Here is same vifa 5" used fully open from 150Hz to 5kHz, in mtm, with amt tweeter with just one cap for tweeter.
Perfectly flat response, nice smooth phase, and of axis. One of the most accurate mtm i made.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/viral-projects-sort-of.351475/
Perfectly flat response, nice smooth phase, and of axis. One of the most accurate mtm i made.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/viral-projects-sort-of.351475/
After looking at some astonishing frequency response and THD measurements on a Neumann 3" dome i think that a very big and good dome could be the best solution for midrange playback duties
maybe i don't know a hole in the magnet and a rear loading chamber could even lower the fs?
A 3" coil surrounding the dome is really impressive
i think that also Atc 3" dome should have similar performance if not better
i see it paired with 2 big woofers in Atc top of the line monitor
this means that it is able to provide huge SPLs and low distortion
unfortunately they are not cheap
maybe i don't know a hole in the magnet and a rear loading chamber could even lower the fs?
A 3" coil surrounding the dome is really impressive
i think that also Atc 3" dome should have similar performance if not better
i see it paired with 2 big woofers in Atc top of the line monitor
this means that it is able to provide huge SPLs and low distortion
unfortunately they are not cheap
Ah, so, this is all merely judgment in application, including the “formula” mentioned above. More of a rule of thumb than a description of any physical phenomenon.
Hi,
I fear this discussion leads to nothing. There is no "best" driver, "best" concept, "best" crossover.
I bet there are thousands of loudspeakers around with the "best drivers", the "best crossover" etc and absolutely unsatisfactory sound.
On the opposite you may have a system with low-tech drivers, crossover thrown together and absolutely magic sound.
Its all about good development, experience and a big portion of pure luck.
I make speakers since >30 years and had some examples where I made dozends of crossover versions until I was satisfied, in other cases the second step was already great. It cannot be predicted. Fortunately today the effort can be reduced a significant margin by using the available simulation tools.
Regards, J-C
I fear this discussion leads to nothing. There is no "best" driver, "best" concept, "best" crossover.
I bet there are thousands of loudspeakers around with the "best drivers", the "best crossover" etc and absolutely unsatisfactory sound.
On the opposite you may have a system with low-tech drivers, crossover thrown together and absolutely magic sound.
Its all about good development, experience and a big portion of pure luck.
I make speakers since >30 years and had some examples where I made dozends of crossover versions until I was satisfied, in other cases the second step was already great. It cannot be predicted. Fortunately today the effort can be reduced a significant margin by using the available simulation tools.
This is such an example of an "ideal" system. Perhaps in theory. In Praxis you will fight with a lot of effects like bafflestep, beaming, distortion, etc. and at the end you probably have a speaker with dedicated bass, mids and treble, but no blend between them. Have heard too much "Subwoofer" systems which are in no way compareable to a "normal" speaker.
Regards, J-C
70 Hz is not strong low frequency. the problem that will encountered is finding such a mid driver that can take you up to 6KHz. The two way Dynaco A25 runs the mid bass wide open along with a helper tweeter. This is not often found. I have a pair of two way Tannoy Dual Concentric Revolution Series XT Mini which play easily at loud levels (for me) above 70Hz.. This is where you need to decide how loud is loud enough as that is going to be. Remember that the smaller the driver the better the integration between the bass/mid and the tweeter if you are listening in the near field, if you have more distance available and can listen in the far field you can work with a larger woofer. Remember also that most folks turn up the volume not really because they want louder level but because they are looking for more bass jam. At 70db with peaks of 78 db sitting with my head 10 feet away from my XT Mini augmented by a subwoofer I do not feel the need to turn up the overall level. If you have never listened to the Tannoy XT Mini or say a pair of Signature Proac Tablets with a sub you might be cery surprised. If you have some space you can also pull of the same sort of spatial 3D magic with larger two ways. My brother is just getting a rebuilt pair of JBL SR Mkll 4726a large format two way PA speakers dialed in and they have impressive near field performance wit excellent depth height and width. These are large cabinets and are up on stands they are imposing but they can stage and image with top quality mini monitors but they have some modification help as I have done several tricks to help them do their magic foremost is a pair of Karlson tapers fitted to both the woofer and the 90x50 tweeter horn. These speakers can play at insane levels and remain clean so long as you are not over loading your room the sky is the limit.
Attachments
Title never said anything about the 'best'...you may mistake this thread for another.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/current-best-5-midrange-driver.378212/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-midrange-for-active-3-way.366761/
I don't have any measurement equipment so I cannot comment on your question my set up, you would be hard pressed to find measurements for the Tannoy XT Mini on line and I have not found any. You can find measurements for the JBL they don't look all that great but modified as shown and with a lining of dynamat and magic eraser inside the back compression driver cup they sound so much better than I would ever imagine. I was able to listen to a pair of JBL M2 for several hours as I was doing all the work on the SR 4726a. While the modified JBL do not equal the M2 and I do not imply that they do they do share more similarities than not and are not put to shame by the comparison.
Nah.... at the end this is your brain. And that's an active moving part on feets !
More seriously, it is not about the driver only : amp, source, room, positioning in the room, choice of cabinet around the "drivers"; passive filter parts and trade off choice of the filter parameters...
Ok for sure, the drivers choice matter, especially in the blending with each others... but that's just the beginning of the journey... alas... or not (that's a hobby for us, isn't it?)
More seriously, it is not about the driver only : amp, source, room, positioning in the room, choice of cabinet around the "drivers"; passive filter parts and trade off choice of the filter parameters...
Ok for sure, the drivers choice matter, especially in the blending with each others... but that's just the beginning of the journey... alas... or not (that's a hobby for us, isn't it?)
You have so much control. You can change the response, you can change the dispersion, you can modify the diffraction. In the end it almost doesn't matter which driver you use.
There is some influence of the driver. E.g. distortion, I prefer those with symmetric drive. Then there are useful TSPs for Bass drivers, power handling, mechanical damping.
Then the choice of hard or soft cone and the resulting concept. So there are some reasons for good drivers, but many parameters (e.g. beaming do rarely depend on quality, more on pure physics).
Then the choice of hard or soft cone and the resulting concept. So there are some reasons for good drivers, but many parameters (e.g. beaming do rarely depend on quality, more on pure physics).
Wonder about that, complex magnitude shape of a driver is not an easy thing for passive filters ? The more the passive parts the more they color the sound between two magnitude corrections, no ? Or you do not matter as far the phase is ok enough ? I have no skill to make phase flat enough in a passband but have noticed that damned caps, coils, an resistors has a sounding signature I am fed up with (as it costs a little to get rid off with good passive parts enough)
Well I imagine DSP EQ, especially with FIR is more forgiving about that... passive seems to disseaper little by little at seing the PA world...
Well I imagine DSP EQ, especially with FIR is more forgiving about that... passive seems to disseaper little by little at seing the PA world...
No, they fix it. If a lumpy response is the problem then you need those parts. You will have colouration without them.
DSP is no different. You want to use IIR, just like passive, not FIR to fix resonances. In any case, phase is not really an audible property unless we're talking about group delay.
... magnitude shape dominates 🙂
One day I ask about serie or parralell notch with the driver to tame a peak... their differences... (sonically) ... OT here.
One day I ask about serie or parralell notch with the driver to tame a peak... their differences... (sonically) ... OT here.
i agree but I think that drivers fix the limit of what you can get from a speaker
the best being excellent drivers used in their optimal range
again some brands have built their success on their drivers
take a planar Not much else than one or two drivers and a simple crossover
with an Heil Tweeter you are good for 1.5k up without even a cabinet
an Atc mid will give an a almost perfect midrange
but you can't lower a driver distortion in any way
that's a ceiling for maximum performance