Hello folks,
Sorry if this topic is covered, my search could not find a specific thread regarding this design.
The idea is to make a high end, Auratone 5c like speaker, which is more detailed in dynamics, FR and transients.
I have the classic Auratones as well as Quested S7r, and wanted some of both worlds- so i can eq and balance without a crossover.
The speaker needs to handle loud eq notches without being destroyed. Also as less as possible dips and hills over its FR.
I dont care if theres a somehow-steady slope down of treble.
Passive design, 4-5 intch, sealed. i have two arcam 300 and cambridge audio to drive them
Thought about Fostex fw108hs, or mark audio alpair 7.
What would you experts think? Is it doable or a waist of money and time?
Any reference would be appreciated.
Vamzi.
Sorry if this topic is covered, my search could not find a specific thread regarding this design.
The idea is to make a high end, Auratone 5c like speaker, which is more detailed in dynamics, FR and transients.
I have the classic Auratones as well as Quested S7r, and wanted some of both worlds- so i can eq and balance without a crossover.
The speaker needs to handle loud eq notches without being destroyed. Also as less as possible dips and hills over its FR.
I dont care if theres a somehow-steady slope down of treble.
Passive design, 4-5 intch, sealed. i have two arcam 300 and cambridge audio to drive them
Thought about Fostex fw108hs, or mark audio alpair 7.
What would you experts think? Is it doable or a waist of money and time?
Any reference would be appreciated.
Vamzi.
I’m just starting to play with the SB Acoustics SB12MNRX25-4 4” midrange.
It has a very flat FR and it sounds very promising with good detail retrieval and smooth vocals especially female.
4" SB12MNRX25-4 :: SB Acoustics
The Satori I suspect would sound even better.
It has a very flat FR and it sounds very promising with good detail retrieval and smooth vocals especially female.
4" SB12MNRX25-4 :: SB Acoustics
The Satori I suspect would sound even better.
I think that if you are going for neutral sound, the Visaton B80 would be on the top of my list. Clean, clear and detailed without coloring the sound.
There's also the new SBA I am waiting for to arrive here.
Looks very flat FR, and SBA drivers are usually top notch construction.
SB Acoustics :: 3” SB10PGC21-4<br><font color="#C70039">SHIPPING</font>
There's also the new SBA I am waiting for to arrive here.
Looks very flat FR, and SBA drivers are usually top notch construction.
SB Acoustics :: 3” SB10PGC21-4<br><font color="#C70039">SHIPPING</font>
You might try the PRV if you want an Auratone killer. A 2L to 3L sealed box is good. No point in making this a BR. There’s no bass worth chasing at the expense of distortion.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-waw-applications.htm
It needs a woofer in a FAST though as it has nothing below 150Hz. But above this it has some of the best dynamics around. Very clean and low distortion.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-waw-applications.htm
It needs a woofer in a FAST though as it has nothing below 150Hz. But above this it has some of the best dynamics around. Very clean and low distortion.
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Guys, you are amazing. Thank you very much!
I checked each option you listed, and leaning forward two options( i need two sets so its cool to buy two pairs)- the B80 and the prv. Both looks very promising, the visaton frequency response and the prv's power handling. So good that my brain made a second stage to the plan- the one that i like the most will get a complimentary subwoofer to each. If it fails and non would be worthy the subwoofer search i end up with two sets of "shitboxes" and still be happy
A few thoughts-
1. Fatiguing, or the lack of is very very important to me. Somedays i listen to stuff 12 hours straight. I listen to them at 1 meter away from each ear and same height as the ears, so strange freq res like the SB10 from 10k-20k is out of the question. If you feel that theres something to know about the B80 or the prv in that perspective feel free to share.
2. I prefer sealed boxes for the woofers for that kind of work. Its very important to me that the woofer would be placed as close as possible to the tops (like right under? Youre the experts). Also it must have a smooth transition around its xo point. I know it requires knowledge besides skills (I do have electrical knowledge and built microphone preamps, compressors and amps that i use. Also know my way with wood and have both electrical lab and private professional woodworkshop). So im open to learn as much
The woofer and fullrange should have the same speed as much as possilbe.
If im talking rubbish or its a too big of a challenge, please tell me what you guys think. If other configuration like seas king coax (i love coax) would get me easier to where im heading also feel free to spread thoughts.
Thank you very very much!
Vamzi.
I checked each option you listed, and leaning forward two options( i need two sets so its cool to buy two pairs)- the B80 and the prv. Both looks very promising, the visaton frequency response and the prv's power handling. So good that my brain made a second stage to the plan- the one that i like the most will get a complimentary subwoofer to each. If it fails and non would be worthy the subwoofer search i end up with two sets of "shitboxes" and still be happy
A few thoughts-
1. Fatiguing, or the lack of is very very important to me. Somedays i listen to stuff 12 hours straight. I listen to them at 1 meter away from each ear and same height as the ears, so strange freq res like the SB10 from 10k-20k is out of the question. If you feel that theres something to know about the B80 or the prv in that perspective feel free to share.
2. I prefer sealed boxes for the woofers for that kind of work. Its very important to me that the woofer would be placed as close as possible to the tops (like right under? Youre the experts). Also it must have a smooth transition around its xo point. I know it requires knowledge besides skills (I do have electrical knowledge and built microphone preamps, compressors and amps that i use. Also know my way with wood and have both electrical lab and private professional woodworkshop). So im open to learn as much
The woofer and fullrange should have the same speed as much as possilbe.
If im talking rubbish or its a too big of a challenge, please tell me what you guys think. If other configuration like seas king coax (i love coax) would get me easier to where im heading also feel free to spread thoughts.
Thank you very very much!
Vamzi.
Look at the 4” Mark Audios.
Any driver. For bass in a small Auratone enclosure you want to target a sealed volume such that the Q is between 0.7 and say 1 (max-flat to a small bump). Look at the F6/F10, F3 is meaningless to the human ear/brain (ref Toole).
I built a pair in the vien you are looking at with Alpair 10.2eN.
dave
Any driver. For bass in a small Auratone enclosure you want to target a sealed volume such that the Q is between 0.7 and say 1 (max-flat to a small bump). Look at the F6/F10, F3 is meaningless to the human ear/brain (ref Toole).
I built a pair in the vien you are looking at with Alpair 10.2eN.
dave
Attachments
There's always more than one way to achieve great sound.
It's all a question of preference.
1. Since you are going to use EQ ( as in your initial post), even a ragged FR could be tamed. Just remember to bring down the peaks, but don't try to bring up the notches if possible.
Non fatiguing is a question of how much high frequencies you can tolerate (everyone is different) and also very related to distortion.
The PRV and B80 have very low distortion over their useable bandwidth, so they should be great.
2. Sealed is fine, especially if you are going with a sub, or two.
You could consider adding the miniDSP 2x4HD to the mix, then you could add your EQ, play with XO curves and points, and even add some DRC filters.
If you want to go completely passive, then have a look at the freeware called XSim. With your electrical background, you should really enjoy that!
XSim free crossover designer
Coax is another ballgame.
TB has recently added a nice 6.5" coax. They will need an XO, but they do sound nice once dialled in.
TB new line of Coax FR drivers
It's all a question of preference.
1. Since you are going to use EQ ( as in your initial post), even a ragged FR could be tamed. Just remember to bring down the peaks, but don't try to bring up the notches if possible.
Non fatiguing is a question of how much high frequencies you can tolerate (everyone is different) and also very related to distortion.
The PRV and B80 have very low distortion over their useable bandwidth, so they should be great.
2. Sealed is fine, especially if you are going with a sub, or two.
You could consider adding the miniDSP 2x4HD to the mix, then you could add your EQ, play with XO curves and points, and even add some DRC filters.
If you want to go completely passive, then have a look at the freeware called XSim. With your electrical background, you should really enjoy that!
XSim free crossover designer
Coax is another ballgame.
TB has recently added a nice 6.5" coax. They will need an XO, but they do sound nice once dialled in.
TB new line of Coax FR drivers
Guys, you are amazing. Thank you very much!
I checked each option you listed, and leaning forward two options( i need two sets so its cool to buy two pairs)- the B80 and the prv. Both looks very promising, the visaton frequency response and the prv's power handling. So good that my brain made a second stage to the plan- the one that i like the most will get a complimentary subwoofer to each. If it fails and non would be worthy the subwoofer search i end up with two sets of "shitboxes" and still be happy
A few thoughts-
1. Fatiguing, or the lack of is very very important to me. Somedays i listen to stuff 12 hours straight. I listen to them at 1 meter away from each ear and same height as the ears, so strange freq res like the SB10 from 10k-20k is out of the question. If you feel that theres something to know about the B80 or the prv in that perspective feel free to share.
2. I prefer sealed boxes for the woofers for that kind of work. Its very important to me that the woofer would be placed as close as possible to the tops (like right under? Youre the experts). Also it must have a smooth transition around its xo point. I know it requires knowledge besides skills (I do have electrical knowledge and built microphone preamps, compressors and amps that i use. Also know my way with wood and have both electrical lab and private professional woodworkshop). So im open to learn as much
The woofer and fullrange should have the same speed as much as possilbe.
If im talking rubbish or its a too big of a challenge, please tell me what you guys think. If other configuration like seas king coax (i love coax) would get me easier to where im heading also feel free to spread thoughts.
Thank you very very much!
Vamzi.
Thank you very much for your response. The eq i mentioned is a part of my work, since im a sound engineer. Its not present on the monitor bus (which i want to leave as clean as possible with minimal processing). The notches i mentioned are used to find frequencies in the material that needs treat. Usually an 18db narrow q notch for a very short time (around 5 seconds).
At first i thought of making a better auratone. But since i saw the suggested drivers i thought it cound be much more then that. Im trying to understand if theres holes in my plans, since i couldnt find an existing system that has a good full range and a sub in separated sealed cabs. So maybe its not the best route to go.
I will order the prv and B80 in the next few days and what the initial thoughts are.
All the best,
Vamzi.
A good design for a monitor using a woofer for low end combined with a FR driver would be X's design using the 10F and RS225.
You can substitute the 10F with the B80.
Using a first order XO, and dual sealed chambers, that would be pretty close to what you would like to do.
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor
You can substitute the 10F with the B80.
Using a first order XO, and dual sealed chambers, that would be pretty close to what you would like to do.
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor
Thank you Perceval, i looked into this thread in the past week, i think its perfect for my needs, learned allot from this thread by the way.
Even thouth about a different scheme that comes from this design, to try too with the prv- only with a tweeter (3way). But maybe its too complicated and to mess up phase coherence for super highs... Tough choise. I wonder if that speaker can be built with the Prv that XRK introduced to me, and a matching woofer power-wise. Indeed, great options that really wasnt around just a few years ago.
Thank you all again for contributing. From reading you guys im getting lots of priceless info
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Hi Vamzi,
If you like the PRV, you will need a woofer (or woofers) that approach it in terms of sensitivity. Those will all be pro-audio types to get to 95dB. Another way to do it is to get two 89dB regular HiFi woofers and use them in parallel for 95dB sensitivity. You will still lose 5db for baffle step loss though so overall sensitivity will still be only 90dB. So you will have to pad (attenuate with resistors) the output of the PRV. So kind of a waste. Also the PRV is not as a neutral sound as a B80 or 10F or TC9FD / TG9FD.
If you stray off the design I posted with the RS225-8, you will have to measure and make your own crossover. It’s a lot of work - that XO looks simple but took me months of work to get it to where it is now. A flat response and very wide bandwidth woofer is critical. There are not a lot drivers like the RS225-8. It’s the woofer that makes that speaker good. Almost any 3.5in 8ohm full range can be substituted and resistors adjusted to achieve a similar result. But that woofer is not interchangeable.
If you like the PRV, you will need a woofer (or woofers) that approach it in terms of sensitivity. Those will all be pro-audio types to get to 95dB. Another way to do it is to get two 89dB regular HiFi woofers and use them in parallel for 95dB sensitivity. You will still lose 5db for baffle step loss though so overall sensitivity will still be only 90dB. So you will have to pad (attenuate with resistors) the output of the PRV. So kind of a waste. Also the PRV is not as a neutral sound as a B80 or 10F or TC9FD / TG9FD.
If you stray off the design I posted with the RS225-8, you will have to measure and make your own crossover. It’s a lot of work - that XO looks simple but took me months of work to get it to where it is now. A flat response and very wide bandwidth woofer is critical. There are not a lot drivers like the RS225-8. It’s the woofer that makes that speaker good. Almost any 3.5in 8ohm full range can be substituted and resistors adjusted to achieve a similar result. But that woofer is not interchangeable.
Thank you very much XRK. I will follow your path, i understand how each change can affect whole other stuff. Can you tell me whats the advantages of the 10f vs the visaton to your ears? Does the visaton extended highs comes at some cost? Maybe doing two sets with each kind or you feel like one of them is better as a studio system?
The B80 and 10F are actually very similar - the difference being the sonic signature of a fiber glass cone vs a paper cone. Fiberglass, to my ear, sounds smoother and more refined. It has a 'glassy shimmer' that is hard to describe. It might have something to do with the spectral decay. They are both great drivers and you can't go wrong either way.
Too bad all Satori FR are low efficiency.
This suggested Satori beside have a organic sound hybrid paper cone reach 12kHz only, there is other 4'' model alu cone FS 52Hz that reach 18kHz but equally low efficiency;
4" SB12PAC25-4 :: SB Acoustics
perceval, xrk: I got a pair of these. Care to share what enclosure is suitable for them? Thank you!
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