Lets say down to 30Hz, capable of 120db peak at listening position (10') in a 30'x50' room.
8x DCS450-4 (or equiv) vs 1 othorn (or equiv)
Whats a better way to go? For similar amount of money. If space doesn't matter.
Or 16 of these, is $500:
GRS 15PF-8 15" Paper Cone Foam Surround Woofer
Lets throw this in the mix too, 30 of them ($300) sealed would be about 100 db 1w/m? Same as the horn, at half the capital investment, but takes up alot more space.
Titan 10" Purple Glitter Cone Yellow Surround Speckled Gasket Woofer 4 Ohm
If you have a house with no space restrictions, is direct radiator always a better solution for the money? can alot of cheap subs together produce as good or better bass as a $700 driver in a complex alignment?
8x DCS450-4 (or equiv) vs 1 othorn (or equiv)
Whats a better way to go? For similar amount of money. If space doesn't matter.
Or 16 of these, is $500:
GRS 15PF-8 15" Paper Cone Foam Surround Woofer
Lets throw this in the mix too, 30 of them ($300) sealed would be about 100 db 1w/m? Same as the horn, at half the capital investment, but takes up alot more space.
Titan 10" Purple Glitter Cone Yellow Surround Speckled Gasket Woofer 4 Ohm
If you have a house with no space restrictions, is direct radiator always a better solution for the money? can alot of cheap subs together produce as good or better bass as a $700 driver in a complex alignment?
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with any of the cheap direct radiators you mentioned, you'd probably end up running them isobaric just to have boxes that could fit in your room
8 of the Dayton 18s are better part of $1k so not sure if that is equivalent to an othorn prisewise, but id likely go that route. if box size an issue id step down to 4 of the reference series 18s
8 of the Dayton 18s are better part of $1k so not sure if that is equivalent to an othorn prisewise, but id likely go that route. if box size an issue id step down to 4 of the reference series 18s
Its not hard to build large volumes into couches and coffee tables and islands and cabinets, risers etc - if you get to design your space from scratch. I guess cheap drivers makes sense if space isn't the problem. but I wonder if the quality of the bass, in terms of freq resp and phase, group delay, etc. would be better with the high end driver in a complex cabinet.
those cheap high-Q low power woofers would probably be better used open baffle / SLOB/ IB/manifold than sealed box. I don't like foam surrounds although some last for awhile. A couple of BFM's THT made wide might be an option for a big room at reasonable driver cost.
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Much better to have multiple subwoofer spead around the room than 2 horns in some "so called optimum" position into the room.
room acoustic dominate below 100hz and the more subs, the better.
I have 6x 18" myself and plan on going to 8. Used to be IB mounted but now restricted to sealed config.
I remember one lesson learn years ago when I heard line array with 9x $100 driver per side completely destroy my $3000 lowther in OB playing approx same range (~200-3khz)
I would go multiple 15" or 18".
avoid the 10".
I have 4x 12" subs collecting dust...
room acoustic dominate below 100hz and the more subs, the better.
I have 6x 18" myself and plan on going to 8. Used to be IB mounted but now restricted to sealed config.
I remember one lesson learn years ago when I heard line array with 9x $100 driver per side completely destroy my $3000 lowther in OB playing approx same range (~200-3khz)
I would go multiple 15" or 18".
avoid the 10".
I have 4x 12" subs collecting dust...
16 15" woofers for a 30' x 50' room?
Here's an idea. Decide which wall in that room you don't like. Knock down said wall and replace it with a sturdy baffle holding all 16 of those woofers. Enjoy infinite baffle bass.
Don't do this if the wall in question is an external wall.
Here's an idea. Decide which wall in that room you don't like. Knock down said wall and replace it with a sturdy baffle holding all 16 of those woofers. Enjoy infinite baffle bass.
Don't do this if the wall in question is an external wall.
is IB bass really better than everything else? why is that?
wouldnt the same set of drivers in ported boxes have higher output?
Theres a garage under the floor.....
wouldnt the same set of drivers in ported boxes have higher output?
Theres a garage under the floor.....
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In practice sound waves ftom adjacent woofers will interfere with the other subs cones thus dictsting their ptogram rather tham coupling the bass. Furthermore the noise generated in each woofer for a given position in this arrangement would be different, therefore just one amplifier alone probably cannot not hold for such distortion and you have to choose which side or outside of your basement you pretend to catch on fire one day.
If you want to have 120dB at the listening position in a domestic environment, I'd have two 15"s directly behind the listening seat.
This approach solves many problems in one go. You'll get flatter frequency response, lower distortion, lower power and driver requirements, less bass leakage and less problems with damaged gyprock and falling stuff (I'm serious, been there done that). You can reduce bass leakage even more by using dipole subwoofers behind the listening position. Four high excursion 15"s will get the job done.
This approach solves many problems in one go. You'll get flatter frequency response, lower distortion, lower power and driver requirements, less bass leakage and less problems with damaged gyprock and falling stuff (I'm serious, been there done that). You can reduce bass leakage even more by using dipole subwoofers behind the listening position. Four high excursion 15"s will get the job done.
IB bass is exceptionally efficient at very low frequencies - there's no cabinet trying to hold the cones still.
That means you don't need much power to use up the available excursion on the drivers. It also means any motor-based distortion is dramatically reduced compared to a small sealed box.
Chris
Fan with variable blades in the attic, it's hard on the drywall screws.
I am not an expert in anything here. But I can see issues very well with so many woofers.
At the lowest frequency you basically pressurize the whole room. The more drivers pull and push at the same time at 20hz the harder it is to move the cone because each adjacent woofer has to work harder to pressurize the air around it, so you gain only maybe 1 to 1.5 db or none by placing multiple drivers.
This is only the tip of the iceberg: the drivers have actually an easier time moving with less compression at higher frequency.
So the effect of doubling the woofers is a tilt in the frequency response toward the higher frequency and a dip in the bass. This augment noise, distortion and requires bigger filters, jeopardizing bass response.
The driver itself is very low sensitivity and doesn't look like a SUB-woofer which is what you want here, not 1kz , not 4 kHz, only 20 - 500 hz max
4 mm of xmas is very poor combined to this... I would look at higher sub-woofer with more xmas, better sensitivity.
I am not an expert in anything here. But I can see issues very well with so many woofers.
At the lowest frequency you basically pressurize the whole room. The more drivers pull and push at the same time at 20hz the harder it is to move the cone because each adjacent woofer has to work harder to pressurize the air around it, so you gain only maybe 1 to 1.5 db or none by placing multiple drivers.
This is only the tip of the iceberg: the drivers have actually an easier time moving with less compression at higher frequency.
So the effect of doubling the woofers is a tilt in the frequency response toward the higher frequency and a dip in the bass. This augment noise, distortion and requires bigger filters, jeopardizing bass response.
The driver itself is very low sensitivity and doesn't look like a SUB-woofer which is what you want here, not 1kz , not 4 kHz, only 20 - 500 hz max
4 mm of xmas is very poor combined to this... I would look at higher sub-woofer with more xmas, better sensitivity.
21SW152 - 21" EXTREME POWER WOOFER
active XO , 4x like this with 6000 watts can probably give you 120 Db in your seating position at 30 hz.
active XO , 4x like this with 6000 watts can probably give you 120 Db in your seating position at 30 hz.
Sorry, but I think you have a lot more learning to do.
- When you add more drivers, so long as they're within 1/4 wavelength (and therefore not cancelling each other), you'll get an SPL increase. Since low-frequency wavelengths are very large, you'll find that the really big subwoofer arrays actually get bass-heavy, as they're no longer combining constructively at 100Hz, but they still are at 30Hz.
- When you double the number of drivers and increase the power levels accordingly, you gain 6dB while they're within 1/4 wavelength of each other.
- I'm not sure where you've got this "compression" idea from, but it ain't right. The pressure variations we're talking about are tiny - the drivers won't each have to work harder to pressurise the air, because we're talking about pressure variations of the order of 1-10Pa, while atmospheric pressure is 100,000Pa.
Chris
GRS-15 FP
Sensitivity in dB per 1 watt and 1 meter 87 -6db loss = 81 dB/W/m
Amplifier power of each loudspeaker 150 RMS watts
400 boxes of roughly 100 liters, with reflex port.
Number of loudspeakers 400 pieces
Distance to loudspeakers 3 meters
Generated sound pressure level around* 120 dB
with the 21" thing I calculated:
Sensitivity in dB per 1 watt and 1 meter 96-6 = 90 dB/W/m
4 boxes of : 6.7 cu. ft. / 190 Liters
Port Size 24" wide x 2.0" height x 19.75" deep
Amplifier power of each loudspeaker 2000 watts
Number of loudspeakers 4 pieces
Distance to loudspeakers 3 meters
Power level around 120Db
Sensitivity in dB per 1 watt and 1 meter 87 -6db loss = 81 dB/W/m
Amplifier power of each loudspeaker 150 RMS watts
400 boxes of roughly 100 liters, with reflex port.
Number of loudspeakers 400 pieces
Distance to loudspeakers 3 meters
Generated sound pressure level around* 120 dB
with the 21" thing I calculated:
Sensitivity in dB per 1 watt and 1 meter 96-6 = 90 dB/W/m
4 boxes of : 6.7 cu. ft. / 190 Liters
Port Size 24" wide x 2.0" height x 19.75" deep
Amplifier power of each loudspeaker 2000 watts
Number of loudspeakers 4 pieces
Distance to loudspeakers 3 meters
Power level around 120Db
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