Eftersom du verkar vara från Sverige så skriver jag på svenska istället, tycker du ska testa att staga själva ”basdelen” på lådan för om du knackar på lådan uppifrån och ner så hör du att det låter mer ihåligt längre ner,jag kilade fast ett stag av rundstång så det sitter i spänn och sen limmade, och nu när jag spelar musik är det i princip fritt från vibrationer och det tajtade till basen och jag ska försöka få till nåt däruppe också
Japp är från Sverige Håbo kommun 5 mil norr om Stockholm.
Intressant med staget, hur fick du in det och vad limmade du med? ( inte smältlim va)
På sida 7 i PDF:en för Jamo D590 beskriver Jamo uppbyggnaden av kabinettet vilket är en ny teknik med lamell limmade olika lager just för att få enorm stabilitet & inte påverkas av kabinette vibbrationer.
Sedan kan man ju oftast förstärka allt vad gäller woofer lådor, det blir ju knappast någonsin sämre!
Men ovandelen är garanterat stark nog med stag & mellanskivor!
Tack, jag ska analysera detta i morgon 👍
Translate for Ray and others reading this tread:
Yes is from Sweden Håbo , 50 km north of Stockholm.
Interesting with the strut, how did you get it in and what did you glue with it? (not hot melt glue)
On page 7 of the PDF for the Jamo D590, Jamo describes the construction of the cabinet, which is a new technology with lamella glued different layers just to get enormous stability & not be affected by cabinet vibrations.
Then you can usually strut everything when it comes to woofer boxes, it will hardly ever get worse!
But the upper is guaranteed strong enough with struts & the box for mid/twe
Thanks, I'll analyze this tomorrow
Intressant med staget, hur fick du in det och vad limmade du med? ( inte smältlim va)
På sida 7 i PDF:en för Jamo D590 beskriver Jamo uppbyggnaden av kabinettet vilket är en ny teknik med lamell limmade olika lager just för att få enorm stabilitet & inte påverkas av kabinette vibbrationer.
Sedan kan man ju oftast förstärka allt vad gäller woofer lådor, det blir ju knappast någonsin sämre!
Men ovandelen är garanterat stark nog med stag & mellanskivor!
Tack, jag ska analysera detta i morgon 👍
Translate for Ray and others reading this tread:
Yes is from Sweden Håbo , 50 km north of Stockholm.
Interesting with the strut, how did you get it in and what did you glue with it? (not hot melt glue)
On page 7 of the PDF for the Jamo D590, Jamo describes the construction of the cabinet, which is a new technology with lamella glued different layers just to get enormous stability & not be affected by cabinet vibrations.
Then you can usually strut everything when it comes to woofer boxes, it will hardly ever get worse!
But the upper is guaranteed strong enough with struts & the box for mid/twe
Thanks, I'll analyze this tomorrow
Jo det är smältlim men det är mest för sakens skull🙂 staget sitter bra av sig själv, jag sågade av rundstången lite i taget tills nästan gick in och sen knacka jag försiktigt tills den fastnade,krävs lite finlir men inga konstigheter och värt besväret tycker jag,det är väldigt intressant med dina tester med delningsfiltret även om jag aldrig pillat med det.
Kunde vart kul med nån sorts sammanfattning längre fram vad som bör göras
Mätte du högtalaren nån gång med orginalfiltret och bara nya element? Vad blev resultatet?
Kunde vart kul med nån sorts sammanfattning längre fram vad som bör göras
Mätte du högtalaren nån gång med orginalfiltret och bara nya element? Vad blev resultatet?
Vart i Sverige bor du ?
Trä torkar och krymper & smältlim är värdelöst där det är vibrationen hahaha, men gillar din framåt anda 👍
Detta är mätningar från orginal delningsfilter med nya elementen SB26ADC & 5FE120 8 ohms version.
Och mätningar med modifierat filter.
Jag kommer sammanfatta modifieringen i filtret sen!
In English:
Wood dries and shrinks & hot melt glue is useless where there is vibration hahaha, but like your forward spirit.
These are measurements from the original crossover filter with the new elements SB26ADC & 5FE120 8 ohm version.
And measurements with modified filter.
I will summarize the modification in the filter later!
/John
Trä torkar och krymper & smältlim är värdelöst där det är vibrationen hahaha, men gillar din framåt anda 👍
Detta är mätningar från orginal delningsfilter med nya elementen SB26ADC & 5FE120 8 ohms version.
Och mätningar med modifierat filter.
Jag kommer sammanfatta modifieringen i filtret sen!
In English:
Wood dries and shrinks & hot melt glue is useless where there is vibration hahaha, but like your forward spirit.
These are measurements from the original crossover filter with the new elements SB26ADC & 5FE120 8 ohm version.
And measurements with modified filter.
I will summarize the modification in the filter later!
/John
Attachments
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These was the first speaker i build in my life 2019 for my basement cinemaroom, and it was a real big job with cabinette and lacquer.
All done by me at home exept xover in MTM that a friend did, driving the woofers with active xover up to 300 hz.
Had upgraded today/2021 with 1 more 12 inch woofer per side, and build completley new MTM with ATM tweeter and 2x8 inch mid-
And on that my first xover
Bad pic on "upgraded today" speaker, but better then nothing
/John
All done by me at home exept xover in MTM that a friend did, driving the woofers with active xover up to 300 hz.
Had upgraded today/2021 with 1 more 12 inch woofer per side, and build completley new MTM with ATM tweeter and 2x8 inch mid-
And on that my first xover
Bad pic on "upgraded today" speaker, but better then nothing
/John
Attachments
175 kilo each small.....now 205 kg.....125-127dB (if you want) hi end sound from 4m listening-point 😉
Headroom is what you want and 92dB woofers 350 W with 92dB sensitivity 16 ohm twin 8 ohm`s coil, so 3 paralell 5,66 ohm....perfect!
Headroom is what you want and 92dB woofers 350 W with 92dB sensitivity 16 ohm twin 8 ohm`s coil, so 3 paralell 5,66 ohm....perfect!
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Own a II generation Von Schweikert VR4, upgraded to VR4/5/7 around 2002. (still have them),
A fantastic speaker with amoung the best mid i have heard in that speaker, so first design was with the same midrange Audax HM130Z0 X 2.
And i also bought 4 Peerlees XXLS 12 inch modelnr 830847 back in 2005, so I thought it was time to build something 😉
The project was "real much work" but end result was supergood 👌
Had them for a few testweeks and notice i neded more headroom ( im sometimes a 110-115 dB listener)
And on a 5-6 hour long listening session i burned 3 of 4 midrange voice coils, so i needed to do something.
So I chose to build a new MTM with "big brother mid" 99dB Aerogel-cone Audax HM210z10 and 100dB AMT tweeter from Mundorf.
And was so lucky finding a un-used par of XXLS 12 inch Peerlees in Canada for sale, and bought them also to have more headroom.
So now headroom is there!
And i think its a must building large speaker if you want headroom at 110-115dB, and keep the hi end sound.
There is no shortcuts.
Best regards John
A fantastic speaker with amoung the best mid i have heard in that speaker, so first design was with the same midrange Audax HM130Z0 X 2.
And i also bought 4 Peerlees XXLS 12 inch modelnr 830847 back in 2005, so I thought it was time to build something 😉
The project was "real much work" but end result was supergood 👌
Had them for a few testweeks and notice i neded more headroom ( im sometimes a 110-115 dB listener)
And on a 5-6 hour long listening session i burned 3 of 4 midrange voice coils, so i needed to do something.
So I chose to build a new MTM with "big brother mid" 99dB Aerogel-cone Audax HM210z10 and 100dB AMT tweeter from Mundorf.
And was so lucky finding a un-used par of XXLS 12 inch Peerlees in Canada for sale, and bought them also to have more headroom.
So now headroom is there!
And i think its a must building large speaker if you want headroom at 110-115dB, and keep the hi end sound.
There is no shortcuts.
Best regards John
Hi Jawen,
Is the blue response with the bass filter connected. Is it just the single inductor solution ?
It would be useful to see the bass response at the normal mic position you have been using. and the combined response as well. Yes, I am sure you will have room suck outs in your overall response, but the overall response will point to how well the levels are integrating at listening levels
How does the bass sound is it starting to integrate well?? or is there a fair way to go yet.
Can you get something across the full range like I have shown in the attachment,
Is the blue response with the bass filter connected. Is it just the single inductor solution ?
It would be useful to see the bass response at the normal mic position you have been using. and the combined response as well. Yes, I am sure you will have room suck outs in your overall response, but the overall response will point to how well the levels are integrating at listening levels
How does the bass sound is it starting to integrate well?? or is there a fair way to go yet.
Can you get something across the full range like I have shown in the attachment,
Attachments
Yes Ray, its the modified original 3 way filter ( the single coil was the other speaker with completly new small values filter)
Here i put together curve mesaured from "normal" mic possition and todays woofer curve.
! Woofer curve was +3dB i spl when i did the mesaurement
Must drive get my dother from her friend now, write more later.
/John
Attachments
The woofer integrate well in the modified 3 way original filter, but i would lowe some more dB at 30hz if its possible.
Have mesaure the original 13cm port in speaker, and its tuned to about 38hz.
Dont know if change port to the one i bought will help.
The second filter that i "play with" in the other speaker have entirely new components (as you know Ray)
10uF+0,2mH+10uF +2,2ohm at tweeter....0,68mH+30uF at midrange...and6,2mH+220uF at woofer
And that speaker is re-build with fillings and new 50cm port, and and its tuned to about 28hz. (mesaured)
I have 8 more dB at 30hz on that speaker, but sensivity is a few dB lower
I post both left and Right speakermesaurements from 1 & 3 meter, left speaker have the "new" xover (mentioned earlier in text) and the Right speaker have the modified original Jamo 3 way xover
Is the photo attached named "Ray curve" somehing like your attachment Ray?
Its a mesaurement from 11 Feb
Best regards John
Attachments
Also still testing with the "alternative"xover, and had sat in XSim and played trying to get sensivity up a little.
That filter have quite small values ( exept on woofer hahaha), but woofer seems to need bigger values to integratei good, because i don`t want 3-4-5-6-7-8-900hz out from port and must cross att maximum 150hz
Seems hard to move curve up at exact 3500hz point, but maby its only a artifact on the XSim program?
Feel a little curious about how this filter would measure, so tomorrow I may build this filter
Best regards John
That filter have quite small values ( exept on woofer hahaha), but woofer seems to need bigger values to integratei good, because i don`t want 3-4-5-6-7-8-900hz out from port and must cross att maximum 150hz
Seems hard to move curve up at exact 3500hz point, but maby its only a artifact on the XSim program?
Feel a little curious about how this filter would measure, so tomorrow I may build this filter
Best regards John
Attachments
Put both speaker beside each other more "in the middle of the room"and mesaure a little on new filter and modified original 3 way xover
Test with both xover from 2 meter.
Tried 3 different caps value on "new build filter" both after coil in midrange, and last cap on tweeter...But can`t get 3.500 hz up!.....So frustrating🤮
Right speaker is modified original filter
1/48 smooting so you can se it all !
And do not think I will come much further with this project, so i have to take a decision soon.
Best regards John
Test with both xover from 2 meter.
Tried 3 different caps value on "new build filter" both after coil in midrange, and last cap on tweeter...But can`t get 3.500 hz up!.....So frustrating🤮
Right speaker is modified original filter
1/48 smooting so you can se it all !
And do not think I will come much further with this project, so i have to take a decision soon.
Best regards John
Attachments
waveguide for SB26
this give some idea for a Center Channel [with 2x 5FE120 + 1SB26 ADC and a waveguide - 2 front port - or a big enclosure]
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/open-source-waveguides-for-cnc-3d-printing.318190/
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...7600-3d-printed-waveguides/page36#post1398387
this give some idea for a Center Channel [with 2x 5FE120 + 1SB26 ADC and a waveguide - 2 front port - or a big enclosure]
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/open-source-waveguides-for-cnc-3d-printing.318190/
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...7600-3d-printed-waveguides/page36#post1398387
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Hi Jawen,
Thanks for all the graphs. old and new seem to work reasonably well down to 300 Hz or so. The left speaker maybe has the edge in my eyes
The Right is more confusing, maybe a phase issue. Very aware that you are getting fed up with all this, can i suggest that you pick your favourite or the one that meets the design goals and work it a bit more.
The new crossover is difficult to interpret, I am not sure about the sudden change at 500Hz, how does it measure without the bass connected? Then at least you will know if it is the bass interacting with the nice Xsim midrange response.
As to the dip at 3500 once you have removed the 2 ohm there is only so much the SB26 can give, its a a great tweeter for the money but its max sensitivity is 90 dB,
This could mean a bit of attenuation on the 5Fe120's or a higher efficiency tweeter, but a replacement tweeter may not be a drop in replacement, So I would settle for a bit of attenuation on the mids or maybe pull the 5fe120 response a tad lower past 1Khz.
Possibly if you want to put another 4uF across the midrange 20uF to bring it up to a total of 24 uF, and at the tweeter change the 2 ohms to 1 ohm. If the phase data is correct It wont look brilliant with a droop at 2Khz but listen to it and see if you think it works.
As you have noted listening to Xovers and judging them is really difficult, its pretty much the same as choosing speakers in a shop, Knowing how your speaker measures because you designed it and measured the response isn't going to help. Most people strive for perfection, so knowing you have a dip in the frequency response at X Hz isnt going to naturally help you appreciate your speaker, we have to make some compromises.
Measurement show you the real picture but very much magnified, maybe too much. Remember some people still use 3rd octave room analysis that makes a lot of things look quite smooth.
Find the most enjoyable design ( hopefully you know which one it is) from your recent tests of the last two days then configure both speakers Xover's so that they match to your favourite design and listen to them over the next two weeks. That will give you time to relax and appreciate what you have achieved,. If you don't like them, then during the two weeks I am sure some new ideas will come along.
Putting 4 new drivers into an existing box and not knowing the original loudspeaker parameters was always going to be tricky, A lot of people worry about just changing the tweeter. I think you deserve a badge for integrating two woofers and a tweeter. Sorry we didn't get the bass (basically sub woofer) going to your liking.
Thanks for all the graphs. old and new seem to work reasonably well down to 300 Hz or so. The left speaker maybe has the edge in my eyes
The Right is more confusing, maybe a phase issue. Very aware that you are getting fed up with all this, can i suggest that you pick your favourite or the one that meets the design goals and work it a bit more.
The new crossover is difficult to interpret, I am not sure about the sudden change at 500Hz, how does it measure without the bass connected? Then at least you will know if it is the bass interacting with the nice Xsim midrange response.
As to the dip at 3500 once you have removed the 2 ohm there is only so much the SB26 can give, its a a great tweeter for the money but its max sensitivity is 90 dB,
This could mean a bit of attenuation on the 5Fe120's or a higher efficiency tweeter, but a replacement tweeter may not be a drop in replacement, So I would settle for a bit of attenuation on the mids or maybe pull the 5fe120 response a tad lower past 1Khz.
Possibly if you want to put another 4uF across the midrange 20uF to bring it up to a total of 24 uF, and at the tweeter change the 2 ohms to 1 ohm. If the phase data is correct It wont look brilliant with a droop at 2Khz but listen to it and see if you think it works.
As you have noted listening to Xovers and judging them is really difficult, its pretty much the same as choosing speakers in a shop, Knowing how your speaker measures because you designed it and measured the response isn't going to help. Most people strive for perfection, so knowing you have a dip in the frequency response at X Hz isnt going to naturally help you appreciate your speaker, we have to make some compromises.
Measurement show you the real picture but very much magnified, maybe too much. Remember some people still use 3rd octave room analysis that makes a lot of things look quite smooth.
Find the most enjoyable design ( hopefully you know which one it is) from your recent tests of the last two days then configure both speakers Xover's so that they match to your favourite design and listen to them over the next two weeks. That will give you time to relax and appreciate what you have achieved,. If you don't like them, then during the two weeks I am sure some new ideas will come along.
Putting 4 new drivers into an existing box and not knowing the original loudspeaker parameters was always going to be tricky, A lot of people worry about just changing the tweeter. I think you deserve a badge for integrating two woofers and a tweeter. Sorry we didn't get the bass (basically sub woofer) going to your liking.
Without having made a measurement. Not even an auto calibration via my amp. The basses of the 707 with their system in push pull seem more lenient than on the D590. // For the passage of 2@1 ohm it is on the resistance (Ray)? On my simulation, the change to 0.51 ohms on the resistor helps. Is it a mistake? On the simulated curves not measured, it looks good.// I will really see this story of waveguide too. Many have a substantial gain in quality, directivity, etc. But a bit of woodwork in sight. The brand Revel on its concerta 2 range seems to me to use this waveguide system with sb26adc 😉
https://www.revelspeakers.com/produ...color=Black-USA-Current&cgid=series-concerta2
https://www.revelspeakers.com/produ...color=Black-USA-Current&cgid=series-concerta2