hi everybody.
you do a very nice job here.
i was trying to run john sprajion`s drc to create a filter for
foobar 2000 and i managed it using cool edit pro.
etf can save impulse respones but i can`t figure out how they can be used for drc.
do they have to be compound with a some noise and saved as raw pcm?
i read drc works with impulse responces but they suggest 45 sec and an impluse responce is just a peak.
i also see shinobione is using it with a convolver.
if i do that do i need a lot of horsepower?
i am only looking for 2 channel drc without crossover and i have a pentium 4 1.5ghz
thanks in advance
you do a very nice job here.
i was trying to run john sprajion`s drc to create a filter for
foobar 2000 and i managed it using cool edit pro.
etf can save impulse respones but i can`t figure out how they can be used for drc.
do they have to be compound with a some noise and saved as raw pcm?
i read drc works with impulse responces but they suggest 45 sec and an impluse responce is just a peak.
i also see shinobione is using it with a convolver.
if i do that do i need a lot of horsepower?
i am only looking for 2 channel drc without crossover and i have a pentium 4 1.5ghz
thanks in advance
Hi back
I'm running foobar2000 with a 2 channel DRC on Duron 1800, no complaints on performance.
I created my filter following the DRC guide by Jones Rush. You can find it on Ed Wildgooses homepage.
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/DRC_User_Guide
I'm running foobar2000 with a 2 channel DRC on Duron 1800, no complaints on performance.
I created my filter following the DRC guide by Jones Rush. You can find it on Ed Wildgooses homepage.
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/DRC_User_Guide
Goodguy said:
hi goodguy.
which program did you use for measurements?
i used cool edit and it worked but but i can`t use a calibration file for the microphone so i wanted to use etf5 but i don`t know how.
i have no problems with foobar2000 with the horsepower.
my question is if i use console if it will be more hungry.
There is a new version of my "Simple Impulse Response Recorder" which seems to fix many of the previous win32 probs using ASIO. It should be up on http://www.duffroomcorrection.com in a day or so
Ed W
Ed W
OK, for those people looking for a really, really simple method to measure your impulse response then please try the new and improved tool from the location below
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Simple_Automated_IR_Measuring_Tool
The idea is that with a simple command line script you can measure your exact impulse response in one quick hit. Add in a couple of batch files and you can automate the whole generation and installation of your correction filters
Note: Windows seems really, really picky about the exact choice of params that we use to open up the audio device. The release above was tested using the small selection of audio cards that I have available. If you find problems then please, please let me know the debug details so that I can fix it up. Most problems are just a case of fiddling with the buffer sizes in the code, but I need to try and see some failure cases to figure out the best way to accomodate all cards reliably
There may be a little GUI to wrap around this available shortly.
Please let me have your feedback on how this works out for you: (ed [at] duffroomcorrection com)
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Simple_Automated_IR_Measuring_Tool
The idea is that with a simple command line script you can measure your exact impulse response in one quick hit. Add in a couple of batch files and you can automate the whole generation and installation of your correction filters
Note: Windows seems really, really picky about the exact choice of params that we use to open up the audio device. The release above was tested using the small selection of audio cards that I have available. If you find problems then please, please let me know the debug details so that I can fix it up. Most problems are just a case of fiddling with the buffer sizes in the code, but I need to try and see some failure cases to figure out the best way to accomodate all cards reliably
There may be a little GUI to wrap around this available shortly.
Please let me have your feedback on how this works out for you: (ed [at] duffroomcorrection com)
back,
Ok. But if I understood correctly, the convolver plugin for console cost quite a bit.
I used cool edit, but added the mic correction in DRC config file. I think it does the same thing?
ewildgoose,
I still have to normalize and combine the two filters by hand if I use foobar, am I correct?
Ok. But if I understood correctly, the convolver plugin for console cost quite a bit.
I used cool edit, but added the mic correction in DRC config file. I think it does the same thing?
ewildgoose,
I still have to normalize and combine the two filters by hand if I use foobar, am I correct?
Which two filters? DRC will normalise the filters for you, although on the default settings it will overload the output by around the same amount as you have set for the dip correction (around 6dB). So if you just drop the filter levels by around 6dB when using the DRC filters then you should be ok. No need for the full monty calculation process I think
To be honest, play safe and call it 8dB, with modern decent DACs the odd few dB lost is not a great problem.
However, my app is designed just to get you the IR to feed into DRC. It doesn't help you after that. Try the DirectX convolver if you want a cheap alternative to some of these expensive convolvers (something like http://convolver.sf.net ?)
Ed
To be honest, play safe and call it 8dB, with modern decent DACs the odd few dB lost is not a great problem.
However, my app is designed just to get you the IR to feed into DRC. It doesn't help you after that. Try the DirectX convolver if you want a cheap alternative to some of these expensive convolvers (something like http://convolver.sf.net ?)
Ed
I am "considering" an all in one utility which would do all the filter generation and crossover generation. Loading the filters into the convolver would probably still be convolver dependent, but we can see about supporting just a few standard ones.
Hypothetically how much is a totally integrated system worth to you? ie how much would you pay for out of the box DRC on a push button process? Would you pay for an extra PC box to do the convolution?
Are there other requirements (like it must integrate into some certain software DVD player, etc)
Ed
Hypothetically how much is a totally integrated system worth to you? ie how much would you pay for out of the box DRC on a push button process? Would you pay for an extra PC box to do the convolution?
Are there other requirements (like it must integrate into some certain software DVD player, etc)
Ed
Goodguy said:
how did you add the mic correction file to drc?
if i can do that i am ok with cool edit.
Ed,
I should have stopped to think about "simple impulse response measurement tool", which of course does only that. The two filters (left&right) created by DRC and combined into a stereo filter for foobar are a different thing...
Where do I find the dip correction gain?
I'm into this because it's cheap and very effective in my small room. The product would have to require minimal computer skills, have easy av-sync and be flexible enough. In addition there would have to be an proper way to control volume.
back,
There is a line in DRC config file which defines the file used for mic compensation. I used the ECM8000 correction file that came with DRC, since I use that mic.
http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/doc/drc.html
I should have stopped to think about "simple impulse response measurement tool", which of course does only that. The two filters (left&right) created by DRC and combined into a stereo filter for foobar are a different thing...
Where do I find the dip correction gain?
I'm into this because it's cheap and very effective in my small room. The product would have to require minimal computer skills, have easy av-sync and be flexible enough. In addition there would have to be an proper way to control volume.
back,
There is a line in DRC config file which defines the file used for mic compensation. I used the ECM8000 correction file that came with DRC, since I use that mic.
http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/doc/drc.html
maiky76 said:
Sorry Maiky, missed this one.
Your wrong about the Phantom 500 fan not stopping once its started. The Antec manual clearly states that it start the fan once the user selected temperature threshold is reached then stops once its gone below this value.
TBH it hasn't once kicked in for me yet. I set the fan start temperature to 57c and thanks to the excellent layout of the Antec P180 case I also have a Acoustifan Dustproof running at 5v(silent) pushing air over the PSU. With this configuration the PSU stays cool and the fan never kicks in even with several hours of gaming.
Also the Seasonic PSU don't have long enough +12v and +24v connections to fit well into the Antec P180 case.
BTW: This PC handles highdef, DVD and any other type of video with 5.1 alongwith XO & DRC with no stuttering or audio dropouts. Truely excellent performance.
It doesn't however run games without incident. I was playing FEAR the other day and I had all manner of strange noises going on, so I very quickly turned the amps off and switched to headphone.
So the verdict is fine for multichannel audio/video but gaming is more CPU orientated and eats up everything it can get so you still need a dedicated box for this. In the end I've decided to use headphones for gaming and the rest works perfectly.
Thanks to the brilliant work of Ed. Wildgoose with the Duff Room Correction site, I decided I'd redo a decent and proper version of what I started, and never finished with this thread.
The new version is now here:
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/User:ShinOBIWAN
And will be a thorough documentation of everything I know about DRC and PCXO's, from setting it up to what worked for me and stuff that didn't work so well. Its an ongoing thing so I'll update as time allows.
Please, please contribute something to the http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/ site if any information on there helps you to get into DRC. The more guides and variations on systems we have on there the better.
Thanks all and a big thanks to Ed. for the excellent DRC resource he has setup.
The new version is now here:
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/User:ShinOBIWAN
And will be a thorough documentation of everything I know about DRC and PCXO's, from setting it up to what worked for me and stuff that didn't work so well. Its an ongoing thing so I'll update as time allows.
Please, please contribute something to the http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/ site if any information on there helps you to get into DRC. The more guides and variations on systems we have on there the better.
Thanks all and a big thanks to Ed. for the excellent DRC resource he has setup.
It's looking really good. How about some pictures though? Are you totally finished now or is this part progress? (Feels like you were going to write more when I read down to the end?)
What do you think about the EMU cards? No linux drivers, but seem like pretty decent cards for the money under windows? There are OSS drivers for the Lynx card, but no proper linux support. RME is supported under linux though (don't know if you want to mention that?)
Erm. Oh, you mention using 2 PCs. How would you put them together and get the audio out of one PC into the other PC for DRC? Seems like you would have to have a high end digital out card in the first PC which was capable of 5.1 digital outputs? Firewire seems to be a solution, but I don't see any software firewire "soundcards" which just let you bridge two computers together? Under linux there is some network enabled audio drivers so that you can play sound on one machine and have it come out on another - lots of potential problems, but see the Jack version which can even sync multiple machines to with a narrow margin. Perhaps there is something similar for Win32?
Also is there a way under windows to have spdif in from the DVD player and then decode it to DTS/Dolby etc and send it on to the convolver? There is nothing pre-written like this for Linux that I am aware of but it might be fairly easy to code up.
Just some ideas for stuff that I personally would like to read your answers to!
Good luck
Ed W
Edit: Why not also put in a link to this thread on your page?
What do you think about the EMU cards? No linux drivers, but seem like pretty decent cards for the money under windows? There are OSS drivers for the Lynx card, but no proper linux support. RME is supported under linux though (don't know if you want to mention that?)
Erm. Oh, you mention using 2 PCs. How would you put them together and get the audio out of one PC into the other PC for DRC? Seems like you would have to have a high end digital out card in the first PC which was capable of 5.1 digital outputs? Firewire seems to be a solution, but I don't see any software firewire "soundcards" which just let you bridge two computers together? Under linux there is some network enabled audio drivers so that you can play sound on one machine and have it come out on another - lots of potential problems, but see the Jack version which can even sync multiple machines to with a narrow margin. Perhaps there is something similar for Win32?
Also is there a way under windows to have spdif in from the DVD player and then decode it to DTS/Dolby etc and send it on to the convolver? There is nothing pre-written like this for Linux that I am aware of but it might be fairly easy to code up.
Just some ideas for stuff that I personally would like to read your answers to!
Good luck
Ed W
Edit: Why not also put in a link to this thread on your page?
ewildgoose said:
Hi Ed,
Its no where near finished, I just thought I'd let people know so they could read as I added material.
I'm not sure what I need to do in order to get the pictures up? Care to help me out here? I've got plenty I'd like to upload.
I'm really concentrating on the Console based route to DRC/XO. So I'd rather not confuse things even more with notes about Linux.
I may actually take out the reference to the two PC setup as its either pretty complicated, pretty expensive or sounds worse the a single machine. The only thing going for it is that its highly stable.
My own interpretation was:
RME HDSP 9652 in the main machine and an RME HDSP9632 in the dedicated PCXO. These were linked via ADAT and an Antelope Isochrone OCX masterclock sync'd the two cards together. Very expensive and a lot surplus but it did sound fantastic and pretty much preserved the signal as if it were a single machine.
There are also similar softwares that push audio over a TCP/IP network on Windows. Haven't tried any of them though.
AC3 filter does that but its buggy as hell and I personally wouldn't touch it at all. I experimented with outputting SPDIF from TheaterTek and then routing it through Console and into the AC3filter plugin. It worked but the quality was inferior to the Nvidia AC3 filters that TheaterTek uses as standard and it kept losing sync with the video despite an abundance of CPU power.
Thanks and will do.
Hey, please get some pics up. I'd love to finally see your listening area and the rest of your equipment.
m0tion said:
Hi Motion,
Its all a bit grey, dark and dingy - the room that is 😀 Its an AV room with a projector so its like that to help with the mood of the room.
I'll get some pictures up soon enough but I'm concentrating on the guide first.
Also I've got very little in the way of equipment, a Themescene H79 DLP projector, a PC and an Apogee DA16x is about your lot. The AKSA amps are all hidden away in the bases of the Perceive 2's, oh and a couple of M&K surrounds(soon to be changed to ATC SCM7's). I don't even have a sub at the moment so it may something of an anti climax.
Had an interesting encounter today.
A friend has just bought an RME Fireface 800 interface for his HTPC setup - despite me screaming Lynx TWO at him for nearly a two weeks now 😀 Anyway my friend was curious just how much of difference there was between my setup and the much cheaper RME fireface so we set about setting it up in my system whilst I also showed him how to setup the Fireface and DRC software. Personally I thought the comparison would have been a walkover since I've owned RME internal soundcards in the past and IMO the Lynx+Apogee solution was noticably superior but how wrong I was!
I've known about the Fireface for awhile but I had no idea just how flexible and feature packed it really is. Just off the top of my head, it had 4 mic pre amps which were no doubt stunning in quality when we messed around with capturing impulse responses because the noise level was even lower than my own setup. 10 analogue outs and 16 inputs as standard. And this is what really shocked me, I've spent a great deal of money on my Lynx TWO B and Apogee DA16x setup but the convertors and clocking in the Fireface are simply awesome for the money, I'd say it was virtually identical to my setup and I *really* tried hard to discern a difference but it just wasn't there much to my disappointment considering how much I'd spent on my setup 🙁
I wanted to try it with the Apogee doing the master clock and conversion to see if things improved even more but sadly we'd already been playing for over 5 hours 😉
Overall for around £1000 its the best deal I've ever seen - it probably rivals my Lynx/Apogee setup for sound quality and has plenty of other stuff that I'm I'm simply missing ie. great quality mic pre's, plenty analogue inputs(something I'm sadly missing)and the potential for upgradability(apparently you can rig 3 of these up!).
One downside I did note was that it doesn't have 192Khz capable DAC's. So my setup is better there, although its not something that I've ever used with current software - it likely to be important in the future though.
I'm still a bit shocked by it all and I'd really have liked to have spent more time with it in my system to get a better idea of all the features and sound but from what I've used/heard so far its a no brainer IMO for an economically high end setup.
A friend has just bought an RME Fireface 800 interface for his HTPC setup - despite me screaming Lynx TWO at him for nearly a two weeks now 😀 Anyway my friend was curious just how much of difference there was between my setup and the much cheaper RME fireface so we set about setting it up in my system whilst I also showed him how to setup the Fireface and DRC software. Personally I thought the comparison would have been a walkover since I've owned RME internal soundcards in the past and IMO the Lynx+Apogee solution was noticably superior but how wrong I was!
I've known about the Fireface for awhile but I had no idea just how flexible and feature packed it really is. Just off the top of my head, it had 4 mic pre amps which were no doubt stunning in quality when we messed around with capturing impulse responses because the noise level was even lower than my own setup. 10 analogue outs and 16 inputs as standard. And this is what really shocked me, I've spent a great deal of money on my Lynx TWO B and Apogee DA16x setup but the convertors and clocking in the Fireface are simply awesome for the money, I'd say it was virtually identical to my setup and I *really* tried hard to discern a difference but it just wasn't there much to my disappointment considering how much I'd spent on my setup 🙁
I wanted to try it with the Apogee doing the master clock and conversion to see if things improved even more but sadly we'd already been playing for over 5 hours 😉
Overall for around £1000 its the best deal I've ever seen - it probably rivals my Lynx/Apogee setup for sound quality and has plenty of other stuff that I'm I'm simply missing ie. great quality mic pre's, plenty analogue inputs(something I'm sadly missing)and the potential for upgradability(apparently you can rig 3 of these up!).
One downside I did note was that it doesn't have 192Khz capable DAC's. So my setup is better there, although its not something that I've ever used with current software - it likely to be important in the future though.
I'm still a bit shocked by it all and I'd really have liked to have spent more time with it in my system to get a better idea of all the features and sound but from what I've used/heard so far its a no brainer IMO for an economically high end setup.
ShinOBIWAN said:
I'm fairly sure they are 192Khz capable? Perhaps there was some config issue though?
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/firewire/ff800.htm
Great review though. Sadly there are no linux drivers for the FF either, and rumour has it that RME are blocking attempts to create one. Sad really
Ed
rme FF800 dac's can do 192khz . they use AKM Ak4396 dac chips , those are 192 khz compatible . i did some modifications on FF800 for friend . But if you wanna hear my personal opinion - there is no sigma delta DAC units on the market which can play in same league like good multibit paralel DAC's - AD1862 , PCM 1704 or PCM63 , and there is no really good integrated clocking units on the market (at least at reasonable price) .just my 2 cents .
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