to start:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/164430-how-construct-cube-louver-acoustat.html
Nice looking speaker mod, btw. Very clean.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/164430-how-construct-cube-louver-acoustat.html
Nice looking speaker mod, btw. Very clean.
HI,
Well there is a difference
1 - in my room; Acoustat sounds louder
2 - Acoustat has more bass response
3 - Martin Logan is bright, responds quickly and is lucid
4 - Martin Logan has a very nice upper freq range , detailed
5 - If I could combine both SPK, I think it could be a super SPK
6 - This is why I think improving the high freq unit for Acoustat
Best regards,
Williams
Well there is a difference
1 - in my room; Acoustat sounds louder
2 - Acoustat has more bass response
3 - Martin Logan is bright, responds quickly and is lucid
4 - Martin Logan has a very nice upper freq range , detailed
5 - If I could combine both SPK, I think it could be a super SPK
6 - This is why I think improving the high freq unit for Acoustat
Best regards,
Williams
Suggestion: replace the relatively thick "socks" with stretched Spandex and the HF will improve. Here is a post from a guy on this forum:
I'm going to do that tweak after I update/upgrade my interfaces.
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Get your speakers out of the corners, and do something with your room first.
A very very live room, one without any absorption and hard flat walls, hard tile floors will not favor good results from dipole ESLs like the Acoustat.
The ML has much much different low freq response - IF it is a full range, then it can not compete with the Acoustat. If you have a hybrid, then you are comparing a direct radiator cone with an ESL bass. The Acoustat probably has deeper and better bass than most of the ML line if it is properly placed in the room.
The other thing that is critical to what you hear is the amplification.
The Acoustat is like an open window to your amplifier and what comes before it.
Replacing the "socks" will not hurt at all...
...but the first step is to drop the reverberant level in your room and decrease the hard reflective surfaces.
Btw, the caps you have in the interface, in the HV section are likely not rated at a high enough voltage! They look to the eye like standard caps? They should be very high voltage rated. Perhaps they are, but this is important.
What else are you going to do in terms of "upgrading" your interfaces?
They look upgraded already?
_-_-
A very very live room, one without any absorption and hard flat walls, hard tile floors will not favor good results from dipole ESLs like the Acoustat.
The ML has much much different low freq response - IF it is a full range, then it can not compete with the Acoustat. If you have a hybrid, then you are comparing a direct radiator cone with an ESL bass. The Acoustat probably has deeper and better bass than most of the ML line if it is properly placed in the room.
The other thing that is critical to what you hear is the amplification.
The Acoustat is like an open window to your amplifier and what comes before it.
Replacing the "socks" will not hurt at all...
...but the first step is to drop the reverberant level in your room and decrease the hard reflective surfaces.
Btw, the caps you have in the interface, in the HV section are likely not rated at a high enough voltage! They look to the eye like standard caps? They should be very high voltage rated. Perhaps they are, but this is important.
What else are you going to do in terms of "upgrading" your interfaces?
They look upgraded already?
_-_-
Hi all,
Thanks for the posts.
The room response it is very important, I know it.
But there is a WAF,,,,, this is a issue.
I will test some relocations and some thinks to soften the solid back walls of my room, as well few kinds of carpets in front of the SPK.
By the way the HV capas are WIMA rated at 6KV MKP.
The socks I have are new replaced, of a very transparent material that can see tru it very easily.
Any advises are very well come, I really love the Acoustat.
I drive it with ODISSEY AUDIO amps, pre and pwr.
Cheers ,
Williams
Thanks for the posts.
The room response it is very important, I know it.
But there is a WAF,,,,, this is a issue.
I will test some relocations and some thinks to soften the solid back walls of my room, as well few kinds of carpets in front of the SPK.
By the way the HV capas are WIMA rated at 6KV MKP.
The socks I have are new replaced, of a very transparent material that can see tru it very easily.
Any advises are very well come, I really love the Acoustat.
I drive it with ODISSEY AUDIO amps, pre and pwr.
Cheers ,
Williams
I've got a new-to-me rebuilt/upgraded Odyssey power amp pushing my Model 3's - sounds great, but will be better when I upgrade the interfaces.
I have also wanted to combine the mids and highs of my ML CLS and the bass response of my Model 3. I actually had that setup before selling the Model 3 to someone who just had to have them.
Some are just more sensitive to mids and HF - he was one of them that just loved the mids / highs of the model 3, and he considered the CLS too bright...I never understood where he was coming from, as I prefer my "presence" of the CLS...
Another Idea I had was mixing the Model 3 on bass and the Spectra 22 on mids / highs. Spectras definitely were a major step up on mids / highs for Acoustat (to me at least). I loved my Spectra 22, but again, someone just had to have 'em.
Some are just more sensitive to mids and HF - he was one of them that just loved the mids / highs of the model 3, and he considered the CLS too bright...I never understood where he was coming from, as I prefer my "presence" of the CLS...
Another Idea I had was mixing the Model 3 on bass and the Spectra 22 on mids / highs. Spectras definitely were a major step up on mids / highs for Acoustat (to me at least). I loved my Spectra 22, but again, someone just had to have 'em.
Generally speaking you will not be able to do this.
Imo, your best bet is a synergistic combination of amplifier, signal path before that, and the speaker.
The ML CLS is a very different speaker. The way it is made, the way it is matched by the transformer, the shape of the diaphragm, the thickness and mass of the diaphragm, etc...
The CLS really does not have bass, so what remains are the mids and highs... although it does have nice mids and highs... with the proper amplification.
I never found the Spectra to sound any good, but then again I had to listen to them on other people's systems. Making a matching system for that would be a bit tricky.
Otoh, all of the newest Acoustat panels *are* Spectra panels. A close inspection might be in order... 😀
I think a lot of what you and the other people were hearing is/was the interactions between the amp and the speakers. They can sound radically different depending on the amplification (and cables, for that matter).
_-_-
Imo, your best bet is a synergistic combination of amplifier, signal path before that, and the speaker.
The ML CLS is a very different speaker. The way it is made, the way it is matched by the transformer, the shape of the diaphragm, the thickness and mass of the diaphragm, etc...
The CLS really does not have bass, so what remains are the mids and highs... although it does have nice mids and highs... with the proper amplification.
I never found the Spectra to sound any good, but then again I had to listen to them on other people's systems. Making a matching system for that would be a bit tricky.
Otoh, all of the newest Acoustat panels *are* Spectra panels. A close inspection might be in order... 😀
I think a lot of what you and the other people were hearing is/was the interactions between the amp and the speakers. They can sound radically different depending on the amplification (and cables, for that matter).
_-_-
Hi bear - please expand on the cables topic. I assume you're referring to the speaker cables used. I've picked up on the idea that our Acoustat speaker cables should be of low impedance construction rather than low capacitance construction - true? What construction/brand have proven to be the best for our babies over the years?
thanks
thanks
I run the Model X with upgraded Hardwood frames + upgraded Servo tube amps.
I also think getting your Panels out of the corners is a must. Placement makes a big difference, it can affect soundstage , imaging, + the midrange.
Maybe find a good place for when your listening + mark it. Then push the back when not in use.
This is what I did to improve the high end.
I use a pair of the later III series Maggie Ribbon tweeters. I made a separate frame from Black walnut for the Ribbons. I use a separate amp for the ribbons,I also use a high pass filter with only one cap and an L-pad on the ribbons, right now they come in around 10,000 khz.
It is amazing on how well they work together, like one. Maggie Ribbons are sooooo sweet!
I
I also think getting your Panels out of the corners is a must. Placement makes a big difference, it can affect soundstage , imaging, + the midrange.
Maybe find a good place for when your listening + mark it. Then push the back when not in use.
This is what I did to improve the high end.
I use a pair of the later III series Maggie Ribbon tweeters. I made a separate frame from Black walnut for the Ribbons. I use a separate amp for the ribbons,I also use a high pass filter with only one cap and an L-pad on the ribbons, right now they come in around 10,000 khz.
It is amazing on how well they work together, like one. Maggie Ribbons are sooooo sweet!
I
HankF, I think very much of the sound one hears from the Acoustats is the result of the interaction of the amp and the speaker. Every amp seems to sound somewhat different.
I'd say you have to experiment.
I personally have never been too thrilled with the higher capacitance cables.
There are a number of DIY brews that are in fact higher capacitance. Those who like them, have great things to say.
You can always try to see the differences between cables and no cables by figuring out a way to get your amp and ur interface(s) within inches or even directly coupled together at the binding posts! Then adding a cable would either reveal a sonic differential or not!
Otoh you might not like the direct connection as much as the cabled one.
I was in the "cable biz" for many years, and I have a "pet" method which actually is slightly more inductive than not. Not a huge amount, mind you. Also I prefer to limit the capacitance between the two conductors.
After that we're into an OT conversation about speaker cable "tweak designs" and if they work, and why they don't seem to measure what you hear, and all that. Which I would prefer to avoid.
So, my answer is that I have always built my own cables, and don't really have a suggestion as to commercial brands.
Did you say what your amplification is?
_-_-bear
Oh, low DCR and low Z cables are not the same thing...
Low DCR often means higher inductance, although some offset that by adding in some C...
I'm not suggesting this, just noting that this is sometimes done.
I'd say you have to experiment.
I personally have never been too thrilled with the higher capacitance cables.
There are a number of DIY brews that are in fact higher capacitance. Those who like them, have great things to say.
You can always try to see the differences between cables and no cables by figuring out a way to get your amp and ur interface(s) within inches or even directly coupled together at the binding posts! Then adding a cable would either reveal a sonic differential or not!
Otoh you might not like the direct connection as much as the cabled one.
I was in the "cable biz" for many years, and I have a "pet" method which actually is slightly more inductive than not. Not a huge amount, mind you. Also I prefer to limit the capacitance between the two conductors.
After that we're into an OT conversation about speaker cable "tweak designs" and if they work, and why they don't seem to measure what you hear, and all that. Which I would prefer to avoid.
So, my answer is that I have always built my own cables, and don't really have a suggestion as to commercial brands.
Did you say what your amplification is?
_-_-bear
Oh, low DCR and low Z cables are not the same thing...
Low DCR often means higher inductance, although some offset that by adding in some C...
I'm not suggesting this, just noting that this is sometimes done.
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Bear: I used to run my 1+1's in the corners and for me it worked fine there was zero direct reflection back to the panels. What is it about corner mounting that you see is an issue? Best regards Moray James.
To the OP install two or three extra stages of HT ladder and your panels will come to life with some extra voltage on them. Also you should re tension the diaphragms with a heat gun. Now would also be a good time to inspect ande repair any lose and detached stator wires on your panels. That should make you a very happy camper. I like what you did with the frames very nice look.
To the OP install two or three extra stages of HT ladder and your panels will come to life with some extra voltage on them. Also you should re tension the diaphragms with a heat gun. Now would also be a good time to inspect ande repair any lose and detached stator wires on your panels. That should make you a very happy camper. I like what you did with the frames very nice look.
Bear, I bought a used Odyysey amp and had Klaus upgrade it. Sounds great.
The reason for my question is that I read that since our Acoustats are capacitive, that a cable with a bit of capacitance is not going to matter, but that inductive cables should be avoided. I have built several interconnects and could do my own, but now I have conflicting information that I must sort through.
The reason for my question is that I read that since our Acoustats are capacitive, that a cable with a bit of capacitance is not going to matter, but that inductive cables should be avoided. I have built several interconnects and could do my own, but now I have conflicting information that I must sort through.
Bear, a few months ago I bought a used Odyssey Plus amp and had Klaus upgrade it with a new board and extra supply caps, etc - sounds great. My question was based on 'stats being quite capacitive and adding a few pR's wouldn't matter. Here's Calvin's comment: "
Sorry, here's Calvin's note:
"Since the amp typically sees a heavy capacitive load (in the middle to high frequency range) of couple of µF a additional capacitive load of a few hundreds of pF added by the cabling doesn´t change matters much. I´d rather opt for a low inductance cabling instead."
Someone else said:
"Yes, cable inductance is much more important for ESLs than for conventional speakers... 10nF cable capacitance is not much of a problem, it is swamped by the (transformed) panel capacitance."
Another:
"an ESL you can use a cable which trades off parasitic capacitance in favor of low inductance, since a little extra capacitance won't make a difference"
"Since the amp typically sees a heavy capacitive load (in the middle to high frequency range) of couple of µF a additional capacitive load of a few hundreds of pF added by the cabling doesn´t change matters much. I´d rather opt for a low inductance cabling instead."
Someone else said:
"Yes, cable inductance is much more important for ESLs than for conventional speakers... 10nF cable capacitance is not much of a problem, it is swamped by the (transformed) panel capacitance."
Another:
"an ESL you can use a cable which trades off parasitic capacitance in favor of low inductance, since a little extra capacitance won't make a difference"
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