I´m planing bulding a 4 way active system : 1 amp for woofers , 1 for low mid , 1 for mid high and 1 for highs plus a selfpowered subwoofer( the sub is out of the dig. crossover has it´s own frequency controls ). The digital crossover is mini dsp 2x8 . I prefer using 4ohm woofers , 8 ohm midrange and tweeter. My question is are these good driver choices ?
GF200 - Visaton 20 cm (8 inch) High-End woofer with double voice-coil - Europe Audio
10F/8424G00 - Scan-Speak 4 inch wideband coated fiberglass - Europe Audio
RS52AN-8 - Dayton Reference Aluminum Dome Midrange - Europe Audio
Peerless - Tweeters - Europe Audio
GF200 - Visaton 20 cm (8 inch) High-End woofer with double voice-coil - Europe Audio
10F/8424G00 - Scan-Speak 4 inch wideband coated fiberglass - Europe Audio
RS52AN-8 - Dayton Reference Aluminum Dome Midrange - Europe Audio
Peerless - Tweeters - Europe Audio
considering you will also have subs, I would say your 8" woofer sensitivity is far too low
I think 90db+ should be minimum
well, maybe the same goes for the 4" discovery
and I might look at a smaller tweeter to go with the mid dome
with a big 4way, I would consider a 10" woofer and 6" midbass
there is a lot of energy in their 'area'
you are using 3 drivers to take care of midrange frequencies
and only one small woofer
I think 90db+ should be minimum
well, maybe the same goes for the 4" discovery
and I might look at a smaller tweeter to go with the mid dome
with a big 4way, I would consider a 10" woofer and 6" midbass
there is a lot of energy in their 'area'
you are using 3 drivers to take care of midrange frequencies
and only one small woofer
Hi.
If you don't mind a suggestion, how about a 3.5 way with the following drivers:
This Coaxial to handle the midrange and top end with a smooth, consistent radiation pattern.
This Woofer to handle 20hz to ~350hz - wherever the baffle step comes into play of course.
A second of the same woofer underneath brought in to augment 20hz to ~60hz - cross it lower to keep center to center spacing smooth.
Two Coaxes will cost you 230 Euro
Four Woofers will cost you ~500 Euro
Roll off the first woofer a few db around where you bring in the second woofer to make frequency response match.
Use the miniDSP to really flatten the frequency response of the excellent coaxial. You can probably use lower order filters and still have strong power handling if you don't ask the coaxial to have too much excursion.
By keeping the crossovers a good decade apart I think you'll find it a lot easier to integrate everything.
Output should be superb with a 10" driver handling the upper bass. Extension should be fine with dual 10" lower fs drivers - make it a transmission line for superior extension.
It's just a suggestion, but this would be my choice for a superior full range loudspeaker. If you want to spend more, swap the prestige coax with the higher end 5" Excel Coax.
If you don't mind a suggestion, how about a 3.5 way with the following drivers:
This Coaxial to handle the midrange and top end with a smooth, consistent radiation pattern.
This Woofer to handle 20hz to ~350hz - wherever the baffle step comes into play of course.
A second of the same woofer underneath brought in to augment 20hz to ~60hz - cross it lower to keep center to center spacing smooth.
Two Coaxes will cost you 230 Euro
Four Woofers will cost you ~500 Euro
Roll off the first woofer a few db around where you bring in the second woofer to make frequency response match.
Use the miniDSP to really flatten the frequency response of the excellent coaxial. You can probably use lower order filters and still have strong power handling if you don't ask the coaxial to have too much excursion.
By keeping the crossovers a good decade apart I think you'll find it a lot easier to integrate everything.
Output should be superb with a 10" driver handling the upper bass. Extension should be fine with dual 10" lower fs drivers - make it a transmission line for superior extension.
It's just a suggestion, but this would be my choice for a superior full range loudspeaker. If you want to spend more, swap the prestige coax with the higher end 5" Excel Coax.
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TIW250XS - Visaton 25 cm (10 inch) high-end woofer - Europe Audio
SPH-130AL - Monacor high-tech bass-midrange speaker 100Wmax 8 Ohm - Europe Audio
it´s a 6 inch
DSM50FFL - Visaton 50 mm (2 inch) High-End titanium dome driver (1163) - Europe Audio
http://www.europe-audio.com/Producten_c.asp?Productgroep_B_ID=350&Productgroep_A_ID=82
i couldn´t find a 10" 4ohm woofer , only 8ohm and at max 88db.i have to buy in europe , no express parts for me !
I dont like the sound of paper woofers , i know everybody else does but i dont.
the visaton mid dome looks like a better choice than the dayton.
the tweeter is the only keeper , i like 1" tweeters , and this one had great review on zaph audio. Still i have a doubt if i should choose soft or metal dome . Soft domes seem to have no resolution but metal sound harsh sometimes . I like ribbons but distortion is a problem , i was listening to some keyboards on a Van halen song and they sounded so high (volume) , i´m shure it was tweeter distortion (fountek neo cd1).
SPH-130AL - Monacor high-tech bass-midrange speaker 100Wmax 8 Ohm - Europe Audio
it´s a 6 inch
DSM50FFL - Visaton 50 mm (2 inch) High-End titanium dome driver (1163) - Europe Audio
http://www.europe-audio.com/Producten_c.asp?Productgroep_B_ID=350&Productgroep_A_ID=82
i couldn´t find a 10" 4ohm woofer , only 8ohm and at max 88db.i have to buy in europe , no express parts for me !
I dont like the sound of paper woofers , i know everybody else does but i dont.
the visaton mid dome looks like a better choice than the dayton.
the tweeter is the only keeper , i like 1" tweeters , and this one had great review on zaph audio. Still i have a doubt if i should choose soft or metal dome . Soft domes seem to have no resolution but metal sound harsh sometimes . I like ribbons but distortion is a problem , i was listening to some keyboards on a Van halen song and they sounded so high (volume) , i´m shure it was tweeter distortion (fountek neo cd1).
I'll sort of echo what tinitus has said, the 10F and the RS52 are both very good choices for the upper midrange, but they both do the same job, say cover from 500-3000hz.
The 810921 is a very good tweeter with a great deal of design flexibility so there's no trouble there.
Of the 10F and the RS52, although similar, they do have enough differences to warrant enough individual consideration. For starters the RS52 does not require a cabinet, this could be a huge design advantage as it means less complexity. The 10F on the other hand, not only requires a cabinet, but special attention must be paid to the rear of the driver as to let the rear breathe, if this is neglected the performance suffers. As to the other main differences, the 10F has quite a lot of scope for low end integration, both drivers have low distortion and as a result are excursion limited towards what high pass they require. The 10F has far more flexibility when it comes to integrating with the driver that's going to work below it.
This is where the trouble, or the possibility of a problem occurs. If you use an 8" bass driver you don't need anything more then a three way. The Dayton RS225 is an excellent 8" driver and more sensitive then the visaton driver. Europe Audio used to sell the RS225 but for some reason it's not on their website any more. I do know that the shielded versions have been phased out, so it's a possibility that EA hasn't acquired new stock yet. If you are interested in an 8" driver of similar design specification, you can't go much wrong with it. It will easily go up to 500-600hz and mate well with the RS52 if required.
All you'd need now is a sub.
The visaton isn't 4 ohms by the way, it has two 4 ohm coils, which you're supposed to wire in series to give a single 8 ohm impedance.
If you consider everything under 100hz sub territory then in a typical hifi loudspeaker a 4 way is not required.
If you use a 10" bass driver in the main system, you can easily get by with a 5" mid range driver, to which the peerless 810921 will happily crossover to. You could even use a 10" bass driver with a 6.5" mid and an 810921.
There are some advantages to going 4 way, but these only really matter if you're wanting to play things very loud. Splitting the <300hz range up between a 10" and a 6.5" would, like tinitus mentioned, help with this. I'd use a 10" 6.5", something like an RS52 and then a tweeter. I'd crossover ~150hz, 800hz and about 3000hz.
I can't help but wonder however if the biggest concerns are really going to be driver integration. You might have a DSP but it counts for nowt if you don't have design and measuring software/hardware at your disposal. You're going to need good design capabilities to pull off a complicated multiway loudspeaker and considering your driver choices, it looks like you could be diving in almost blind.
The 810921 is a very good tweeter with a great deal of design flexibility so there's no trouble there.
Of the 10F and the RS52, although similar, they do have enough differences to warrant enough individual consideration. For starters the RS52 does not require a cabinet, this could be a huge design advantage as it means less complexity. The 10F on the other hand, not only requires a cabinet, but special attention must be paid to the rear of the driver as to let the rear breathe, if this is neglected the performance suffers. As to the other main differences, the 10F has quite a lot of scope for low end integration, both drivers have low distortion and as a result are excursion limited towards what high pass they require. The 10F has far more flexibility when it comes to integrating with the driver that's going to work below it.
This is where the trouble, or the possibility of a problem occurs. If you use an 8" bass driver you don't need anything more then a three way. The Dayton RS225 is an excellent 8" driver and more sensitive then the visaton driver. Europe Audio used to sell the RS225 but for some reason it's not on their website any more. I do know that the shielded versions have been phased out, so it's a possibility that EA hasn't acquired new stock yet. If you are interested in an 8" driver of similar design specification, you can't go much wrong with it. It will easily go up to 500-600hz and mate well with the RS52 if required.
All you'd need now is a sub.
The visaton isn't 4 ohms by the way, it has two 4 ohm coils, which you're supposed to wire in series to give a single 8 ohm impedance.
If you consider everything under 100hz sub territory then in a typical hifi loudspeaker a 4 way is not required.
If you use a 10" bass driver in the main system, you can easily get by with a 5" mid range driver, to which the peerless 810921 will happily crossover to. You could even use a 10" bass driver with a 6.5" mid and an 810921.
There are some advantages to going 4 way, but these only really matter if you're wanting to play things very loud. Splitting the <300hz range up between a 10" and a 6.5" would, like tinitus mentioned, help with this. I'd use a 10" 6.5", something like an RS52 and then a tweeter. I'd crossover ~150hz, 800hz and about 3000hz.
I can't help but wonder however if the biggest concerns are really going to be driver integration. You might have a DSP but it counts for nowt if you don't have design and measuring software/hardware at your disposal. You're going to need good design capabilities to pull off a complicated multiway loudspeaker and considering your driver choices, it looks like you could be diving in almost blind.
Have you seen the measured performance of the dayton RS52? You can't really do much better for a 2" driver. And as to your comments about tweeters, providing they are designed well it is all about how you use them.
can i use this one for mid range ? i have 2 units already.
H1224-08 - Seas L18RNX/P 6.5 inch woofer - Europe Audio
H1224-08 - Seas L18RNX/P 6.5 inch woofer - Europe Audio
that woofer was another of my choices , i already have some prestige seas drivers and i like the polite sound they have.
cheap interesting woofer that haven't been 'tested yet
MONACOR INTERNATIONAL : Produktdetailseite
two of them in 3.5way might work well
ought to roll off smoothly in closed
and doesn't need big volume either
personally, I would buy one or two, and give them a listen first
MONACOR INTERNATIONAL : Produktdetailseite
two of them in 3.5way might work well
ought to roll off smoothly in closed
and doesn't need big volume either
personally, I would buy one or two, and give them a listen first
Attachments
Both of these work well, one has duty in a premium active commercial speaker.
Linkwitz-Riley Electronic Crossover
Project 125
Frank
Linkwitz-Riley Electronic Crossover
Project 125
Frank
me too 😀 or at least thinking about it 🙂
but I guess we are on our own, with such 'foolishness' 😱
want to debate it ?
basicly i already have a 4 way system , since my setup is 3 way + subs , i was wondering about making the 3 way a 4 way + subs
I have had a very simlar project in mind with the aim of maximum dispersion but I think 4 drivers is not needed only 3 if your using 48db/octave filters.
Tweeter (>2Khz):
Vifa Xt19
super super wider dispersion and yet low distortion
Mid(400Hz - 2Khz):
Tang brand 75-1558SE can run low for a dome midrange and has the lowest distortion I have seen mesured and wide dispersion.
Bass(50 - 400Hz):
50L closed box with Arum Cantus AC-250 MKII (f-3dB = 50Hz). I don't like ported boxes. You also may aswell use a 10" bass driver as at 400Hz it won't be beaming.
Some tests of midrange drivers, the differences in distortion perfomance are suprising!
Zaph|Audio
This scheme should ensure 90degree horizontal dispersion to 10KHz wherupon it will gradualy narrow. The Dayton dome midrange I was intialy attracted to but rearlised the cone breakup would be a problem. Max SPL is limited by the tweeter by changing to the xt25 dispersion is less wide at high frequancies but max SPL increased.
Tweeter (>2Khz):
Vifa Xt19
super super wider dispersion and yet low distortion
Mid(400Hz - 2Khz):
Tang brand 75-1558SE can run low for a dome midrange and has the lowest distortion I have seen mesured and wide dispersion.
Bass(50 - 400Hz):
50L closed box with Arum Cantus AC-250 MKII (f-3dB = 50Hz). I don't like ported boxes. You also may aswell use a 10" bass driver as at 400Hz it won't be beaming.
Some tests of midrange drivers, the differences in distortion perfomance are suprising!
Zaph|Audio
This scheme should ensure 90degree horizontal dispersion to 10KHz wherupon it will gradualy narrow. The Dayton dome midrange I was intialy attracted to but rearlised the cone breakup would be a problem. Max SPL is limited by the tweeter by changing to the xt25 dispersion is less wide at high frequancies but max SPL increased.
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