I already built a sealed subwoofer using a Dayton classic 12 4and a bash 500w amp, it sounds pretty good. I heard it bottom out a few times last night while watching a movie. I plan on putting it in a larger enclosure some time soon, the one I have now is kind of small at 1.5ft3. should I built a second one or trade them in for a Goldenear forcefield 4. mind you my HT setup is about 60% theater use and 40% music?
A larger enclosure will allow the speaker to bottom out with less power, but may make it louder with less power.
Adding a second sub powered with the same level will add 6 dB level, almost twice as loud at the low frequencies that likely cause the bottoming.
Adding a second sub powered with the same level will add 6 dB level, almost twice as loud at the low frequencies that likely cause the bottoming.
Dayton Audio DCS305-4 12" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Yes, in fact the Bash 500S Digital Subwoofer Plate Amplifier 500W RMS is (spec.) 500 watts RMS @ 0.5% THD into 4 ohm and your driver, if it is this one Dayton Audio DCS305-4 12" Classic, has a max. excursion in a 42.5 L or 1.5ft³ (sealed) with 115 W@4 Ohms only, that's why.
What you need is a BR with lower extension in frequency and stronger/better reproduction at lower frequencies and less bottom out from the main amp like you said. BR amp power min (for Xmax): 215/230 W@4 Ohms. If you can make a real life sub worthy of it's name (if you have the area/space for it) then keep the amp for this next project, prepare... and go!
Dayton Audio DCS305-4 12" Classic
BR enclosure: 105 L@22.0 Hz
1xPort diameter/length: 5"(12.7cm)/25 5⁄8"(65.0cm)
F3=23 Hz
I think I might keep the Dayton classic12 and put it in another sealed enclosure with a 230w amp for my dad. and pick up an Eminence Lab12c for this project, maximum excursion is 13mm compared to 9.3mm and 500w RMS.
I wouldnt mind a ported subwoofer but I wanted to stay with sealed enclosure b/c of a flatter response curve and less group delay. but group delay above 30hz isnt too bad if tuner right and most music is around 30hz and higher.
Your statement was acknowledge.
(Having that in mind). A high Q (not a 2/3-Way) sealed sub has not a flatter response than a good design for a BR.
Read (high Q) low damping vs. (low Q) high damping.
http://www.speech.kth.se/prod/publications/files/qpsr/1966/1966_7_3_007-022.pdf
Heavily damped means the smallest oscillation in transient response, but 9-12dB lower for the stationary response, this means that the size relationship between the stationary and transient responses are essentially unaltered.
I guess the previous sentence is wrong somewhere (heavily damped?: shouldn't be where it is less damped oscillations are higher?!) but if you find the mistakes to correct is because you already understand it. You just get my point, and fell free to correct it... 😕 😀
Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer 4 Ohm | 290-668
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/LAB_12C.pdf
Are you using Linkwitz tranform? 7 - 20L
or boosting? >110L
if not a Q=0.707 is the ideal for your sealed enclosure without any correction. Have fun with your new sub.
EMINENCE LAB12C, VB = 40.0 L, QTC = 0.708, 92.1 dB/2.83V/m
F3 = 50 Hz
You need ~250 W@4 Ohms (not 500W) for this sealed design only (no active correction) for necessary power (RMS) @Xmax 13 mm (net 40L). 40L = 1.4126ft³
Eminence Lab 12C High Power 12" Subwoofer 4 Ohm | 290-668
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/LAB_12C.pdf
Are you using Linkwitz tranform? 7 - 20L
or boosting? >110L
if not a Q=0.707 is the ideal for your sealed enclosure without any correction. Have fun with your new sub.
EMINENCE LAB12C, VB = 40.0 L, QTC = 0.708, 92.1 dB/2.83V/m
F3 = 50 Hz
You need ~250 W@4 Ohms (not 500W) for this sealed design only (no active correction) for necessary power (RMS) @Xmax 13 mm (net 40L). 40L = 1.4126ft³
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Im confused how is the RMS 250@4ohms, is it DVC? eminence.com also has RMS rated at 500w for the lab12c. am I missing something here?
or I could just set the amp at 12 oclock and call it a day, maybe bump it to 300w in a smaller enclosure.
That means that excursion would be at it's peak Xmax with 250W@4Ohms (RMS) as I said. Overdriving it with more than that and you will surpass Xmax causing distortion.What is written does not matter, it's just how much the driver accepts without busting. Power and excursion are alignment and enclosure dependent. Do the simulations yourself to verify this, don't look at what the manufacturers write.
You can use a different amp (500W) no problem, you just now know the implications (extra RMS power).
You can use a different amp (500W) no problem, you just now know the implications (extra RMS power).
I took a second look at the Lab12C and I wasnt happy with the freq response. the eminence lab12 had a lower f3 and max excursion at a lower freq. the peak output wasnt as high but its not what Im after. the lab12 has a 6ohm impedance so I dont know how that would work with a 4ohm power amp?
I see, thats what Im getting with dayton classic 12 after reading your post I turned the amp down to 200w and it sounds just fine. I turn it up a little while listening to music but sounds clean at lower power.
Usually it takes about (less than) a week to find that... 😀
Attachments
everything is coming together. I think Im going to replace the driver with the eminence lab12 and build a new sealed box. at 1.8ft sealed the driver will take about 260w without over excursion. as for the dayton classic 12, that will go into a ported enclosure tuned to 30hz with a high pass filter.
Yes, it's about it.
1.8ft³ = 51L (sealed)
EMINENCE LAB 12, VB = 51.0 L, QTC = 0.730, 89.6 dB/2.83V/m
F3 = 43 Hz
30Hz@-8dB
Pmin 175 W@8 Ohms for ± 13.00 mm (27.41 V@19Hz)
(The spec 400 W amp would be needed w/this driver in case a BR 90-102L@19-21Hz tuning.)
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/LAB_12.pdf
1.8ft³ = 51L (sealed)
EMINENCE LAB 12, VB = 51.0 L, QTC = 0.730, 89.6 dB/2.83V/m
F3 = 43 Hz
30Hz@-8dB
Pmin 175 W@8 Ohms for ± 13.00 mm (27.41 V@19Hz)
(The spec 400 W amp would be needed w/this driver in case a BR 90-102L@19-21Hz tuning.)
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/LAB_12.pdf
well I bought the material and cut everything down to build a sealed cabinet at 1.8ft3 +/- .05cuft depending on bracing and amp displacement. I am at a road block and cant decide on the driver. Im between the Eminence Lab12 and Peerless xxls12, the lab12 has a higher spl, linear excursion and power handling than the peerless driver but I have read some reviews that said it was loose, that tells me its not very musical. I am happy with my dayton classic12 for music but it doesnt have the LF range for movies. I dont want to sacrifice too much SQ for max output but I already have a 500w bash amp. the peerless driver only takes 200-240w to reach max excursion and I would have to buy a smaller amp. the only reason Im staying with a sealed cabinet is b/c the driver cant start/stop on a dime and Im not too excited about port noise. My klipsh sub12 could reach quite low but it sounded like it was in a bathtub full of mud when listening to music.
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