NO training for an 'engines out' ??? I'd bet virtually anything an engine out is part & parcel of their training....It's that pesky instructor that reaches over & chops your throttle & remarks, "OK, now what are you gonna do?" Of course you just climbed out of your takeoff routine & you only have a thousand feet of altitude & are a quarter mile off the end of the runway...&(&^%#^# says you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
Forced landings are a standard part of basic flight training. Whether or not the advanced simulators they use to train commercial jet pilots support such training I don't know, but probably so. Why would big jets have these things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine ...if there were no provision for what to do next after it deploys? BTW, one did deploy in the Azores Glider incident.
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There was a jet that crashed a few years ago you all probably heard about. The computer was telling the pilot to increase throttle because it was losing air speed but the nose was pointing upward and they were at an altitude that prevented it climbing at that angle. So the pilot just kept helplessly increasing throttle as the jet stalled and plummeted straight down in a flight position. All he needed to do was nose the plane down and regain flight speed.
no engine out..or training.
no engine out..or training.
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Nevertheless, it still requires a lot of runway to land without engine power in a jumbo jet! The plane will stall without flaps and power at any reasonable landing speed.
Uh, that sounds like an SOL situation, except for putting the plane down somewhere safe if that's possible. You're not turning around and landing at the airport.
Then there's this thing called V1 when the plane is taking off. V1 means there's no turning back. If you don't achieve lift then you're running off the end of the runway. By the same concept if you land too fast, you're running off the end of the runway.
The flight engineer is calculating all this and more: V1 on takeoff, minimum and maximum landing velocity, minimum runway length (takeoff and landing). It's not like TV where Bugs Bunny hops in the cockpit and immediately the plane is airborne.
I dig airplanes and I'm keenly interested in the reasons why flight disasters happen, so they don't happen again. That's why I learned some of the flight procedures and flight engineer responsibilities etc. As an engineer I'm absolutely fascinated in all of it. I have to understand mistakes made etc or else I can't sleep at night.
As an engineer I'm also keenly interested in measurements and tests of audio equipment. Different strokes and all that.
As an engineer I'm also keenly interested in measurements and tests of audio equipment. Different strokes and all that.
Modern commercial jets don't carry a flight engineer, they have flight computer instead. Landing speeds depend on a number of variables, such as gross weight (a lot of which may now be less since it was once in the form of unused fuel), airport altitude, local wind conditions, etc. Flaps affect both lift and drag. At low flap settings usually there is more lift gain than induced drag. In other words there may be some benefit to limited flap usage in a forced landing. Therefore pilots are trained in emergency procedures, depending. Don't know of any way to generalize too much for every type of commercial jet without getting into specifics.
You could say that lift and drag are interchangeable, notwithstanding the relative efficiency of the flap design to without them.
What it boils down to is that when landing you can achieve a greater vertical speed per forward speed, or in other words a greater angle of descent. This suggests that if you are going to overshoot the runway you have the option of increasing the flap setting.
All while lowering the stall speed so you can come in slow.
if you like airplanes, why not learn a little more about what it takes to fly them: https://www.x-plane.com/ ...Flight manuals are available for some fairly sophisticated aircraft which are modeled in a not too bad level of detail.
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Airplanes in powered flight experience four basic forces and which exist in opposing pairs. Pair one, 1) THRUST versus 2) DRAG. Pair two, 3) LIFT versus 4) WEIGHT (gravity). The weight of a plane is overcome by the lift generated from it's wings. The more a plane weighs, the more lift is required for it to become and stay airborne. Lift comes at the cost of drag. Drag produced in the direct generation of lift is called induced drag, and is unavoidable. Drag that doesn't produce lift, such as from the surface features of the fuselage, is considered parasitic, and is desired to be minimized. Both induced and parasitic drag are overcome via the force of thrust. From those opposing force pairs, it becomes easy to see the interrelationship of the four basic forces of powered flight.
While engines out means zero thrust, a plane already in flight still possesses the kinetic energy of it's velocity. So, lift from the wings doesn't immediately go to zero. The wings still create lift as a function of the plane's decreasing instantaneous velocity, or airspeed. Enough lift for a controlled glide, but not enough to maintain stable altitude. Because a lack of thrust imbalances the four forces along some progressive gradient, a pilot can even controlled glide a heavy jet like a 747 - Of course, the dynamics of the glide are different for every model of plane. In addition, there are two optimum glide angles, one for maximum range at glide, and a different angle for maximum airborne time at glide. The higher the altitude at loss of thrust, the more glide time and/or range is afforded. You may have heard the saying that altitude is a pilot's best friend.
And the potential energy of 42,000 feet of plummeting. You can exchange altitude for range (or time, but in a 7*7 glider we only want to make the distance to a long smooth firm surface before altitude above terrain goes to zero).
To give an example of how all four relate. The more a plane weighs, the more lift it requires for flight, more lift incurs increased drag, increased drag necessitates increased thrust to attain a given velocity. Also, the velocity of a plane will increase until the counter-force of drag equals the force of thrust. For a given total drag (induced + parasitic), greater thrust is logically required to attain some given velocity, as would be required for a plane with less drag. In other words, as would be required for a plane with less weight, and hence less lift induced drag.