For the past few weeks I've been searching information about what kind of elements to use in a multi-element subwoofer, and this thread keeps popping up. Each time with new replies 🙂
I'm thinking of a 4 pcs 10-12" driver array into relatively small sealed cabinets that I could stack on top each other. The idea is to compensate small cabinets with simply more drivers. The target SPL is 100 dB at 20 Hz without breaking a sweat (small excursion). If 4 isn't enough, 8.
I already once discarded Peerless P830845 as an option, because the datasheet displays such uneven frequency response at low frequencies. But @tktran303 measures smooth response, is that valid?
Another question. What kind of properties should a subwoofer driver have, when attempting to fit into a small cabinet? I have shortlist of drivers, but it's still quite long, because DSPing makes many things possible. Many drivers from SB Acoustics and Peerless simulate very well (95 dB, 20 Hz, <3 mm excursion), but for the same price I could get a PA driver. PA drivers always have way higher Fs, but are otherwise attractive. Can you give me any tips?
Price is also a factor when using so many drivers. For example GRS drivers were hopeless in simulation, but Scan-Speak and Accuton simulates almost like an ideal driver. But since the price is tenfold, not a good option. Peerless, SBA and many PA drivers seem to be within performance/price budget.
I'm thinking of a 4 pcs 10-12" driver array into relatively small sealed cabinets that I could stack on top each other. The idea is to compensate small cabinets with simply more drivers. The target SPL is 100 dB at 20 Hz without breaking a sweat (small excursion). If 4 isn't enough, 8.
I already once discarded Peerless P830845 as an option, because the datasheet displays such uneven frequency response at low frequencies. But @tktran303 measures smooth response, is that valid?
Another question. What kind of properties should a subwoofer driver have, when attempting to fit into a small cabinet? I have shortlist of drivers, but it's still quite long, because DSPing makes many things possible. Many drivers from SB Acoustics and Peerless simulate very well (95 dB, 20 Hz, <3 mm excursion), but for the same price I could get a PA driver. PA drivers always have way higher Fs, but are otherwise attractive. Can you give me any tips?
Price is also a factor when using so many drivers. For example GRS drivers were hopeless in simulation, but Scan-Speak and Accuton simulates almost like an ideal driver. But since the price is tenfold, not a good option. Peerless, SBA and many PA drivers seem to be within performance/price budget.
Don't trust peerless' data sheets at low frequencies. They are all a bit strange (room influence?).
Same with some SB data sheets, by the way!
I can't speak for all companies, but SB uses a standardised baffle for their tests, which does introduce some diffraction artifacts creating uneven response for low frequencies.
What's important to note is that it's the same for all their transducers, so you can compare them apples to apples. You can't compare them to other manufacturers tho (apples to oranges).
What's important to note is that it's the same for all their transducers, so you can compare them apples to apples. You can't compare them to other manufacturers tho (apples to oranges).
As of 2025,
the 12" 830845 of which is the title of this post, is still on the website:
https://www.products-peerless.com/en/transducer/207
I tested the 12" 835017 in post #31, the 10" version (835016) is still on the Peerless Audio website:
https://www.products-peerless.com/en/transducer/465
Many years ago Peerless adhered to a protocol called Peerless Standard for Acoustic Measurements (PSAM). Through numerous mergers first with Vifa-ScanSpeak (->Danish Sound Technology) and then acquisition by Tymphany, it's not clear WHEN they changed their measurement process.
But they clearly did, based on publised datasheets somewhere between 2009 and 2010.
Please see attached evidence of 2 drivers that were measured in different ways between 2002 and 2017...
the 12" 830845 of which is the title of this post, is still on the website:
https://www.products-peerless.com/en/transducer/207
I tested the 12" 835017 in post #31, the 10" version (835016) is still on the Peerless Audio website:
https://www.products-peerless.com/en/transducer/465
Many years ago Peerless adhered to a protocol called Peerless Standard for Acoustic Measurements (PSAM). Through numerous mergers first with Vifa-ScanSpeak (->Danish Sound Technology) and then acquisition by Tymphany, it's not clear WHEN they changed their measurement process.
But they clearly did, based on publised datasheets somewhere between 2009 and 2010.
Please see attached evidence of 2 drivers that were measured in different ways between 2002 and 2017...
@JukkaM
For subwoofer-ing, everything is volume displacement limited. By that I mean how much air the system can move.
As you may have noticed, the more LF producing elements, the louder things can go. So a tapped horn or bandpass cabinet is more efficient than a bass reflect or sealed box, which is more efficient than a dipole. Whether it sounds “better” or not is affected by many things. If listening to recorded music is the goal, the circle of confusion one of them IMHO.
Rather than choose multiple 10-12 inch drivers, do you have space for a a baffle that may accomodate a 18” woofer?
For subwoofer-ing, everything is volume displacement limited. By that I mean how much air the system can move.
As you may have noticed, the more LF producing elements, the louder things can go. So a tapped horn or bandpass cabinet is more efficient than a bass reflect or sealed box, which is more efficient than a dipole. Whether it sounds “better” or not is affected by many things. If listening to recorded music is the goal, the circle of confusion one of them IMHO.
Rather than choose multiple 10-12 inch drivers, do you have space for a a baffle that may accomodate a 18” woofer?
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https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/br.../speaker-faitalpro-10fe330-8-ohm-10-inch.html
30L closed/driver, even smaller high passed, good price no nonsense
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/br.../speaker-faitalpro-12fe330-8-ohm-12-inch.html
Needs bigger box though
30L closed/driver, even smaller high passed, good price no nonsense
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/br.../speaker-faitalpro-12fe330-8-ohm-12-inch.html
Needs bigger box though
They don't seem to me to be the typical subwoofer drivers with their - conservatively calculated - 5.65 mm Xmax. Both look more like bass-midrange speakers.
@tktran303
My requirements for size are: no big single box, but multiple small ones are good for transferring. A cabinet that can accommodate two 12" elements in less than optimal volume is my current target.
If one can fit a 15" or 18" in similar space with similar performance and price, I'm open to that. One 18" has more Sd than two 12", but demands a much larger cabinet, and one 15" has less Sd, so I thought two 12" gives a good compromise. The room has plenty of space, especially upwards.
Simulation of four 12" drivers wired in series or 2||2 in 80 liter sealed cabinet shows that one can get ~105 dB at 20 Hz from most high xmax PA subwoofer drivers with 200-400 Watts with DSP (like FaitalPro 12RS430 or BMS 12S305). These parameters are acceptable because it scales up and down by increments of 2 drivers and allows nice headroom (allows lower xmax if using more drivers). I will need to try this with 15" and 18" and see how cabinet sizes change for similar performance. Ported cabs would require way to large volume for a low tuning point.
There are so many options when allowing PA drivers that I'm swamped in going through different options, so nothing is set in stone yet. It would help if I knew what to look at in a drivers specsheet. Also drivers with known low distortion would be preferable.
My requirements for size are: no big single box, but multiple small ones are good for transferring. A cabinet that can accommodate two 12" elements in less than optimal volume is my current target.
If one can fit a 15" or 18" in similar space with similar performance and price, I'm open to that. One 18" has more Sd than two 12", but demands a much larger cabinet, and one 15" has less Sd, so I thought two 12" gives a good compromise. The room has plenty of space, especially upwards.
Simulation of four 12" drivers wired in series or 2||2 in 80 liter sealed cabinet shows that one can get ~105 dB at 20 Hz from most high xmax PA subwoofer drivers with 200-400 Watts with DSP (like FaitalPro 12RS430 or BMS 12S305). These parameters are acceptable because it scales up and down by increments of 2 drivers and allows nice headroom (allows lower xmax if using more drivers). I will need to try this with 15" and 18" and see how cabinet sizes change for similar performance. Ported cabs would require way to large volume for a low tuning point.
There are so many options when allowing PA drivers that I'm swamped in going through different options, so nothing is set in stone yet. It would help if I knew what to look at in a drivers specsheet. Also drivers with known low distortion would be preferable.
PS. Both TH and BP cabs for 20 Hz seem to be too big, but I haven't simulated them with all drivers, so I cannot tell what kind of drivers would excel in that. Or if a TH can be built into many small pieces that can be easily disassembled and assembled.
The BMS12S05 appears to be a good woofer with 3 demodulation rings in the ferrite motor, healthy 11mm excursion and big enough spider and surround to support it.
Here's 4x BMS12S05 in series parallel in 80L sealed
... vs 1x SAN18.403 in 80L
You have a 3dB advantage at 20Hz with 4 twelves.
The SAN18.403 has a neo motor with a single alu demodulation ring.
But a €600 advantage and weight advantage of of 15kg (1x11kg vs 4x7kg)
Do you have ability to EQ?
If so, consider starting off the the lighter cheaper variant and see if it's enough for you...
Here's 4x BMS12S05 in series parallel in 80L sealed
... vs 1x SAN18.403 in 80L
You have a 3dB advantage at 20Hz with 4 twelves.
The SAN18.403 has a neo motor with a single alu demodulation ring.
But a €600 advantage and weight advantage of of 15kg (1x11kg vs 4x7kg)
Do you have ability to EQ?
If so, consider starting off the the lighter cheaper variant and see if it's enough for you...
Yes, there is a DSP for crossover and equalization. I might have also miscalculated the space for four 12" drivers. The minimum space that can have two 12" drivers side by side comes closer to 60 liters, or 120 liters for four, so that will affect their sensitivity and power requirements.
My point in over-engineering the total capacity aims for low used xmax which should contribute for lower distortion. This is one reason why I'm looking at multiple element approach.
My main 3-way speakers have 15" for woofer, so a subwoofer that just outperforms that will need to be large.
My point in over-engineering the total capacity aims for low used xmax which should contribute for lower distortion. This is one reason why I'm looking at multiple element approach.
My main 3-way speakers have 15" for woofer, so a subwoofer that just outperforms that will need to be large.