Steve, the JJ EL84 are also quite excellent. I've heard dark things about some of their other power tubes, which you seem to confirm.
By the way, anatech, I think I can prove my honesty and integrity if you or anyone else wishes to check out Audio Nervosa. After testing some loaned out Grover Ics, I recommendeded them more than once, even though I am a competitor.
Caveat: I do not own any Grover ICs and have no affiliation with Grover in any way. I received no compensation of any kind.
Hi Sy,
Maybe it is just a transition period? I hope so. Any news on the EI front? I heard they got bought out, but don't know if or when any tubes will be produced, or whether the plant will just be dismantled.
I would have figured JJ would have solved the G2 alignment problem in the KT88s, but this doesn't seem to have happened.
Caveat: I do not own any Grover ICs and have no affiliation with Grover in any way. I received no compensation of any kind.
Hi Sy,
Maybe it is just a transition period? I hope so. Any news on the EI front? I heard they got bought out, but don't know if or when any tubes will be produced, or whether the plant will just be dismantled.
I would have figured JJ would have solved the G2 alignment problem in the KT88s, but this doesn't seem to have happened.
Relax, Steve, no-one has questioned your honesty or integrity. I do question some of the factual assertions. As background, please be aware that Chris has over 20 years in the service business and did warranty work for several very well-known tube amp/preamp manufacturers. His comments come from practical experience with a very large variety of equipment. Merely stating that his comments are "hogwash" and that he has "demonstrate(d) no competence in the subject" does not make it so. Please stick to discussing the technical subject, not what you perceive as the shortcomings of others.
Regarding EI, there have been several posts here, I think from Jim McShane, about the factory status. To be honest, I just don't remember- for power tubes, I use other sources. You might want to do a forum search and see what pops up.
Regarding EI, there have been several posts here, I think from Jim McShane, about the factory status. To be honest, I just don't remember- for power tubes, I use other sources. You might want to do a forum search and see what pops up.
Hi Sy,
I think another test I performed years ago might shed some more light on the importance of high frequency response.
I was testing a phono stage and decided to see the relative sonic difference between -1db at 200khz and +-1db at 150khz. (I know, well above the cutter head response, f6 point.) Anyway it was relative.
The added capacitance was just a few pf. There was an immediate sonic change all the way down through the bass. Clear as a bell difference.
I am guessing here, but -1db at 150khz would be about -6db at 500khz. Correct me if I am wrong, or not accurate enough.
200khz -1db, about 670khz at -6db.
Anyway, I thought this might help to demonstrate the importance of high frequency response.
I see some ****, so I guess that is where I said hogwash? I see 45 is also next to 6H30.
I think another test I performed years ago might shed some more light on the importance of high frequency response.
I was testing a phono stage and decided to see the relative sonic difference between -1db at 200khz and +-1db at 150khz. (I know, well above the cutter head response, f6 point.) Anyway it was relative.
The added capacitance was just a few pf. There was an immediate sonic change all the way down through the bass. Clear as a bell difference.
I am guessing here, but -1db at 150khz would be about -6db at 500khz. Correct me if I am wrong, or not accurate enough.
200khz -1db, about 670khz at -6db.
Anyway, I thought this might help to demonstrate the importance of high frequency response.
I see some ****, so I guess that is where I said hogwash? I see 45 is also next to 6H30.
Re: Response
Posting on public forums, one never knows who is who. As far as you know, i may be nobody, but maybe I'm not. In either case, having posted the above not two paragraphs apart, as far as I am concerned, you have lost all credibility. i expect the reason should be obvious, but I wille xplain if asked. At my leisure, of course.
Positron said:
Posting on public forums, one never knows who is who. As far as you know, i may be nobody, but maybe I'm not. In either case, having posted the above not two paragraphs apart, as far as I am concerned, you have lost all credibility. i expect the reason should be obvious, but I wille xplain if asked. At my leisure, of course.
This may be off topic, and I hope that it is not taken the wrong way, but I truly enjoy how much I can learn from a thread wherein the audio titans are clashing: I appreciate the knowledge and experience that you all bring to subjects, and respect anyone that is willing to stand up for their beliefs.
sorry...I hope that wasn't creepy.
sorry...I hope that wasn't creepy.
Hi aletheian,
Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.
-Chris 😉
Are you fighting with someone? 😀
Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.
Err, maybe a little.
-Chris 😉
I think those classes of tubes have given all there is through the years in numerous circuits.
More musical performance awaits in larger currents as I recently saw with my triode 6V6 line preamp.
More musical performance awaits in larger currents as I recently saw with my triode 6V6 line preamp.
And a photo of one the beasts.
3 were built. A test platform with tube regulated PSU, a narrow wooden and perspex one (used to carry 6SN7s), and this one (mine) which used to carry 12AU7s. It is current sourced for heaters. One more to come. No one of my DIY mates cares for their 6SN7s anymore. This circuit dawned on me when I had some 6v6s but already had a more powerful amp. Use GT type for lowest microphonics and no self noises.
3 were built. A test platform with tube regulated PSU, a narrow wooden and perspex one (used to carry 6SN7s), and this one (mine) which used to carry 12AU7s. It is current sourced for heaters. One more to come. No one of my DIY mates cares for their 6SN7s anymore. This circuit dawned on me when I had some 6v6s but already had a more powerful amp. Use GT type for lowest microphonics and no self noises.
Attachments
Hi Salas,
Thank you. It looks simple to wire up and modify (play with). Your constructed preamp looks really nice! Good job.
What is your total current draw? I'm thinking that a 6CA4, or maybe one per channel might work out well. There is no sense in using a large rectifier if it isn't needed. Think of the power savings in heater current alone.
If you like bottles, stick a gas regulator in for each channel. Now that would look cool! It would also regulate your stage a little tighter. Not that you really need this.
-Chris 😉
Thank you. It looks simple to wire up and modify (play with). Your constructed preamp looks really nice! Good job.
What is your total current draw? I'm thinking that a 6CA4, or maybe one per channel might work out well. There is no sense in using a large rectifier if it isn't needed. Think of the power savings in heater current alone.
If you like bottles, stick a gas regulator in for each channel. Now that would look cool! It would also regulate your stage a little tighter. Not that you really need this.
-Chris 😉
Back to the original poster's inquiry: Based on personal listening experience as well as agreement among my fellow audiofile friends, the 6SN7 makes an excellent linestage (especially with CCS plate loads - I recommend a choke for the novice) while 6DJ8's are best left to phono stages.
If someone claims he can hear differences of 6mhz in amplifier bandwidth there is either something wrong with his hearing or he's wearing a tinfoil hat.
My polemic,
John
If someone claims he can hear differences of 6mhz in amplifier bandwidth there is either something wrong with his hearing or he's wearing a tinfoil hat.
My polemic,
John
Hi John,
I might agree with you, except that I have heard some really good line stages based on both the 6922 and 6SN7 (and a few more). There seems to be no clear winner in my mind as I think execution may be more important than the schematic some times. I can't say one way o the other.
Since the world is completely full of schematics for the 6922, our O.P. may be more comfortable going that way. It really depends on the circuit he wants to try.
No shortage of PC boards floating around either.
-Chris
I might agree with you, except that I have heard some really good line stages based on both the 6922 and 6SN7 (and a few more). There seems to be no clear winner in my mind as I think execution may be more important than the schematic some times. I can't say one way o the other.
Since the world is completely full of schematics for the 6922, our O.P. may be more comfortable going that way. It really depends on the circuit he wants to try.
No shortage of PC boards floating around either.
-Chris
anatech said:
About 45mA.
The big rectifier charges up big caps without choking and it sounds far more relaxed than small ones in this circuit. It has been chosen on performance grounds vs small bottles.
I avoided gas regulators bcs they have isotopes inside. You never know.
The power pentodes in triode mode,
could deliver a great sound, just like we have an example with 6V6...
Also the lower value for Rload could be applyed, because we have few volts of signal
at the input of pre-amplifier... Sometimes even lower than Ri of the tube, but with preserved low distorsion and dramaticaly increse of sound quality...
Pentodes in triode mode have a lower amplification factor up to 6, which can be accepted,
against 6922 tube with A=35 that overloads input of the amplifier hardly...
But one thing is common, preampifiers with Rload inverting the pahase to 180 deg.
like in example with 6V6 here, and almost every design we can find...
That is not acceptable.
So the proper design have to incude input, output or booth transformers, to be considered like valid.
Not to forget, 6SN7 is much better device for sound implementations then 6922...
But 6922 can be used for rectification in PS section of RIAA pre-preamplifier...
Thanks
could deliver a great sound, just like we have an example with 6V6...
Also the lower value for Rload could be applyed, because we have few volts of signal
at the input of pre-amplifier... Sometimes even lower than Ri of the tube, but with preserved low distorsion and dramaticaly increse of sound quality...
Pentodes in triode mode have a lower amplification factor up to 6, which can be accepted,
against 6922 tube with A=35 that overloads input of the amplifier hardly...
But one thing is common, preampifiers with Rload inverting the pahase to 180 deg.
like in example with 6V6 here, and almost every design we can find...
That is not acceptable.
So the proper design have to incude input, output or booth transformers, to be considered like valid.
Not to forget, 6SN7 is much better device for sound implementations then 6922...
But 6922 can be used for rectification in PS section of RIAA pre-preamplifier...
Thanks
variables
"Pentodes in triode mode have a lower amplification factor up to 6, which can be accepted,
against 6922 tube with A=35 that overloads input of the amplifier hardly..."
But using a higher gainstage allows one to use fewer overall stages. So the net gain is one stage to distort the music. One could then rid of the extra stage, say in the amp (integrated).
"But one thing is common, preampifiers with Rload inverting the pahase to 180 deg.
like in example with 6V6 here, and almost every design we can find...
That is not acceptable."
"Why not simply invert the speaker leads?"
"Not to forget, 6SN7 is much better device for sound implementations then 6922..."
How does one know which is best since all of us have different tastes? Some like accurate, some like lean, some like fuller, some like syrupy. I thought there were no absolutes?
If one likes accurate, which some state, how do one know what is accurate? Does one have a way of testing?
If one likes accurate, one doesn't want to use a 6sn7.
Just doesn't cut it. Now if one likes flavoring, a personal choice, the tube is good. And where is one going to get one and how much?
How does one know the parts one is using are actually the 'best' and are not flavoring the sound to ones liking?
How does one know you have the best design?
How does one know if one of the components, say cartridge/phono, is accurate or whether the 6sn7 is compensating for X? Does that make the 6sn7 better?
How does one know if one could not get better, with a different design, parts, tube?
How much experimentation has one perfomred? Is ones testing accurate?
6922 good for rectification in power supply for phono stages? I thought the rectifier made a sonic difference? So why us an inferior rectifier instead of a good one, like a 6sn7?
Just something to think about.
"Pentodes in triode mode have a lower amplification factor up to 6, which can be accepted,
against 6922 tube with A=35 that overloads input of the amplifier hardly..."
But using a higher gainstage allows one to use fewer overall stages. So the net gain is one stage to distort the music. One could then rid of the extra stage, say in the amp (integrated).
"But one thing is common, preampifiers with Rload inverting the pahase to 180 deg.
like in example with 6V6 here, and almost every design we can find...
That is not acceptable."
"Why not simply invert the speaker leads?"
"Not to forget, 6SN7 is much better device for sound implementations then 6922..."
How does one know which is best since all of us have different tastes? Some like accurate, some like lean, some like fuller, some like syrupy. I thought there were no absolutes?
If one likes accurate, which some state, how do one know what is accurate? Does one have a way of testing?
If one likes accurate, one doesn't want to use a 6sn7.
Just doesn't cut it. Now if one likes flavoring, a personal choice, the tube is good. And where is one going to get one and how much?
How does one know the parts one is using are actually the 'best' and are not flavoring the sound to ones liking?
How does one know you have the best design?
How does one know if one of the components, say cartridge/phono, is accurate or whether the 6sn7 is compensating for X? Does that make the 6sn7 better?
How does one know if one could not get better, with a different design, parts, tube?
How much experimentation has one perfomred? Is ones testing accurate?
6922 good for rectification in power supply for phono stages? I thought the rectifier made a sonic difference? So why us an inferior rectifier instead of a good one, like a 6sn7?
Just something to think about.
Zoran
We can always reverse the polarity again on the speaker terminals...
Rdf
I just did not have one proper choke for anode handy. Maybe it will sound fantastic, maybe it will tighten the sonic flow. Hey guys, make one, I wanna know!
😎
We can always reverse the polarity again on the speaker terminals...
Rdf
I just did not have one proper choke for anode handy. Maybe it will sound fantastic, maybe it will tighten the sonic flow. Hey guys, make one, I wanna know!
😎
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