ShinOBIWAN said:
I work just as hard anyone else for my wage at the end of the week. If pointing out that comparing $60 speakers to $1000 commercial efforts that sound great for the money is a little off then yeah I must be a snob.
Wow, who cares what the next guy is spending on DIY? As long as we're all happy I can't see the problem. Just because someone wants to spend more than you would doesn't make them a moron.
I never said that my dirt-cheap speakers would sound as good as the 1,000$ commercially made models. I just said that they'd be better than anything else for 60$.
I own their bigger brother, the RS-8. I power them with a pair of MC-30's. The reviewer is mostly right - the speakers are "it". They are the first pair of speakers I've owned that I don't intend to upgrade anytime soon.
I'm building a pair of speakers based on aluminum TB drivers and the Neo3 PDR. I thought I was going to build a nice, smaller "replica" of the Monitor Audios. I was wrong.
I paid about $80 for crossover parts, $200 in drivers, and $400 for a professionaly made cabinet that doesn't look any better than the RS-8's. I'm not adding S/H costs to México, which were around $150 for everything I needed.
At that price point, DIY really makes no sense... at least, to me.
I'm building a pair of speakers based on aluminum TB drivers and the Neo3 PDR. I thought I was going to build a nice, smaller "replica" of the Monitor Audios. I was wrong.
I paid about $80 for crossover parts, $200 in drivers, and $400 for a professionaly made cabinet that doesn't look any better than the RS-8's. I'm not adding S/H costs to México, which were around $150 for everything I needed.
At that price point, DIY really makes no sense... at least, to me.
Not sure that these $1000 Monitor Audio speakers would compete with the DIY Proac 2.5 clone (real versions RRP: $5,000USD) or the Seas Thor and Odin kits at around the same $1000 DIY cost? I wouldn't think that the driver quality in the MA (which are probably cheap Chinese drive units?) would be up to speed with the Seas Excel magnesium drivers ...so overall result of the MA's can't be as good as these $1000 DIY projects, IMHO.
Regards,
Steve M.
Regards,
Steve M.
diy...
a reason to DIY is to get the very very best....
I feel that the fe206es-r back loaded horns I built are fairly unbeatable in most realms, especially at 1600 dollars parts cost. especially in a nice big room fed a few super clean watts....
but the whole notion of unbeatable is stupid to me. its more about taste. about the sonic paridigm you wish to reproduce. different levels of "mania"
some DIYers out there deal in 50000 to 100000 dollars in <parts> to get paridigm altering front loaded horn systems that they spend many (sometimes many many) years tuning to get to sound right post construction.
for the super expensive stuff most companies do little more than cosmetically dress up the easiest to impliment and still cheapest components they know of. thinking few will know the difference in sound and trust the high price tag as its own self evidence. and usually, few of their dumb rich customers do. at least in america, where our musical sensitivities have been systematically blunted by poorly implimented transistors for so many years.
it takes real motivation to get music through transducers. everyone has a point they are happy with stopping at I guess. mine still aint there yet. I won't be happy till I get sennheiser orpheus sound to come through loudspeakers. I will probably die of old age before I succeed. is that a reason to DIY?
Clark
a reason to DIY is to get the very very best....
I feel that the fe206es-r back loaded horns I built are fairly unbeatable in most realms, especially at 1600 dollars parts cost. especially in a nice big room fed a few super clean watts....
but the whole notion of unbeatable is stupid to me. its more about taste. about the sonic paridigm you wish to reproduce. different levels of "mania"
some DIYers out there deal in 50000 to 100000 dollars in <parts> to get paridigm altering front loaded horn systems that they spend many (sometimes many many) years tuning to get to sound right post construction.
for the super expensive stuff most companies do little more than cosmetically dress up the easiest to impliment and still cheapest components they know of. thinking few will know the difference in sound and trust the high price tag as its own self evidence. and usually, few of their dumb rich customers do. at least in america, where our musical sensitivities have been systematically blunted by poorly implimented transistors for so many years.
it takes real motivation to get music through transducers. everyone has a point they are happy with stopping at I guess. mine still aint there yet. I won't be happy till I get sennheiser orpheus sound to come through loudspeakers. I will probably die of old age before I succeed. is that a reason to DIY?
Clark
I did find that review to be seriously lacking in technical information. It reads more like what one would expect of an infomercial, rather than a in depth review. The fact that there's a large ad for those speakers on the next page is not lost on me either. I miss the days when they first put them in a lab and print all the technical measurements that these reviews used to carry. Call me silly, but if the tech specs dont look good, I usually wont even bother giving a listen. Conversely, I've heard some finely spec'd specimens sound like dogs through a tin can. Subjective listening is all about preferences, taste, and hearing. Poorly spec'd speakers can sound decent, but they still remain poorly spec'd. Same goes for well spec'd speakers that don't suit your environment or tastes. There is no single 'right-est' opinion.
The reason I'm getting back into DIY is because I like to obsess over details. To me, agonizing over extended response Vs. room obtrusion, driver cost Vs. specs, driver matching, box matching, crossover design, etc, ad nauseum, is what I find most delightful. Where's the obsession over fine details when you just plop down your money and haul 'em home? Where's the love that goes into every detail? Anyone with a job can plop down a thousand bucks for a pair of speakers. To a true DIYer, it's not all about the money, or the value. Mass manufactured speakers ARE cheaper than anything hand crafted if you discount the substantial profit margins.
And just take a look at some of the projects showcased by the regulars on this forum. Many are works of art - by artists. Sure, the engineering is there, but their technical competence is totally eclipsed by their artistic skills and talent. You just can't buy that in a store.
As it stands, my first project is turning out to be the $600-700 USD per pair that morbo essentially described to a T.
The reason I'm getting back into DIY is because I like to obsess over details. To me, agonizing over extended response Vs. room obtrusion, driver cost Vs. specs, driver matching, box matching, crossover design, etc, ad nauseum, is what I find most delightful. Where's the obsession over fine details when you just plop down your money and haul 'em home? Where's the love that goes into every detail? Anyone with a job can plop down a thousand bucks for a pair of speakers. To a true DIYer, it's not all about the money, or the value. Mass manufactured speakers ARE cheaper than anything hand crafted if you discount the substantial profit margins.
And just take a look at some of the projects showcased by the regulars on this forum. Many are works of art - by artists. Sure, the engineering is there, but their technical competence is totally eclipsed by their artistic skills and talent. You just can't buy that in a store.
As it stands, my first project is turning out to be the $600-700 USD per pair that morbo essentially described to a T.
Re: DIY is all about experimenting.
marvinzzmartian said:Magnetar you are a real nut case.
Nah ,The only speakers worth DIY are horns . Did ya'all hear me guys.
H OOOOO RNS .HORNS , HORNS
This is the only type of speaker which can go beyond the realm of typical hi-end crap
with all meaningless CDS plots , waterfalls and speaker "arcana" .
I was (and probably still am ) one of those idiots with overly aesthetics concerns . One look on the hideous Audiogon Virtual systems have a curing effect. I'm especially fond of those with violet lights and blue diodes. I bet the owners put on masturbators when they listen .(I wear it every time I've got to listen to Hi-End speakers)
Price points - most companies won't invest 50 cents more in a product because one its "good enough for the price and the price class" second It'll make product equal to their more (sometimes much )expensive offerings.
I agree that spending $30.000 on speaker is plainly stupid -if they are not HOOORNS.
You got the message
bastek said:
No , not at all .There are many people who drive horns with honky SS amps .The fact that you can use low power tubes is just a bonus if you like what tubes do. Proper horns present such a different beautiful musicality with startling dynamics and effortlessness that there is no alternative for it in other type of transducers. They require lots of work and some space (but not as much space as some think) and they don't have to be prohibitively expensive if you choose wisely and are patient with sourcing drivers. Thats why I think horns are especially worthy of DIY pursuit and almost all horn installations are unique .
Back to topic if I can say one reason "not to diy" is illusion of "money savings" in DIY effort (if we consider serious ,engaged DIY and not putting a kit together in one evening without the idea what that gizmo really does)
Regards, L
leadbelly said:
I repect your opinion, but personally I disagree with most of what you said. Anyways, debates like this are pointless, so go on without me
I've listened to many different speakers ranging from hundreds to thousands of dollars over many years and, over the last ten years or so, the only speakers that I've really liked cost about $20,000.
I used to work at a speaker company and while I was there I built a prototype of a driver that the owner of the company has been wanting to build for many years, that particular driver covered the range from about 30 hz - ~2.2Khz omnidirectionally and there were qualities to the sound (making it sound closer to an actual live instrument) that are simply missing from any of these: horns, electrostatic panels, dipole/box hybrid speakers, or std. "box" speakers.
To buy a completed design with the same capability would cost at least thousands of $ ~ and even then, all of the commercially available designs which utilize omni radiation are fairly flawed.
Not only was I not particularly excited by any of the commercial designs that I auditioned that were anywhere near affordable, I found listening to them to be fatiguing, giving me headaches more than pleasure.
I used to listen to music a lot, I was a real music lover, now, each time I listen it's a dissapointment, unless I'm listening to live music, or at a concert where the ambiance and energy of the event can outweigh the shortcomings of the acoustic system.
I spend a few hundred $ here and there on parts, and I've got a few thousand $ invested in tools, but, I like to have a woodshop not just for speakers. It will be enjoyable to teach my son some woodworking, and perhaps some speakerbuilding, skills.
I am no expert so lets get that clear up front *LOL* I auditioned the silver series on about oh... 6-7 occasions. While I liked them, I never like them as much as the gold reference series which I thought were quite amazing.... I will not go into all of the bable... but the GR's were one heck of a step up overall IMO.
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