A sign of distortion? But not the kindwe measure. I have heard some pretty bad HE speakers. It is not a panacea.
dave
It could also be attributed to dynamic changes in the T/S parameters. A ported box is more often than not out of tune turned up that high.
dave
A range of levels is needed. Even with 20 dB peaks i am rarely listening at those levels, so a value at that level is mostly irrelevant.
Knowing when a speaker goes over the edge is important.
dave
I think the reason for measuring at 96dB is because it represents an 'on the high side' average volume that would also encompass the peaks on dynamic material for most peoples average (read 75dB or so) listening levels.
There is certainly no harm in using a driver that excels at 96dB at 70dB. Drivers don't suddenly become less linear as you turn the volume down.
The other reason for picking something like 96dB is because it isn't a mile away from a realistic volume that you'd want a driver to be able to reproduce well in a domestic environment. The object of the measurement isn't to go getting uppity about the absolute level of distortion (unless it's gross), but because it would be used as a tool to display trends and otherwise 'issues' in the way the driver operates. This would be especially useful in showing you how low you could cross tweeters, how high you could realistically cross a metal cone driver, if any resonances that appear in the impedance plot actually manage to find their way into the distortion plot and whether or not a drivers motor linearising techniques are actually effective at preventing the HD from rising with frequency.
There is certainly no harm in using a driver that excels at 96dB at 70dB. Drivers don't suddenly become less linear as you turn the volume down.
The other reason for picking something like 96dB is because it isn't a mile away from a realistic volume that you'd want a driver to be able to reproduce well in a domestic environment. The object of the measurement isn't to go getting uppity about the absolute level of distortion (unless it's gross), but because it would be used as a tool to display trends and otherwise 'issues' in the way the driver operates. This would be especially useful in showing you how low you could cross tweeters, how high you could realistically cross a metal cone driver, if any resonances that appear in the impedance plot actually manage to find their way into the distortion plot and whether or not a drivers motor linearising techniques are actually effective at preventing the HD from rising with frequency.
I would question that, gino - I'm as far away from being a 'basspig' as anyone, I haven't heard a driver larger than 8" in my house in years - several nights ago I visited a setup which had fully equalised, 'monster', well made dual subwoofers - and the sound was perfectly normal ... meaning, it sounded right to my ears in the bass area, there was no stupid bass note walloping going on, the subwoofers were "invisible".
So, and not having anything like that myself, I don't feel I'm missing anything by the absence of big mutha' speakers ... 😉
Hello and thanks for the valuable reply.
I see your point. Not to get obsessed by performance.
Still i wonder if going for speakers designed to be used at higher SPLs could be a good move.
I understand that i would need only maybe 95-100 dB as a maximum in my listening position at 3 meters from the speakers
But a speaker able to give 115dB little distorted should be a better option than a Kef ls50, to name one. That is my point.
I remember for instance old Celestion DL 10 having a really outstanding MOL. So it is not an unique quality of only expensive speakers.
As long as they have the right drivers.
Small drivers are really cute ... but limited by nature.
Thanks and regards,
gino
Okay, but just remember that it is only the low bass that benefits from large surface area to the cone - the real work, the heart of the music is done by the small midrange amd tweeter units... if you remove the midrange, or tweeter from the speaker the sound will essentially collapse or turn into lo-fi - disconnecting the bass unit will almost not be noticed ...
And in those units small is good, the sound is dispersed with minimal nulling effects. Getting very high SPLs without distortion is all about the motor and suspension, not size - Morel does drivers that go to 120dB, sized about 4" I think ...
Visually, big is inspiring - but it really means nought if sound quality is what you're after ...
And in those units small is good, the sound is dispersed with minimal nulling effects. Getting very high SPLs without distortion is all about the motor and suspension, not size - Morel does drivers that go to 120dB, sized about 4" I think ...
Visually, big is inspiring - but it really means nought if sound quality is what you're after ...
Thank you for the reply and i agree completely.
But i would like to tell you one thing
I come from a long period of listening to minimonitors which i found cute and nice sounding, with good 3D abilities.
Then i had the opportunity to listen to a really full range set up ... OMG 😱
Let me say that i realized that listen to minimonitors was like listening to a radio in comparison. All body of the music completely lost ... not realistic at all. Only big speakers can be realistic.
Ok there is the subwoofer option ...
and this i agree and to be honest i am in the middle of a crisis.
I am not decided to go with a 2 ways or a 3 ways approach.
The 3 ways would allow me to clean up the midrange driver sending the low bass to a dedicated woofer like in the Celestion DL10 that for me are the perfect 3 ways with conventional drivers of course. In this case a xover freq of around 150Hz between woofer and midrange could be the best option.
I am concerned to ask to the same driver to reproduce 50 and let's say 200 Hz ... especially at high SPLs. I am sure some IMD would show up.
Still i see the Tannoy DC ... they have only 2 ways and sound fine to me.
I like the Dual Concentric concept ... very very much.
Thanks a lot and kind regards,
gino
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Full range setup ? Still wrapped under these definitions ?
Uhm, sorry...maybe you mean 20-20000 Hz plus minus 3 dB at the extremes of audio band ? Oh, incidentally that is the same bandwidth of humans !
edit: of young fellows, with age the ability of recognizing the very high frequencies drops
Uhm, sorry...maybe you mean 20-20000 Hz plus minus 3 dB at the extremes of audio band ? Oh, incidentally that is the same bandwidth of humans !
edit: of young fellows, with age the ability of recognizing the very high frequencies drops
Hello 🙂 and you know what i mean 😀
just listen a well recorded drums on a minimonitor ... do you think this is realistic ? for me realism is the ONLY goal.
I want virtual reality in sound.
To listen to a really realistic sound when reproducing full rang instruments you need big speakers.
We can discuss the -3dB point ... but up to a point. Some instruments go very low in frequency with quite high SPLs.
If you listen only triangles and flutes ok ... but if you want to hear a Bach Toccata e fuga ... maybe with a little of so nice walls shaking ...
I know ... big speakers are a pain to set up in the room.
But they are the only way to get a realistic reproduction with all the instruments.
Thanks and regards,
gino
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Absolutely not true. Ok with IMD: 3 way is good to overcome that.
There are many things associated with "minuscule particles" moving then returning quiet.
First thing is: how sound is formed?
The last one is: how do we perceive sounds ?
And last but not least: is the sound ancillary to music or is the music ancillary to sound ?
There are many things associated with "minuscule particles" moving then returning quiet.
First thing is: how sound is formed?
The last one is: how do we perceive sounds ?
And last but not least: is the sound ancillary to music or is the music ancillary to sound ?
Hello, ok ... so your solution for speakers is ?
just to understand better, could you show a kind of speaker you like ?
As i said i am still undecided ... Tannoy use only two ways and sound nice
Thanks and regards,
gino
just to understand better, could you show a kind of speaker you like ?
As i said i am still undecided ... Tannoy use only two ways and sound nice
Thanks and regards,
gino
Please ... do not touch me coincident sources ! 😡😀
no really ... i have listened to different DC from Tannoy and when i sit in the sweet spot i perceived that there is something right.
Of course cabinet, x-over, amplifier are important ... but DC are fascinating to me. Actually i do not understand why this solution is more an exception than a rule.
It is just to have a magnet for the woofer with a hole inside where to place a tweeter ... not that big work.
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