indeed, but as often with tweaks, the end result is always a combination of the total audio chain.
The tweak was done in the first place to reduce the HF noise on the output, which in some cases could even lead to small cracks in the music, specially when four or more decks are being used.
The extra effect of lowering the HF noise is that the music gets smoother without loosing dynamics or detail. But it might be a matter of taste if you like it.
I must say, the reactions of DIY who did so now, were all in one direction... keep the capacitors on top
If I find some time, I will need to spend a page on my website on this....
A new DDDAC is playing
Hi all,
I don't remember how I found this thread some weeks ago but I can say that I am one of the lucky guys that meet Doede and his fantastic DDDAC. I was sheptic at the beginning because is my first approch to the object "DAC". I build my amplifier from F5Turbo project and the preamplifier DCB1 (is the one under the DDDAC on the picture).
Long story short, my DDDAC is playing music since 2 days and I never think to have this result... Is simply perfect!!!... the music flow out so suite and clean... I can't stop to play music... Doede was always available with his advice since the beginning and I can say that after soldering more or less 100 electrolitics I was quite sure that something get in wrong way... not at all!!! First power on and everything works perfectly.
Thanks Doede for your fantastic project that you share with all of us.
Enrico
Hi all,
I don't remember how I found this thread some weeks ago but I can say that I am one of the lucky guys that meet Doede and his fantastic DDDAC. I was sheptic at the beginning because is my first approch to the object "DAC". I build my amplifier from F5Turbo project and the preamplifier DCB1 (is the one under the DDDAC on the picture).
Long story short, my DDDAC is playing music since 2 days and I never think to have this result... Is simply perfect!!!... the music flow out so suite and clean... I can't stop to play music... Doede was always available with his advice since the beginning and I can say that after soldering more or less 100 electrolitics I was quite sure that something get in wrong way... not at all!!! First power on and everything works perfectly.
Thanks Doede for your fantastic project that you share with all of us.
Enrico
Attachments
I reply too fast.... I found in the post 492 the connection ... thanksI went to the DDDac web site and found that the 1543 SPDIF & I2S Receiver Board is sold out. Will these become available again or will I have to find a suitable substitute?
I plan to build a DDDac 1794 with WAVEIO. I already have a Rakk DAC III with a PCM1794 chip and Lundahl 1674 outputs which sounds fantastic. I need a second DAC and love the PCM1794 sound. The dual mono NOS version should be even better.
I plan to build a DDDac 1794 with WAVEIO. I already have a Rakk DAC III with a PCM1794 chip and Lundahl 1674 outputs which sounds fantastic. I need a second DAC and love the PCM1794 sound. The dual mono NOS version should be even better.
indeed, all feedback goes in that direction. Dual MONO, stacked boards, NOS delivers unparalleled analogue sound.
Now, Even though spdif is not up to the SQ of the USB streaming, I realized there is a practical side to things as well. So decided to add this now
therefore I can now announce, I am at the drawing board, designing a second mainboard, which will be offered next to the existing mainboard. It will have a WM8804 based spdif input. On board switching / selection for USB or spdif of course. I might add space for an optional Tent Clock.
Timing is as follows:
Design ready beginning Nov and order pcb and parts for first prototype building.
beginning December, have SMD parts assembled on the pcbs
mid December build first prototypes and do testing. Technical and listening.
IF everything is ok order parts and PCBs beginning January
beginning February, things should be available in normal quantities...
so, now I have put this down, I made some nice deadlines for my self, haha
I will build a few prototypes with one, four and eight dac boards. anyone interested to buy one of those after first success, can send me a normal mail.
Doede,
Just ordered your WaveIO kit. I hope that the WAVEIO USB WASAPI driver works with JRiver running on Windows 8 otherwise it's on to Foobar.
I also would like to see your new SPDIF main board include upgrade provisions for a premium low jitter clock and shunt voltage regulator. My understanding is that the PCM1794 board gets the clock signal from whatever device is providing the I2S data stream.
Eventually I want to build a high end equivalent to the Behringer DCX2496 using PCM1794 DACs, MiniDSP crossover/equalizer, Beis ADC (already built) and whatever connections sound the best for use with my 3-way speakers.
Just ordered your WaveIO kit. I hope that the WAVEIO USB WASAPI driver works with JRiver running on Windows 8 otherwise it's on to Foobar.
I also would like to see your new SPDIF main board include upgrade provisions for a premium low jitter clock and shunt voltage regulator. My understanding is that the PCM1794 board gets the clock signal from whatever device is providing the I2S data stream.
Eventually I want to build a high end equivalent to the Behringer DCX2496 using PCM1794 DACs, MiniDSP crossover/equalizer, Beis ADC (already built) and whatever connections sound the best for use with my 3-way speakers.
Thanks for your Feedback / inputs! I tried Jriver here and it worked fine. so should also at your place..
Nice Approach. No MiniDSP expert, but was there not an issue on I2s not running in slave mode?
indeed, all feedback goes in that direction. Dual MONO, stacked boards, NOS delivers unparalleled analogue sound.
Now, Even though spdif is not up to the SQ of the USB streaming, I realized there is a practical side to things as well. So decided to add this now
therefore I can now announce, I am at the drawing board, designing a second mainboard, which will be offered next to the existing mainboard. It will have a WM8804 based spdif input. On board switching / selection for USB or spdif of course. I might add space for an optional Tent Clock.
Timing is as follows:
Design ready beginning Nov and order pcb and parts for first prototype building.
beginning December, have SMD parts assembled on the pcbs
mid December build first prototypes and do testing. Technical and listening.
IF everything is ok order parts and PCBs beginning January
beginning February, things should be available in normal quantities...
so, now I have put this down, I made some nice deadlines for my self, haha
I will build a few prototypes with one, four and eight dac boards. anyone interested to buy one of those after first success, can send me a normal mail.
Great news Doede and looking forward to the data as you release it
Thanks for verifying JRiver with the WaveIO.
I'm no MiniDSP expert either, but there are two other 96k DSP crossover/equalization processing units by the same Co. The NanoDIGI is designed for SPDIF in and out and is probably their most successful DSP to date. The MiniSHARC is designed for I2S in and out and has more processing capability, but is still getting the firmware bugs worked out.
I'm going to work with the DDDac PCM1794 first before getting a processor. I've got to learn about I2S master/slave and other linking considerations. Know of any good writeup on I2S linking?
I'm no MiniDSP expert either, but there are two other 96k DSP crossover/equalization processing units by the same Co. The NanoDIGI is designed for SPDIF in and out and is probably their most successful DSP to date. The MiniSHARC is designed for I2S in and out and has more processing capability, but is still getting the firmware bugs worked out.
I'm going to work with the DDDac PCM1794 first before getting a processor. I've got to learn about I2S master/slave and other linking considerations. Know of any good writeup on I2S linking?
DDDac 1794 and default Apple Mac/iTunes beginners issue.
Why did I write this note:
This is my first DAC and therefor my first contact with setting up Audio output in various operating systems.
On his website, Doede has a good description on how to set up the foobar player for Microsoft Windows.
Nothing was written about default Apple OS X/iTunes setup, (only, that no drivers are required for the WaveIO board, it is supported out of the box), which is true.
My issue:
Connecting the DDDac 1794 system directly to my Symasym or F5 Pass clone amplifiers(without preamp), without playing music,
gave me a low volume high frequency hissing sound from the speaker tweeters (Both JBL E20 and KEF LS50).
I do call this the sound of a leaking bicycle tyre, meaning you must have your ears close to the speaker to hear the sound.
Also on playing music, in the silent parts of the songs, this hissing sound was audible, (again note this is about default Apple OSX/iTunes).
At first I suspected an issue with the WaveIO board so I did order a new one, the hissing was still present when the new WaveIO board arrived and was installed.
Then Doede published a fix for an issue with 8 dec setup and high frequency quantization noise:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-55.html#post3625871
I did try this, but that did not resolve my issue.
When I did ask Doede, if he was familiar with this issue, he responded that he did not know of any one else having this issue,
but he also wrote, "with 192kHz music you should not hear this, the quantization noise then is -120dB in the high frequency".
This line made me rethink:
- First of all, when playing music with the default Apple OS X/iTunes setup, most of the times NO frequency LED was lid on the DDDac motherboard.
- When I unplugged the USB cable and reconnect the USB cable the 48 Khz LED was lid.
I did look in the iTunes setup, but could not find any way to modify the output frequency at all.
So I restarted testing with the Windows 7 and the foobar player,
on power up of the DAC on the Windows system, there was also the audible hiss, but on disconnecting/reconnecting the USB cable the hiss was reduced considerably.
Playing music with the foobar program (and the setup described on the DDDac 1794 website) no hissing noise was heard.
So now I knew, it is possible to play music on my system without the hissing noise,
(and that I should have done this test with the foobar player before ordering a new WaveIO board).
After some googling, I found some notes about an Apple OS X utility called "Audio Midi Setup".
After setting the output frequency to 192 KHz for the "Luckit USB 2.0 Audio Out" device in the "Audio Midi Setup" utility,
see the attached screenshot (the setup of my system is Dutch), the hissing disappeared.
Playing music with the default Apple iTunes is a real pleasure now.
Some additional notes:
- I now know that there are plugins for iTunes with there own settings (and better output control?).
- The high frequency hissing sound was more pronounced on the Symasym, and less audible on the F5 Pass clone amplifier.
- The quest for the right Apple OsX / iTunes setup took some time and Doede was very help full on resolving this issue.
Why did I write this note:
This is my first DAC and therefor my first contact with setting up Audio output in various operating systems.
On his website, Doede has a good description on how to set up the foobar player for Microsoft Windows.
Nothing was written about default Apple OS X/iTunes setup, (only, that no drivers are required for the WaveIO board, it is supported out of the box), which is true.
My issue:
Connecting the DDDac 1794 system directly to my Symasym or F5 Pass clone amplifiers(without preamp), without playing music,
gave me a low volume high frequency hissing sound from the speaker tweeters (Both JBL E20 and KEF LS50).
I do call this the sound of a leaking bicycle tyre, meaning you must have your ears close to the speaker to hear the sound.
Also on playing music, in the silent parts of the songs, this hissing sound was audible, (again note this is about default Apple OSX/iTunes).
At first I suspected an issue with the WaveIO board so I did order a new one, the hissing was still present when the new WaveIO board arrived and was installed.
Then Doede published a fix for an issue with 8 dec setup and high frequency quantization noise:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-55.html#post3625871
I did try this, but that did not resolve my issue.
When I did ask Doede, if he was familiar with this issue, he responded that he did not know of any one else having this issue,
but he also wrote, "with 192kHz music you should not hear this, the quantization noise then is -120dB in the high frequency".
This line made me rethink:
- First of all, when playing music with the default Apple OS X/iTunes setup, most of the times NO frequency LED was lid on the DDDac motherboard.
- When I unplugged the USB cable and reconnect the USB cable the 48 Khz LED was lid.
I did look in the iTunes setup, but could not find any way to modify the output frequency at all.
So I restarted testing with the Windows 7 and the foobar player,
on power up of the DAC on the Windows system, there was also the audible hiss, but on disconnecting/reconnecting the USB cable the hiss was reduced considerably.
Playing music with the foobar program (and the setup described on the DDDac 1794 website) no hissing noise was heard.
So now I knew, it is possible to play music on my system without the hissing noise,
(and that I should have done this test with the foobar player before ordering a new WaveIO board).
After some googling, I found some notes about an Apple OS X utility called "Audio Midi Setup".
After setting the output frequency to 192 KHz for the "Luckit USB 2.0 Audio Out" device in the "Audio Midi Setup" utility,
see the attached screenshot (the setup of my system is Dutch), the hissing disappeared.
Playing music with the default Apple iTunes is a real pleasure now.
Some additional notes:
- I now know that there are plugins for iTunes with there own settings (and better output control?).
- The high frequency hissing sound was more pronounced on the Symasym, and less audible on the F5 Pass clone amplifier.
- The quest for the right Apple OsX / iTunes setup took some time and Doede was very help full on resolving this issue.
Attachments
Great news, Doede!Now, Even though spdif is not up to the SQ of the USB streaming, I realized there is a practical side to things as well. So decided to add this now
therefore I can now announce, I am at the drawing board, designing a second mainboard, which will be offered next to the existing mainboard. It will have a WM8804 based spdif input. On board switching / selection for USB or spdif of course. I might add space for an optional Tent Clock.
I will build a few prototypes with one, four and eight dac boards. anyone interested to buy one of those after first success, can send me a normal mail.
I have been following this thread with great interests since made aware of it a week ago by a local audio friend (Tuyen) here in Western Australia. I am eager to build a 8 stack dac with 2 transformers output stage once the spdif and USB selectable switch are functional and becoming available. Hopefully is not too much longer then Doede’s planning schedule. I have also sent you an email of my interest in 8 stack configuration.
Please excuse this newbie’s observations and appreciate your educated advices. I see the parallel stacking of dacs are on top of the main board only.
1. Does it mean dacs cannot be stacking under the motherboard?
2. Would it be possible to simply stack 4 dacs on top and 4 dacs under the motherboard for the 8 dacs configuration?
Regards,
Chanh
......Please excuse this newbie’s observations and appreciate your educated advices. I see the parallel stacking of dacs are on top of the main board only.
1. Does it mean dacs cannot be stacking under the motherboard?
2. Would it be possible to simply stack 4 dacs on top and 4 dacs under the motherboard for the 8 dacs configuration?
Regards,
Chanh
See post 558 on this thread.
I have some question about the dddac pcm1794
Can i use a spdif card, and a WaveIO card to the motherboard (so i can change between them) ?
Is the Twisted pear spdif card the best ,or are there other card i can use (maybe from Europa) ?
If i use 4 pcm1794 print,,can i then get 3v on the output ,without having to big value I-V resistor ? (i will use cap output)
Best Bjarne
Can i use a spdif card, and a WaveIO card to the motherboard (so i can change between them) ?
Is the Twisted pear spdif card the best ,or are there other card i can use (maybe from Europa) ?
If i use 4 pcm1794 print,,can i then get 3v on the output ,without having to big value I-V resistor ? (i will use cap output)
Best Bjarne
maybe i have found out ,how the output volt behave (took a lot of reading )
The normal output with 4 deck is 1.2v-- (68ohm I-V)
If i use a Cinemag trafo 1:1 i will get 2.4v out,, right ?
I can use a relay to change between spdif and WaveIO right ?
Is the Twisted pear spdif card the best ,or are there other card i can use (maybe from Europa) ?
I hope all my reading, have make me to better understand this nos dac..
one thing about the sound---is the sound a bit thin ? or have i read wrong ?
best Bjarne
The normal output with 4 deck is 1.2v-- (68ohm I-V)
If i use a Cinemag trafo 1:1 i will get 2.4v out,, right ?
I can use a relay to change between spdif and WaveIO right ?
Is the Twisted pear spdif card the best ,or are there other card i can use (maybe from Europa) ?
I hope all my reading, have make me to better understand this nos dac..
one thing about the sound---is the sound a bit thin ? or have i read wrong ?
best Bjarne