Indeed! Most of my designs were preordained to be (primarily) 2way due to the needs of the app requiring high efficiency first and foremost, hence at least one horn. 3ways usually meant a 2way with dual woofers with one acoustically rolled off as ~ a mid driver and on a few occasions either an 8" or 12" mid.
The few true 3/4/5 ways were mostly POCs with cheap drivers to see how close I could come to making a 'silk purse out of a Sow's ear' with just 1st order XOs, various filters and did better when I followed the pioneer's ROTs, but I'm sure no match to today's computer aided, etc., designs even with the best available drivers.
Assuming competent design, your question actually is: What kind of directivity do you like?
Assuming a 6.5" to 7" bass unit, one can make a competent somewhat narrow directivity 2-way (tweeter in a waveguide) or a competent wide directivity 3-way. (A 6.5" 2-way with the tweeter on a flat baffle is incompetent absent heroic tweeter selection and risk of damage, so is not considered here.) The only way to see what you actually prefer in your room is to hear both and listen for spaciousness vs. focus of sonic image.
Yes, and you'd love my 3 way with a 4.5" woofer. That employs an aluminum cone woofer.
And has a funky phase plug(heat radiator?)
Not that it's the material that dictates SQ...but...I've Always wondered Why keeping on using wood for box construction? There should be an advert like on the Tube/valves forum: High voltage might be lethal...sound waves might be lethal when not properly stopped inside...you know, back wave
And has a funky phase plug(heat radiator?)
Not that it's the material that dictates SQ...but...I've Always wondered Why keeping on using wood for box construction? There should be an advert like on the Tube/valves forum: High voltage might be lethal...sound waves might be lethal when not properly stopped inside...you know, back wave
Easy for most folks to work with among other things, but I learned early on from a different group of pioneers that metal or similar extremely stiff materials is best for dealing with LF and shift towards the LF with increasing HF BW, so at some point in the mids, MDF, even cardboard, becomes the appropriate wood product for audio boxes.
So what do you make of the Harbeth, Spendors and Audio Notes? They combine the ~7" woofer with a dome tweeter on a flat baffle.. and they sound great...
They seem to make the Classic 3 way speakers and AN makes 2 way only, if I recall...
I was intrigued by the Polk Little 3 way that appeared about 10 years ago, speaking of brands...
I cannot Say anything on how they 'sound' because my diy route excluded me from the 'real world' of Hi-fi frequentation...
The LS3/7 and LS5/8 designs are 2 way.... the M30s are two ways and are simply outstanding... so are the myriad of similar English designs, Graham, Spendor, Rogers...
I own a pair of the small Audio Notes and they are exceptionally good sounding... while breaking the rules... wide baffle, shallow box, meant to be placed very close to the back walls... indeed the company told me to put them on the corners ( which is impractical for my set up).
Hence my earlier comment, it is very dangerous to make wide statements about 2 and 3 or more multi ways. There's so many factors involved... that unless we build the Big Listening Box with the listeners inside and the speakers facing in, thus creating a tightly controlled environment, factors such as the room and the amplifiers start to become very important as well ( heck, the room is ALWAYS important, unless you're into the Bose and Soundbars thing ).
Heck, my Maggies are 2 way... see?
I own a pair of the small Audio Notes and they are exceptionally good sounding... while breaking the rules... wide baffle, shallow box, meant to be placed very close to the back walls... indeed the company told me to put them on the corners ( which is impractical for my set up).
Hence my earlier comment, it is very dangerous to make wide statements about 2 and 3 or more multi ways. There's so many factors involved... that unless we build the Big Listening Box with the listeners inside and the speakers facing in, thus creating a tightly controlled environment, factors such as the room and the amplifiers start to become very important as well ( heck, the room is ALWAYS important, unless you're into the Bose and Soundbars thing ).
Heck, my Maggies are 2 way... see?
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I think it's more like five feet.... maybe I ought to measure them.. 😆
BTW, several of my speaker pairs have 5 inch, or smaller "woofers".... as well.
BTW, several of my speaker pairs have 5 inch, or smaller "woofers".... as well.
Nope. Here, XO at 250 Hz. Bass reaches well into the 20s, so an octave higher to cross to subwoofers.
And this one with a wider baffle gets XOed at 200 Hz. The subs would come in a bit higher on these.
https://www.p10hifi.net/FAL/images/Ellipsa-1st-veneered.jpg[img]
They both use the same Alpair 7.3eN midTweeters (just different colours).
XO below the quarter wavelength of the centre-to-centre, so drivers are essentially coincident.
dave
Aaahh... you are being tricky, huh?
That "tweeter" is essentially a widebander...
Don't you hear anything at that crossover?
That "tweeter" is essentially a widebander...
Don't you hear anything at that crossover?
No. I have realized the importance of keeping the XO low to avoid many of the evils of XOs. Few, if any, of thise specialized HF transducers go low enuff to meet the coinience criteria. The best i have heard are Decca Londons WZed at 1kHz, but it would be nice to get that down to 500 Hz or lower. Most similarr to the waveguide ssytems of today.
Bill Perkins, PEARL, did get his 1" dome to XO at 1.2 KHz, but that is really low.
dave
Combing is a significant issue.
There is a lot of research happening in the last couple decades on huge arrarys of DSP driven wideranges to create a very immersive experience.
dave
Haven’t heard any modern Spendors. The big Harbeths are very boxy, the Audio Notes sound OK but cost way more than they are worth.
dave
Very little if any. The big rectangualr MTM has drivers with closer voicing and is a bit more coherent in that respect. But the others fit my room and taste better and do a few other things better.
The wideBand is a 4” FR that in somethign like Frugel-Horn Mk 3 does about 40-20KHz, limited only by ulimate volume and bass impact.
dave
That's why you buy all of that stuff used.
I love the Harbeths M30.1s.... and the Spendor 2 way classics and the Rogers LS5/9. But these amps need more power than the F4. Perhaps the A5.
In fact, I prefer the sound of the little AN speakers... Indeed, I got a pair of AN-K/LX for 40% of MSRP, three years old. beautiful burled cabinet, fantastic sound. A match made in Heaven for the F4.
Disclaimer- I often run the Entec Woofers with the AN's... just a little bit.. mind you, just a little bit.
And... How could you make that silly proposal to which Dave responded in post #54?
I mean, it's not 'very well controlled'...
Since we're talking about a box assigned to each channel (2) and the question is 3 or 2?! So 2 or 3 'voices' that contribute each to the 'voicing'
Not counting how the caption of sound is made in order to be reproduced...
I mean, Tony, you seem to have good taste in speakers, why you would want to spoil the magic of sound reproduction that...definitely needs a room... That's the problem, that's the WAF
I mean, it's not 'very well controlled'...
Since we're talking about a box assigned to each channel (2) and the question is 3 or 2?! So 2 or 3 'voices' that contribute each to the 'voicing'
Not counting how the caption of sound is made in order to be reproduced...
I mean, Tony, you seem to have good taste in speakers, why you would want to spoil the magic of sound reproduction that...definitely needs a room... That's the problem, that's the WAF
How to fix the combing? Simple... add more speakers. If 100 is not enough, add 200, place them all very close to each other so in essence they become a plane surface... You just gotta think big.
And I think you misunderstand the notion... I'm not saying a hundred boxes... no, no... just build ONE huge box, you sit inside and the speakers are mounted on the walls facing in.
Turning the speaker cabinet inside out so that the listener is inside and the speakers are on the outside has nothing to do with domestic tranquility... but isolating and controlling the listening environment.
You could then build another box on around that, mount a gaggle of 24 inch drivers and make it into an isobaric configuration. Imagine!
Vent that outer box to the outdoors... your neighbors will love you at midnight when you crank Ted Nugent.
And I think you misunderstand the notion... I'm not saying a hundred boxes... no, no... just build ONE huge box, you sit inside and the speakers are mounted on the walls facing in.
Turning the speaker cabinet inside out so that the listener is inside and the speakers are on the outside has nothing to do with domestic tranquility... but isolating and controlling the listening environment.
You could then build another box on around that, mount a gaggle of 24 inch drivers and make it into an isobaric configuration. Imagine!
Vent that outer box to the outdoors... your neighbors will love you at midnight when you crank Ted Nugent.