I didn't realize the Twin Reverb was solid state. I've never played one, but I love the sound.
But I realized last night that I had lied. The amp I currently have is solid state rectified. It's got a little silicon diode doing half-wave rectification. Although this amp still needs some work and so it's not exactly a model of great tone at the moment (it can achieve betterness with a bit of work, though)
But most of the amps you've listed aren't my favorite amps (the Twin Reverb being the only exception). I wonder if that's why. The Hot Rod DeVille is okay, but there are other Fender amps that I prefer. Not a big fan of Peavey amps and I tend to prefer older Fender amps. Not as big a fan of Marshall or Orange.
But I stand corrected. I have played at least one solid state rectified amp and possibly more, without realizing it at the time.
I'll go try a few and see what I think. From a work-involved point of view, SS rectification is definitely less work (one less tube) and cheaper. Thanks for opening my eyes.
But I realized last night that I had lied. The amp I currently have is solid state rectified. It's got a little silicon diode doing half-wave rectification. Although this amp still needs some work and so it's not exactly a model of great tone at the moment (it can achieve betterness with a bit of work, though)
But most of the amps you've listed aren't my favorite amps (the Twin Reverb being the only exception). I wonder if that's why. The Hot Rod DeVille is okay, but there are other Fender amps that I prefer. Not a big fan of Peavey amps and I tend to prefer older Fender amps. Not as big a fan of Marshall or Orange.
But I stand corrected. I have played at least one solid state rectified amp and possibly more, without realizing it at the time.
I'll go try a few and see what I think. From a work-involved point of view, SS rectification is definitely less work (one less tube) and cheaper. Thanks for opening my eyes.
It sounds like you enjoy the sound of power supply sag as opposed to the tighter response of SS rectifiers. Many of us do. It's all a matter of taste. That's what is so cool about tube amps. There are so many options. If you decide to go to a tube rectifier you also have the choice of using different tubes for more or less sag which also translates to higher B+ voltage.
In the 5 volt type, a 5Y3 is lowest voltage and most sag. Then the 5U4 is in between and the 5AR4 is least sag and highest voltage. Just as long as you don't exceed the data sheet ratings, you can sub any of these tubes in or out. Also, there is the 5R4 which I'm not as familiar with. I think it translates to a higher current with voltage close to a 5Y3, but I don't have the time to check right now. You can also buy a SS plug-in to go into the tube socket if you want SS. You just need to keep B+ voltage differences in mind. It will be highest with the SS adapter, so you can design for that voltage and go lower with the other tubes.
I'm not so sure there is as much choice in the 6 volt tubes. If you like the sound of sag and want more choices, you might want to consider the 5 volt rectifiers. Just a little food for thought. It depends on if you want more choices and more work or less of each.
In the 5 volt type, a 5Y3 is lowest voltage and most sag. Then the 5U4 is in between and the 5AR4 is least sag and highest voltage. Just as long as you don't exceed the data sheet ratings, you can sub any of these tubes in or out. Also, there is the 5R4 which I'm not as familiar with. I think it translates to a higher current with voltage close to a 5Y3, but I don't have the time to check right now. You can also buy a SS plug-in to go into the tube socket if you want SS. You just need to keep B+ voltage differences in mind. It will be highest with the SS adapter, so you can design for that voltage and go lower with the other tubes.
I'm not so sure there is as much choice in the 6 volt tubes. If you like the sound of sag and want more choices, you might want to consider the 5 volt rectifiers. Just a little food for thought. It depends on if you want more choices and more work or less of each.
You said "lowest voltage". Do you mean current handling? The voltage maxes for those tubes are all in the 1400-1550 range, aren't they?
You're right, there doesn't appear to be as many options in the 6V tubes. I came across this page. Only the 6AY3 and 6BY5GA seem to support more current than the EZ81. The 6AY3s are actually a good bit cheaper than the EZ81s (~$3 vs ~$10). Not that a single rectifier tube is going to break the bank or anything. They do use slightly more heater current, but well within the range of my transformer.
I don't think I want to go with anything with less current than the EZ81 offers. I don't think I'm going to have that much wiggle room.
You're right, there doesn't appear to be as many options in the 6V tubes. I came across this page. Only the 6AY3 and 6BY5GA seem to support more current than the EZ81. The 6AY3s are actually a good bit cheaper than the EZ81s (~$3 vs ~$10). Not that a single rectifier tube is going to break the bank or anything. They do use slightly more heater current, but well within the range of my transformer.
I don't think I want to go with anything with less current than the EZ81 offers. I don't think I'm going to have that much wiggle room.
I should have been more specific. A 5Y3 has the highest plate resistance, so it has lowest voltage output. If you look at the data sheet, it will tell you either plate resistance, voltage drop or both depending which sheet you are looking at. So by ohms law, if it has higher plate resistance, it will drop more voltage as current goes up. This is internal voltage drop, so there is less voltage output. As plate resistance goes down as in the 5U4 or 5AR4, there is less internal voltage drop so has a higher voltage output and less sag.
The data sheet also will tell you the current output each tube is capable of. The 5Y3 being the lowest at about 100mA. The tubes that have the highest plate resistance will have more sag because internal voltage drop goes up as the amp demands more current, so output voltage goes down.
The voltage ratings you refer to(1400-1500) is the peak inverse voltage rating which is something entirely different.
If you can find an RCA tube manual for download or find one on Amazon or ebay,there are pages at the beginning that explain how interpret much of the data.
As a comparison, the 5U4GB is capable of 275mA output, but it does draw 3A heater current. It drops around 20-30 volts where the 5Y3 will drop around 40-45 volts depending on current draw.
Here is a good reference for tube data. http://tubebooks.org/
The data sheet also will tell you the current output each tube is capable of. The 5Y3 being the lowest at about 100mA. The tubes that have the highest plate resistance will have more sag because internal voltage drop goes up as the amp demands more current, so output voltage goes down.
The voltage ratings you refer to(1400-1500) is the peak inverse voltage rating which is something entirely different.
If you can find an RCA tube manual for download or find one on Amazon or ebay,there are pages at the beginning that explain how interpret much of the data.
As a comparison, the 5U4GB is capable of 275mA output, but it does draw 3A heater current. It drops around 20-30 volts where the 5Y3 will drop around 40-45 volts depending on current draw.
Here is a good reference for tube data. http://tubebooks.org/
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I just did a search on the 6AY3 you mentioned because I has never heard of it. There is good reason, it is only a 1/2 wave rectifier. I would hope it is cheaper than a full wave. They are probably just trying to get rid of unpopular stock.
Also, the 6BY5GA uses an octal socket and the EZ81 is a 9-pin mini. None of these are interchangeable.
And you also need to keep in mind the pinouts. Just because some tubes do have the same socket, they might have different pinouts. That's the beauty of all those 5 volt tubes, same octal socket, same pinouts.
Also, the 6BY5GA uses an octal socket and the EZ81 is a 9-pin mini. None of these are interchangeable.
And you also need to keep in mind the pinouts. Just because some tubes do have the same socket, they might have different pinouts. That's the beauty of all those 5 volt tubes, same octal socket, same pinouts.
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The chassis that I'm planning on using (a '59 bassman chassis with the holes already cut out) will give me a choice of either an octal or 9-pin rectifier. It's probably going to depend on whether the power transformer I ultimately choose has a 5V tap or not. If I go with the Antek, it won't have a 5V tap, so I'll go with the EZ81. If I decide, for whatever reason, to go with another transformer, it'll probably have a 5V tap and I'll probably end up going with the 5AR4 that I already have (I'd have to buy the EZ81).
Hi guys please tell me if i'm wrong but.... I thought you only get rectifer sag on a push pull amp and not on a SE as it uses max current all the time.
Hadn't thought about that. It certainly makes sense. If that's the case, then there may be no reason not to go with silicon diodes... It definitely makes things a little easier.
Sorry about the bad info. Forgot about the SE output. But the 5Y3 WILL provide less continuous B+ than say a 5AR4. The internal voltage drop in the rectifier will still happen, just not a dynamic drop varying with load. The rectifier is still in series with the plate load.
So no, your amp will not sag. You can vary the B+ with different 5 volt tubes. And you still have the option of the SS plug-in adapter if you want.
So no, your amp will not sag. You can vary the B+ with different 5 volt tubes. And you still have the option of the SS plug-in adapter if you want.
Now see, you're toying with me... This is how I always get myself into trouble at work. I always pick the route that gives more flexibility at the cost of complexity and then I make things too complicated. Granted, this is a relatively small complication and it does add a nice bit of flexibility in both the varied B+ and the SS plug-ins. And with that I guess I'd be able to see very directly the difference between SS and tube rectification in an SE amp (assuming I can find a rectifier tube with a comparable voltage).
I'm not toying with you at all. This forum is about helping people and I made a mistake forgetting the SE output. Putting in a 5v rectifier allows for the most flexibility. You don't have to use any of the forum's ideas, You came to the forum for help and we gave it. Ultimately, the decision is yours.Changing 5 volt rectifier tubes is certainly not a complex undertaking. You still need to design for a rectifier whether 5 or 6 volt. 5 volt by far gives the most flexibility. I am still learning as are all of us and mistakes are bound to happen. I have yet to see anyone in this forum toying with anyone!
I was kidding... Sorry I should have put an emoticon in or something... I hear a voice in my head saying it as I'm typing, but I sometimes forget people don't hear the same voice when they're reading it.
I'm indecisive. I keep going back and forth... But you're absolutely right that doing the tube rectifier (5V) will give me a lot of flexibility.
I'm indecisive. I keep going back and forth... But you're absolutely right that doing the tube rectifier (5V) will give me a lot of flexibility.
And I absolutely do appreciate the advice. From you and everyone else! I've always learned a lot on this site. It's a fantastic source of knowledge.
You're absolutely right. I wish there was some way to express emotion as we type in the response. But unfortunately, it just comes down to a bunch of ones and zeroes. Those emoticons sure do help. I was thinking "is he serious about the toying thing"?
I joined this forum because there seemed to be a much higher sense of sincerity and less ego. Much more desire to really help. You are also right about there being some truly excellent sources of info.
I found it to be really helpful to do a lot of planning before any solder starts to be applied or any screws turned. There are just so many possibilities and I need to not have doubt when finally starting the actual build.
Thanks for setting things straight. Much appreciated!
I joined this forum because there seemed to be a much higher sense of sincerity and less ego. Much more desire to really help. You are also right about there being some truly excellent sources of info.
I found it to be really helpful to do a lot of planning before any solder starts to be applied or any screws turned. There are just so many possibilities and I need to not have doubt when finally starting the actual build.
Thanks for setting things straight. Much appreciated!
I'm the same way. I need to have an absolutely clear vision of what I'm going to do before I get started with something like this.
When I got my first tube amp, before I did anything with it I was taking pictures and asking questions on here before I touched anything. I drew out the schematic (not very well. I should definitely redo it because I know I could do it correctly now and it'd be a good one to add to the public domain) and got very comfortable with it in my head before I ever put a soldering iron to it.
So yeah, I'll work this one out on paper before I pull out the soldering iron. I'm going to get one of these generic turret boards from Mableaudio to do the circuit on, so I'm going to draw out the layout (like those great Fender amp layouts) so that I know exactly where every wire is going to go.
I've been busy this week, but I finally got some time last night to work on the design a bit more. Also, user gsmok has just added pentodes to his Triode (now Triode/Pentode) load line simulator, and I want to set up the parameters for the 6L6.
That's an awesome tool. I love it.
When I got my first tube amp, before I did anything with it I was taking pictures and asking questions on here before I touched anything. I drew out the schematic (not very well. I should definitely redo it because I know I could do it correctly now and it'd be a good one to add to the public domain) and got very comfortable with it in my head before I ever put a soldering iron to it.
So yeah, I'll work this one out on paper before I pull out the soldering iron. I'm going to get one of these generic turret boards from Mableaudio to do the circuit on, so I'm going to draw out the layout (like those great Fender amp layouts) so that I know exactly where every wire is going to go.
I've been busy this week, but I finally got some time last night to work on the design a bit more. Also, user gsmok has just added pentodes to his Triode (now Triode/Pentode) load line simulator, and I want to set up the parameters for the 6L6.
That's an awesome tool. I love it.
yes thats true and webber make plug in solid sate recitfiers that emulate the tube voltage drop too Weber Copper Cap Rectifiers
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