If it's not going to cause a Kentucky Fried Amplifier, then I'm not going to worry about it.
The thing with the LC cab, it's just board, compacted saw dust. Not exactly tone wood.
What bass and amp do you have? I have a 70s Gibson EB3. I'd like to learn slapping, but it doesn't work on my bass, maybe because it's a short scale, not clunky enough.
Thanks/regards
Guitarski
The thing with the LC cab, it's just board, compacted saw dust. Not exactly tone wood.
What bass and amp do you have? I have a 70s Gibson EB3. I'd like to learn slapping, but it doesn't work on my bass, maybe because it's a short scale, not clunky enough.
Thanks/regards
Guitarski
From the speakers to the cab's female jack, I put a microphone cable. Not sure, in hindsight, if that's a good idea. How do you see that? At the female jack (or chassis part, what's it called ) I already have unstable readings on the multimeter.
Thanks/regards
Guitarski
Thanks/regards
Guitarski
Yeah I remember a handle just breaking out of the case. Not the most sturdy cab and it shouldn't sound that good given the materials, but somehow it does 😀. I've never heard it with a bass through it though.
The Gibson is a nice bass! Great old-scool sound to it. They look great too. My main basses are a Fender Jazz '72, Musicman Stingray '97 and a Warwick Streamer Stage1 '94. All 4 string.
The mic cable is not a good idea for connecting the cab. It will fry at higher power levels. The unstable readings could be due to a loose solder joint or cable break etc. Best to check every connection.
The Gibson is a nice bass! Great old-scool sound to it. They look great too. My main basses are a Fender Jazz '72, Musicman Stingray '97 and a Warwick Streamer Stage1 '94. All 4 string.
The mic cable is not a good idea for connecting the cab. It will fry at higher power levels. The unstable readings could be due to a loose solder joint or cable break etc. Best to check every connection.
Oh and amp-wise, I'm using my DIY tube pre (12AX7/12AT7) and 120W tube power amp (12AT7/ 4xKT88). Those go into my two separate 12" Vanderkley cabs, 8 ohms each.
You have an impressive collection of basses. The Stingray is my favorite. I have my eyes on its knockoff, the Sterling Sub 5.
So you're all tubes as well. I feel vindicated in my obsession.
Do you mean you have two 1x12 cabs?
Now I have to find my own cab. For guitarists it's simple. 2x12 or 4x12, depending on mobility or space. But for bass there are a bewildering number of possibilties. The popularity of 4x10 I don't get. I like 6x10, for the intensity, but would still need a bottom end.
Since I use it at home, I don't need a rugged construction, so why not a full range 2x15, with HF horn, for PA systems?
By the way, I metered again and got 5 ohm, and tested my cables at 1 ohm. So I'm good to go, getting my amp's DI into the DAW.
There's one thing about load I don't get. If you dial your amp's power volume back to zero (when using the DI output) does the cabinet still act as a load?
So you're all tubes as well. I feel vindicated in my obsession.
Do you mean you have two 1x12 cabs?
Now I have to find my own cab. For guitarists it's simple. 2x12 or 4x12, depending on mobility or space. But for bass there are a bewildering number of possibilties. The popularity of 4x10 I don't get. I like 6x10, for the intensity, but would still need a bottom end.
Since I use it at home, I don't need a rugged construction, so why not a full range 2x15, with HF horn, for PA systems?
By the way, I metered again and got 5 ohm, and tested my cables at 1 ohm. So I'm good to go, getting my amp's DI into the DAW.
There's one thing about load I don't get. If you dial your amp's power volume back to zero (when using the DI output) does the cabinet still act as a load?
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You should patent that thing, man, it's wild. You are the Italian Steve Jobs. It's too advanced for me, though.
Thanks. And yes, the Stingray is quite awesome. Installed a D-tuner so I can play along with RATM 😀. They can be found pretty cheap second hand. Some real gems out there.
But yes, after many many years of solid state and crappy so called 'tube front ends', I went all tube and never looked back. I love the sound. Too bad it's so damn heavy.
The amp is indeed connected to 2 separate 1x12" cabs. Bottom one for warmth and top for definition. Separate cabs makes the whole more portable too. Brands like Epifani and specially Aguilar make some awesome boxes. My Vanderkley is from a dutch builder. Makes same really nice stuff! No all-tube-gear though 😀
I'm not a big 4x10 fan too. Except for the Eden XLT cab. Sounds real nice! But for the most part they sound rather nasal and they sit too low to get any definition when you stand close to them.
PA cabs are not always the right way to go. Unlike populair belief, bass is not all about the 'bass'. Specially not in a band. The low E is 40Hz (or 41Hz I belief), but that's in the range of bassdrum, which is the lowest instrument. The first real useful frequency is 80Hz and 'warmth' comes from a small bump from 40Hz to 160Hz around that frequency. So the low mids are more important in a band situation. A full range PA cab will sound too wide and might even be lost entirely in the mix. That's why I like 12". Warmth + definition minus wool. At home, the rooms will likely be too small for what a 15" can produce. You'll barely hear the lows, while the neighbors are shaking on the couch. I don't know your budget, but I urge you to check out the Aguilars DB112 series.
5 ohm is fine! Like you said, the rest is cable, test leads etc.
With tube amps, you ALWAYS need a load, or you risk damage to the output tubes. Like I wrote earlier, the tubes 'see' the speakers connected. So if they see 'nothing', bad things happen. It has to do with transformer theory. The volume control is always before the output tubes, so it has no influence on the load the output sees.
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Thanks Funk,
I've learned so much, I wish I could do something in return. If you are in the neighborhood, you ought to stop by (B). See PM.
You're right about Aguillar, they are the best, very smooth. However, I feel drawn to the 15" sound, for bass. My computer will hardly pass on all of its lows (from the online samples), but its voicing is clearly different from the 12".
I might even stick to the LC cab for now and get a Palmer attenuator, because the Bugera is very loud.
Your point about PA speakers is well taken. Instrument speakers have to have the right blips. Maybe you could get that with a 31 band equalizer, but it may get artificial.
In our neck of the woods I don't see any 2nd hand Stingrays below a €1000. The Indonesian knockoff is very good, actually. I would get that for its 5th string and its slapping ability. Clean, the Stingray clearly has more tonal nuance and dynamics, but I wonder if you hear that in the mix. A real bassist wants a Stringray, that much is certain. The Sterling (which is Musicman) only has one tone.
You made a point about the e-string being 40 Hz. But that means a b-string will only produce overtones in an amp! Still it sounds lower than an e-string.
Well, yes. Weight may be why tube bass amps seem to be on their way out, sort of. My Bugera weighs in at 35 kg. It's got a very serious transformer, much better than you'd expect in that range.
Oh, wait a minute....is that a dummy load? I thought you were deriding my electronic amateurism and rightfully so.
Kudos to you.
Thanks/regards
Guitarski
I've learned so much, I wish I could do something in return. If you are in the neighborhood, you ought to stop by (B). See PM.
You're right about Aguillar, they are the best, very smooth. However, I feel drawn to the 15" sound, for bass. My computer will hardly pass on all of its lows (from the online samples), but its voicing is clearly different from the 12".
I might even stick to the LC cab for now and get a Palmer attenuator, because the Bugera is very loud.
Your point about PA speakers is well taken. Instrument speakers have to have the right blips. Maybe you could get that with a 31 band equalizer, but it may get artificial.
In our neck of the woods I don't see any 2nd hand Stingrays below a €1000. The Indonesian knockoff is very good, actually. I would get that for its 5th string and its slapping ability. Clean, the Stingray clearly has more tonal nuance and dynamics, but I wonder if you hear that in the mix. A real bassist wants a Stringray, that much is certain. The Sterling (which is Musicman) only has one tone.
You made a point about the e-string being 40 Hz. But that means a b-string will only produce overtones in an amp! Still it sounds lower than an e-string.
Well, yes. Weight may be why tube bass amps seem to be on their way out, sort of. My Bugera weighs in at 35 kg. It's got a very serious transformer, much better than you'd expect in that range.
Oh, wait a minute....is that a dummy load? I thought you were deriding my electronic amateurism and rightfully so.
Kudos to you.
Thanks/regards
Guitarski
Certainly it is a dummy load - 2 channels of 200W resistors.
This design combines power with fun😉
This design combines power with fun😉
My stingray was a real bargain at 700 euros. Plus strings, case, shoulder strap and jack cable. They really didn't know what they were selling! I see some gems come by now and then, but you have to get lucky. If you're after a 5 string, you'll have a harder time tracking one down though. I didn't know the subs were from Indonesia. I've played a 4 string in the past and was pretty impressed too!
Concerning the harmonics, yes you'll mostly hear the second harmonic and up from the B-string (goes for the E-string too, although in a different ratio). The amp probably has no problem amplifying it, but the cab will have a hard time reproducing it, plus the room needs to allow such low frequencies, standing waves etc.
The Bugera seems like a real nice amp! Never heard or played over it, but since it's all tube... 😀
Edit: The dummy load is hilarious! Powerbook hahaha
Concerning the harmonics, yes you'll mostly hear the second harmonic and up from the B-string (goes for the E-string too, although in a different ratio). The amp probably has no problem amplifying it, but the cab will have a hard time reproducing it, plus the room needs to allow such low frequencies, standing waves etc.
The Bugera seems like a real nice amp! Never heard or played over it, but since it's all tube... 😀
Edit: The dummy load is hilarious! Powerbook hahaha
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At 700 euros, it's grand theft.
It's good to hear you like the sub as well, but at 700 euro, I might go for the real thing.
What kind of Stingray do you have, an H, HH or HS? What is your favorite bass?
Am I correct that the casing is metal, in other words, does it have to be shielded?
And you're from Ireland, not Italy, sorry old chap.
Getting a 5-stringer will be my next step, but first I have to get my rig working. I'll be content with the 4x12 guitar cab for now, but will have to do some attenuation. I was wondering if the following would work:
The Bugera has 3 outputs wired in parallel. If I switch my amp to 2 ohm and connect the 4 ohm cab to one output and 8 ohm dummies to the other 2 outputs, then the power going through the cab is 20% of the total. Is that correct?
It's good to hear you like the sub as well, but at 700 euro, I might go for the real thing.
What kind of Stingray do you have, an H, HH or HS? What is your favorite bass?
Am I correct that the casing is metal, in other words, does it have to be shielded?
And you're from Ireland, not Italy, sorry old chap.
Getting a 5-stringer will be my next step, but first I have to get my rig working. I'll be content with the 4x12 guitar cab for now, but will have to do some attenuation. I was wondering if the following would work:
The Bugera has 3 outputs wired in parallel. If I switch my amp to 2 ohm and connect the 4 ohm cab to one output and 8 ohm dummies to the other 2 outputs, then the power going through the cab is 20% of the total. Is that correct?
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When in doubt, just get some high wattage resistors for the load and soak em in a bucket of oil.
At 700 euros, it's grand theft.
It's good to hear you like the sub as well, but at 700 euro, I might go for the real thing.
What kind of Stingray do you have, an H, HH or HS? What is your favorite bass?
Am I correct that the casing is metal, in other words, does it have to be shielded?
And you're from Ireland, not Italy, sorry old chap.
Getting a 5-stringer will be my next step, but first I have to get my rig working. I'll be content with the 4x12 guitar cab for now, but will have to do some attenuation. I was wondering if the following would work:
The Bugera has 3 outputs wired in parallel. If I switch my amp to 2 ohm and connect the 4 ohm cab to one output and 8 ohm dummies to the other 2 outputs, then the power going through the cab is 20% of the total. Is that correct?
I'm old scool, so only the H model for me 😀. Not as versatile as I'd like, but I grew up listening to RHCP, RATM, Guano Apes and other bass players with the Stingray and really wanted that same setup.
The 4 ohm cab will get 50%(!) of the total power if you connect it as suggested. The other half will be split over the 8 ohm resistors. Imagine 10 volts coming from the output. The 4 ohm will have 2.5 amps through it (I=V/R), and the 8 ohm resistors each 1.25 amps. Power=amps squares times the resistance (P=I2*R), so (2,5*2,5)*4 = 25 Watts of power of the 50 Watt total ((5*5)*2) = 50).
As Merlin already pointed out, you are doing things the hard way, especially when you are wasting a bunch of power in the dummy load, i.e., power not convering into sound. It's easier if you take out 2 tubes per side, and use a 16 Ohms speaker/dummy load on the 4 or 8 Ohms tap of the transformer (have not worked out the exact matching ratios but it should work) - now you can have power tube distortion at a much lower output power into the speaker or reactive attenuator like a HotPlate or a Palmer.
That sounds good. Some crunchy fried resistors with olives and Chardonnay. That's my kind of electronics.
Thanks for the number crunching, Funk. Don't mind the tangent, but if the security community still thinks I want to make an atomic bomb, I can't even apply Ohm's law. I'd create a banana instead of a mushroom. That ought to slash 50% off their budget.
Jazbo and Merlin are right, I have to pull some tubes, but it seems so wasteful. The Germans have a saying: "It has been payed for, so it must go down the hedge". Sounds better in their language.
First I have to check with Behringer, because the tube pulling may not be compatible with their Infineon system.
Thanks/regards
Guitarski
From Bugera's knowledge base:
Answer:
I'm not sure I want to do this. I think a 50% output reduction will more than put the amp over a threshold at which it sounds good at home level.
Answer:
I'm not sure I want to do this. I think a 50% output reduction will more than put the amp over a threshold at which it sounds good at home level.
"Technically, a tube amp can run on fewer power tubes than what it was originally designed to be used with. This will produce a sound that, in most cases, will sound more distorted. The drawback to this is that more strain will be applied to the amp's power transformer, therefore potentially shortening the life of the tube amp."
The above may be true if you simply pull out the tubes without adjusting the load impedance, then, the distortion would be worse but I still fail to see how it could effect the PT in any way or shorten the amp's life.
Since the purpose is for recording not live playing, I seriously doubt you would need 300W to make it sound good, and BTW, most recording for bass is done with DI straight into the board, the bass speakers are seldom mic'd. If you can not make a pair of power tube distortion sound good - it would be even harder to do with all the tubes installed.
The above may be true if you simply pull out the tubes without adjusting the load impedance, then, the distortion would be worse but I still fail to see how it could effect the PT in any way or shorten the amp's life.
Since the purpose is for recording not live playing, I seriously doubt you would need 300W to make it sound good, and BTW, most recording for bass is done with DI straight into the board, the bass speakers are seldom mic'd. If you can not make a pair of power tube distortion sound good - it would be even harder to do with all the tubes installed.
nothing wrong with an electric light bulb cheap too good question what's wrong with that???
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