737 Max

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Where I live gets Welsh TV. A quirk of my TV is it mistakes Welsh TV as the prime. As 95% is the same as local TV I leave it like that. Dorset has regional TV whereas Welsh TV is definitely a country. I have become very interested in Welsh issues. I also find BBC Wales a better service. More old school professional. It's a freak situation as the transmitter is 50 miles away. We are high up overlooking the Somerset levels so get a 10 mile boost. I also have an aerial distribution amplifier which helps. DIY profile say Oxfordshire. Not since September 16.

The interconnected nature of the aerospace industry needs Boeing and Wales needs it's share. House prices are 30% of Dorset and 20% of Oxfordshire. If you go to north Wales don't make the mistake of thinking the people unfriendly. Often it's just English is their second language and it takes thought. Like me speaking French. I struggle.
 
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Ha ha; my wife is Welsh. Once when visiting Wales we went up Snowdonia way and pulled into a Little Chef for a late evening snack. We were surprised (and delighted) to find everyone was speaking Welsh...unfortunately her Welsh is a little rusty. They changed to English to serve us though...
 

PRR

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Airbus ...employ 14000 people ...... Boeing employ 2500.

I was startled to learn that Sopwith, despite subcontractors, grew to 6,000 employees by the Armistice.

You could smash-up all the Sopwiths ever made and pack them into one JumboJet. (OK, you might need two.)

It always feels as if Airbus is state run .Boeing must at times feel .............

By WWI, airplane companies were already whip-lashed by national policy. The US forced Wright and Curtiss to patent-pool so there would be no surprises when the government bought airplanes. Sopwith had stepped-up production massively but when the war ended they were hit for £1mill excess profits duty. Also both governments over-bought and dumped the surplus at nearly penny on the dollar (whatever that is in £), killing civilian sales for years.

Obviously it is better for the state to use budget and regulation to manipulate the industry than to actually RUN it themselves and suffer the blame.
 
We have a local airfield Compton Abbis. Often Tiger Moths fly over. It reminds me of Kidlington airport when I was young. The Moth looks like a Sopwith. I have requested a go in a Moth. I am told that the stall speed is very low. You know 130 mph as a top speed isn't so bad. To be able to fly at nearly 30 mph is great. I always fancied a modern Moth with optional cockpit and small turboprop. The cockpit much like a hardtop. We had a Vampire jet at college. I am told it was a dream to fly. US aircraft also used a similar layout. De Havaland even built their own engine for that!

To remind everyone the debate is were Boeing pressurised by Airbus being better funded. What amounts to state aid. Doubtless Boeing gets a few bones thrown it's way. These other discussion are to build a picture of the how and the why. Problems often have complex causation.
 

6L6

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One possibility we have to fear is Greta Thunberg and troop might decide aircraft need to be sacrificed. Whilst it wouldn't be their decision it wouldn't help. To them a wounded big bad wolf an irresistible target.

ROTFLMAO!! :rofl: :rofl: (not at you, but the idea in general)

Shall we use Canoes and rollerskates instead?

At any time, 24hr/day, 365days/year there are about 1,000,000 people airborne on an airplane somewhere in the world. About 6 million people travel on an airliner every day. Aviation directly employs more than 10 million people, and is estimated to indirectly employ around 60 million.(tourism, etc...)

Not really a big bad wolf, but an inescapable, important, and necessary part of a functioning worldwide community and economy.
 
Pretty interesting stats, and so, until Elon Musk or whom ever invents a foolproof Star Trek transporter or hyperloop shuttle, I guess we’ll be relying on planes of some description - isnt some of that high speed airborne tubing now of composite materials?

Actually, imagine a transporter that could simultaneously retrogress the aging process and reset us all back to what we imagined as our most perfect selves.

Nigel, since you presume to know exactly what Greta et al have specifically in mind as solutions for the mess their generation has inherited, can we assume your crystal ball is clear enough to also offer investment advice - i.e. who should we be shorting - Boeing, Airbus, Ford, or Tesla? ;)
 
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Jim - not that a black box can ever prevent an accident that’s already happened, any thoughts on mandating them for all commercial rotary wing craft as well? Of course, I guess there’s no cure for “get there-it-is”, and if you can’t actually see the terrain, even the most experienced operator can manage a controlled flight into it.
 
As best I know and is denied the Max is impossible to control if everything goes wrong. The truth will come out. My father had a blameless driving record. Then one day he span out of control. No one was hurt. We never got to the facts about how it happened. The garage said nothing wrong. My dad said the car felt different after it's examination. Was it him? Was it the car? Did the garage tell the truth? Not black ice. As I said before the pilot always gets the blame. By going wrong I mean sensors malfunctioning.
 
I remember something like that was mentioned much earlier in this thread in connection with the flight that was saved due to a third pilot being present ie the manual trim wheels required the force of two men to turn which was not reflected in the simulator where one guy could use them easily.

I'm not digging it out again though...
 
Here is an example of where people have lost commonsense. The hard shoulder has been recomended as an extra lane on motorways. When I heard this I thought it was a joke as one of the more understandable accidents is someone mistaking a brokendown car as traffic. This is why people are told to get out of the car. One idiot/expert said to paraphrase " Modern cars never brakedown, they limp often for miles". He did actually say that. Burst tyre, broken drive shaft, cambelt. This is a strange culture. So many people think the safety culture means they are safe. Not from idiots.
 
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The smart motorway thing in the UK is a joke.

Here’s a useless fact: for drivers that break down on the hard shoulder and remain in their cars, the average time to get rear ended is 11 minutes.

(Note the stat is only looking at those individuals that remain in their cars, not the vast majority who do as they’ve been taught and get behind the safety barrier and preferably up the embankment).
 
In 1880 average journey times on the railway were about like today. Britains railways don't lend themselves to greater speed. Not so much inefficiency as topography. The improvements were to safety. Reduced working hours. Linked braking systems. Electric signalling and a token system giving permission to enter a line. All very simple and very effective. Interlocking signals that prevented wrong signal combinations also. I wonder if the computer generation has lost hands on reality when designing safe systems. At work I refused to sign my contract. It made me the fall guy. My solicitor said better to walk out if forced. I was incredibly unpopular doing this. That made me doubly convinced. None the less that is no excuse to do less than my best. Railways are starting to get faster. Hopefully safety will be as good or better. I recently travelled at mostly 100 mph Oxford to Marylebone on what is a commuter train. The Mallard couldn't do that day in day out. The TGV is purpose built, this one less engineered. It seemed fine.
 
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