Wavecor WF182BD04
WF182BD03_04
I was thinking of using this with a pair of (push-push) side mounted 8" Excel woofers (W22EX001) but was warned that for a passive system (I wanted to run the whole system for a HT/AV amps front channels) the C16N001 is not advisable.
Excellent choice.
Also a good choice.
What about the L22RNX/P in a TL?
Pure bass driver, I think. Maybe if crossed around 1000 Hz with large compression driver-horn.
Dayton Audio RS-180-4 seems to be very good in smallish sealed. Fs 40 Hz, Qts 0,50 and very small Vas around 26 litre. (can Vas be so small?)
Gives F3 57Hz and F10 down to 35 Hz in 22 litre sealed (Qtc 0,75)!
(little less sensitive per watt than CA18RLY, there it comes maybe)
Has someone experience of that Dayton Audio? I don't believe that it would be as good as Seas for mids but it certainly seems better in bass. It is also hard load for amplifier. :/
Gives F3 57Hz and F10 down to 35 Hz in 22 litre sealed (Qtc 0,75)!
(little less sensitive per watt than CA18RLY, there it comes maybe)
Has someone experience of that Dayton Audio? I don't believe that it would be as good as Seas for mids but it certainly seems better in bass. It is also hard load for amplifier. :/
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Found very nice woofer for closed but sadly it is not midwoofer really🙁 It's alu cone Peerless, goes quite low in 30 l closed. F3 50 Hz and F10 28 Hz.
Not the cheapest one. Nice woofer for small 3-way.
Peerless 835026 8" Aluminum Cone HDS Woofer 264-1100
Not the cheapest one. Nice woofer for small 3-way.
Peerless 835026 8" Aluminum Cone HDS Woofer 264-1100
Hi Navin,
Side mounted force cancelling bipole bass drivers and coax mid.
Would this be something of a poor mans Kef blade?
Back in the 70's I think most folks had badly aligned BR woofers in their speakers, like a BIC Formula 4 or something... We loved that booming bass back then...
The 4 ohm version does F3 of 45Hz in a medium sized room easily. This driver is better suited for bass reflex enclosures and no matter what alignment - prefers a bigger box. The 4 ohm works best in 28-30l where simulations suggest 19-20l.
I would go with no doubt for the Scanspeak Classic series, they work better than the Revelators in sealed enclosures, tested. Depending on your cut off freq., the Classic range has less dynamics and muddier midrange compared to the Revelator line. From all speakers I have been in touch with, the Classic is just much better in sealed than anything else. Cone is well made and has very good tembre in the lower bass. A friend used the 25cm version which was specially designed for sealed use in bass modules ( as he calls them ), sealed, to my ear - nothing of this size can beat this driver in sealed enclosure. The 18W and 21W have a breakup node which is well controllable and indeed, doesn`t sound nasty as most metal cones do.
Sreten, I saw a post for the sound of ported enclosures and that the statement that one may prefer sealed as not being true. How would you comment the bass clarity coming from a ported enclosure at medium driver excursion around the tunning frequency when playing a bass ( the instrument )? I have listened back loaded horns, bass reflex enclosures with different port settings and none was able to reproduce it, all sounded as I have played a repeating 30Hz sine wave with lenght of a second.
Here is a measurement of the SS 18W4531G00 in a sealed 29l cab:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It will be far better to go with two woofers instead of one.
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Take a look at Zaph's BAMTM using the Dayton 7" DA175. Take note of his comments comparing the DA175 to much higher priced drivers. I am very impressed with mine, especially considering the low cost & very simple crossover.
The RS-180 is quite a nice driver. Mids are not as smooth as the Seas ER18RNX but bass is slightly stronger.
I have one loaded with a Double Chamber Reflex.
It can be in a 14L sealed or ported box too. Optimum Q. I plan to do this after I finish some other boxes I'm working on now.
Attachments
^ upper resonance show that maybe not going into 2-way with that Dayton.
I have looked this subject a lot and have not found better than Seas CA18RLY if we look for :
1enough deep F10 in closed box,
2smooth resonance free midrange for 2-way,
3not too low sensitivity and
4not too high price.
I have looked this subject a lot and have not found better than Seas CA18RLY if we look for :
1enough deep F10 in closed box,
2smooth resonance free midrange for 2-way,
3not too low sensitivity and
4not too high price.
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Seas makes some verz nice drivers for the price but now there are other options which I find better - SB Acoustics for example. What I do not like in the most Seas speakers is:
- low sensitivity accompanied with a high Fs compared to other drivers in this price range
- high inductance of the voice coil and its weight
- cone has a treatment which at least to me blurs the midrange
- Excel drivers - I have never heard a speaker including sets in the price range of over 20 grand, neither the Thor kit, that sounded good to my ears. There was also some metallic colouration on drum sets that was always there
- the phase plug on the Excels leaks compression, before to comment try any speaker that uses an Excel woofer with a pasive radiator
- cone breakup on the aluminum and magnesium drivers limist their use as a two way and asks for a steep high order crossover and even with an LR4 - a notch to control cone resonance
What I like:
- price
- build quality is phenomenal
- very well designed basket
The bigger ER18RNX is quite a nice driver especially considering its price, I would definitely try it out soon 🙂 I hope they won`t increase it. My suggestion for a sealed 6.5-7" is this one:
Scanspeak Classic 18W/8535-00 7" Mid Woofer for Sealed Boxes: Madisound Speaker Store
PS: The guy with the bass modules also has the 18W classic drivers and I think he was selling them. They have been lightly modified - baskets are made aerodynamic and damped to avoid ringing and reflections towards the cone. If you are interested, I can call him and let him know so you could talk about the price and get some pics of the drivers.
- low sensitivity accompanied with a high Fs compared to other drivers in this price range
- high inductance of the voice coil and its weight
- cone has a treatment which at least to me blurs the midrange
- Excel drivers - I have never heard a speaker including sets in the price range of over 20 grand, neither the Thor kit, that sounded good to my ears. There was also some metallic colouration on drum sets that was always there
- the phase plug on the Excels leaks compression, before to comment try any speaker that uses an Excel woofer with a pasive radiator
- cone breakup on the aluminum and magnesium drivers limist their use as a two way and asks for a steep high order crossover and even with an LR4 - a notch to control cone resonance
What I like:
- price
- build quality is phenomenal
- very well designed basket
The bigger ER18RNX is quite a nice driver especially considering its price, I would definitely try it out soon 🙂 I hope they won`t increase it. My suggestion for a sealed 6.5-7" is this one:
Scanspeak Classic 18W/8535-00 7" Mid Woofer for Sealed Boxes: Madisound Speaker Store
PS: The guy with the bass modules also has the 18W classic drivers and I think he was selling them. They have been lightly modified - baskets are made aerodynamic and damped to avoid ringing and reflections towards the cone. If you are interested, I can call him and let him know so you could talk about the price and get some pics of the drivers.
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Hi guys
May I once again make an alternate suggestion? How about using fullrange drivers. Using a fullrange driver will simplify the design of the crossover, as well as give you a lot of flexibility with crossover points.
Have look at good fullrange drivers in the 6 To 8 inch range. My suggestion would be the MarkAudio Alpair 10 or 12. These should work well enough in a sealed box, and have been reported to sound very good. Other alternatives range from Bandor to DC Gold Audio.
Fostex is also a possibility, but low x-max and reports of uneveness in the midrange might preclude them.
Hope this gives something to think about.
Enjoy,
Deon
May I once again make an alternate suggestion? How about using fullrange drivers. Using a fullrange driver will simplify the design of the crossover, as well as give you a lot of flexibility with crossover points.
Have look at good fullrange drivers in the 6 To 8 inch range. My suggestion would be the MarkAudio Alpair 10 or 12. These should work well enough in a sealed box, and have been reported to sound very good. Other alternatives range from Bandor to DC Gold Audio.
Fostex is also a possibility, but low x-max and reports of uneveness in the midrange might preclude them.
Hope this gives something to think about.
Enjoy,
Deon
Fullranges work fine in some cases but are strongly dependent of music style, playback volume and listening distance. Listen from 3 m distance some complex heavy metal louder than moderate level and they go "shut in".
What is said above is true, problem with most fullranges is excursion capabilities and distortion, most have limited bass performance in a sealed cab and tend to shout in the midrange. I would say that a good combination is a big bass driver, at least of 25cm but two 18W would do the job too crossed to a OB fullrange, something from the Sigma range, the 16cm one looks quite well and should be able to opperate on OB at 250Hz 2nd order with some power limitations crossed to at least 4 tweeters ( two front d`appolito on the two sides of the Fostex and two at the back ) at 6-7Khz, could be cheap like the SB Acoustics range and their dispersion data seems to be best over 10Khz.
I feel however that this is a topic of another conversation as the thread was for the best 6.5-7" midwoofer to work sealed.
I feel however that this is a topic of another conversation as the thread was for the best 6.5-7" midwoofer to work sealed.
1It is true that Seas's have quite high inductance. FOr example 18RLY 1,05 mH vs. SB17NRXC35-8 0,15 mH. 😕 What that's got to do in real world, I'm not sure.
SB17 has nice low Fs compared to light cone (11g). It is lighter than Seas's, though it is ~15-20% smaller. For bass production, small cone is always negative. SB17 goes in lot smaller volume (you can almost think of 2 of them for same box than 1 x 18RLY).
2I have thought same thing. "hole" in the cone can't be good for pressurizing and moving air.
3 Yes 18W8535 is bass monster compared to others. It is 2-3 dB lower sensitive and it certainly is not good thing. And I doubt is it that good in upper mids, might be bettet as bass driver in small 3-way. In it costs 3 times money than others.
Isn't this a smaller magnet version of the 8545 I recommended earlier? The 8545 has 2.5 db greater sensitivity than the 8535. The mids are excellent on the 8545, but take a skilled hand at the xover tiller to get there.
Dave
Hi guys
Re. fullrangers and complex or heavy music: I agree that some fullrangers will not be able to do metal at high volumes (mainly I suspect due to low x-max), and this is something that a metalhead like myself would abhor, but units like the MarkAudio often have better x-max figures than most standard drivers, along with vanishingly low inductance figures. Do yourself a favour and have a look at them before dismissing them out of hand.
Enjoy,
Deon
PS. I have noa afiliation or commercial interest in recommending the MarkAudio units. Just admiration for what has been achieved.
Re. fullrangers and complex or heavy music: I agree that some fullrangers will not be able to do metal at high volumes (mainly I suspect due to low x-max), and this is something that a metalhead like myself would abhor, but units like the MarkAudio often have better x-max figures than most standard drivers, along with vanishingly low inductance figures. Do yourself a favour and have a look at them before dismissing them out of hand.
Enjoy,
Deon
PS. I have noa afiliation or commercial interest in recommending the MarkAudio units. Just admiration for what has been achieved.
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