i am creating a new set of 3 way speakers, starting with the bass units. (ground up)
now i know there are so so so many varibles in sound and speaker design, and i am looking to make this as simple as possable because of this.
my plan is basicly this,
1 design and create the bass boxes, 2 design and build the rest
i am using Europe Audio <as my chosen drive unit, (looks simple and good)
now i have a few questions (as always) i know there are so many variables and factors that i would need 1000000words to explain, but simple so
one of these in each cab, tuned to 25hz gives -7db at 30hz (right where my room node is.
vented obviously provides far more low end, but i am finding it hard to design, can someone help me
now i know there are so so so many varibles in sound and speaker design, and i am looking to make this as simple as possable because of this.
my plan is basicly this,
1 design and create the bass boxes, 2 design and build the rest
i am using Europe Audio <as my chosen drive unit, (looks simple and good)
now i have a few questions (as always) i know there are so many variables and factors that i would need 1000000words to explain, but simple so
one of these in each cab, tuned to 25hz gives -7db at 30hz (right where my room node is.
vented obviously provides far more low end, but i am finding it hard to design, can someone help me
You should start with your main unit (or mid), I would but, that's also viable...
sreten opinion is also a very best for your project.
Also what tools are you using, use a software for that simulation of the box.
Keep cool.😎
Very similar (simulation) than for the AE10s, with smaller box obvious.
Attachments
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Hi,
Personally I'd look at the big picture, not that i don't like the Seas driver.
One thing that comes to mind is :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
Low 25Hz tuning is doable if that what you want, but
30Hz is better for both the the Seas and Peerless IMO.
rgds, sreten.
Personally I'd look at the big picture, not that i don't like the Seas driver.
One thing that comes to mind is :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
Low 25Hz tuning is doable if that what you want, but
30Hz is better for both the the Seas and Peerless IMO.
rgds, sreten.
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zux77.jpg at Free Image Hosting <30 hz tuning
isuso.jpg at Free Image Hosting <25hz tuning
now i know it sounds daft and illogical, but i have a feeling the 25 tuning would be better
here is why, the low note i head inalot of music falls at 30hz if tuned to 25hz that will be a controlled note, if tuned to 30hz that note will be at the point where the driver is comming unloaded,
so if i tune it slightly lower it will save it from being unloaded with most music
the lowest notes on a standerd keyboard is 27.5hz
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring/project_ideas/Phys_img024.jpg
so i want it to be able to hint at those frequencys without the driver unloading and flapping about , and i feel the lower tuning will prevent this,
so more controll over the driver around and below the tuning
(i think this makes sence, i find it hard to explain, its just in my mind it does)
however port length is a issue...? when i design the final cabinit at whatever size, is it (example) 3 cubic foot + port area?
have i got the right idea?
also how can i tell what max spl before 35mm xmax is reached?
oh one minor note, Xmax is accadently entered as 6m , i know this doesnt alter the basic sim, but can i say one thing? WOULDNT THAT BE LOVELY if it where true
isuso.jpg at Free Image Hosting <25hz tuning
now i know it sounds daft and illogical, but i have a feeling the 25 tuning would be better
here is why, the low note i head inalot of music falls at 30hz if tuned to 25hz that will be a controlled note, if tuned to 30hz that note will be at the point where the driver is comming unloaded,
so if i tune it slightly lower it will save it from being unloaded with most music
the lowest notes on a standerd keyboard is 27.5hz
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring/project_ideas/Phys_img024.jpg
so i want it to be able to hint at those frequencys without the driver unloading and flapping about , and i feel the lower tuning will prevent this,
so more controll over the driver around and below the tuning
(i think this makes sence, i find it hard to explain, its just in my mind it does)
however port length is a issue...? when i design the final cabinit at whatever size, is it (example) 3 cubic foot + port area?
have i got the right idea?
also how can i tell what max spl before 35mm xmax is reached?
oh one minor note, Xmax is accadently entered as 6m , i know this doesnt alter the basic sim, but can i say one thing? WOULDNT THAT BE LOVELY if it where true
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if anyone ever plays the lowest node on a keyboard 😀
anyway, why not use a real woofer http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/woofers/12-sb34swnrx-s75-6/
i knew that was comming... it does have a nicer xmax, and more surface is more bass,
however i am looking for a balance between all things, or as much as is possable, and i want to make progress so i have my heart and mind set on that bass driver, mid and treble is tbc
so far in the works these three drivers look like they would match well, with a fairly simple crossover, and they are from the same company, so i can be sure that even if there plots arnt accurate they are accurute unto themselfs..
woofer Europe Audio
mid Europe Audio
tweeter Europe Audio
crossing frequencys at a glance 500hz bass to mid and 3000hz mid to tweeter
that will give a slight few db drop in the 1khz to 3khz range, something that i am not fussed about because i like my ears and i dont like to brighter mid,
the tweeter should take over well, and looks flat with a nice slight peek at 1600hz where my hearing faaaddeeesss out
Same MID (SEAS MCA15RCY-H1262) and similar xover. Projet ASTASIA
http://gxiberras.free.fr/hifi/Astasia/Filtre/SPL_Astasia_III_89dB.GIF
http://gxiberras.free.fr/hifi/Astasia/Filtre/filtre_Astasia_III_89dB.GIF
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thankyou very much for that, it looks smooth enouth to me, and most seas domes seem rougthly the same so i might just go with what feels nice. thanks for the x/o map, that will be the biggy for me as it is so far un ucumplished. 3am now. need sleep
a wise man once said, there is nothing new under the sun
a wise man once said, there is nothing new under the sun
i must be slightly mad because it is now 4am and i have ordered the drive units i posted links to above. i have the design in my head and it will look sweet, will try and get it out of my head into paint so i can post it on here, tommorrow
could someone with significant understanding voice there opinion regarding my views to tuning the woofer lower on the previous page
if someone could simulate the box with a better program, or point me in the right direction, i would be gratefull, thankyou
if someone could simulate the box with a better program, or point me in the right direction, i would be gratefull, thankyou
Hi,
The driver is not unloaded at the port frequency, at that frequency
it has a movement minima and then unloads at lower frequencies.
You seem to be mixing up the H1305 and the H1316 parameters.
The H1305 will be fine in ~ 60L to ~ 90L tuned to 25Hz, I'd say 75L.
rgds, sreten.
you will probbaly have to play very loud before you exceed the xmax limit
I'd say 80 liter netto, meaning you should ad the volume of driver, bracing, and port
but 120 liter sealed/closed might be nice too 😀
I'd say 80 liter netto, meaning you should ad the volume of driver, bracing, and port
but 120 liter sealed/closed might be nice too 😀
ah! i most probably had both pdf files open at the same time and got confused, thankyou for pointing that out.
i will re enter the values and post a re-simulation.
thankyou for the information regarding minus-ing the area of the air colum in the port, and the volume of the internal structure of the port and bracing, ... and the driver chassis. maths isnt my strong point, but im sure i will work it out
here is the basic concept of the design and port, and i say basic because it is not to scale or mesured and it is not done in a 3d modeling program that i dont know how to use.
upload images
http://postimage.org/image/i6zxwjoep/
image hosting jpeg
http://postimage.org/image/ixx9g2g5t/
i will post the re-sim tomorrow, i really need sleep tonight...
i will re enter the values and post a re-simulation.
thankyou for the information regarding minus-ing the area of the air colum in the port, and the volume of the internal structure of the port and bracing, ... and the driver chassis. maths isnt my strong point, but im sure i will work it out
here is the basic concept of the design and port, and i say basic because it is not to scale or mesured and it is not done in a 3d modeling program that i dont know how to use.
upload images
http://postimage.org/image/i6zxwjoep/
image hosting jpeg
http://postimage.org/image/ixx9g2g5t/
i will post the re-sim tomorrow, i really need sleep tonight...
Last edited:
ah! i most probably had both pdf files open at the same time and got confused, thankyou for pointing that out.
i will re enter the values and post a re-simulation.
thankyou for the information regarding minus-ing the area of the air colum in the port, and the volume of the internal structure of the port and bracing, ... and the driver chassis. maths isnt my strong point, but im sure i will work it out
here is the basic concept of the design and port, and i say basic because it is not to scale or mesured and it is not done in a 3d modeling program that i dont know how to use.
upload images
http://postimage.org/image/i6zxwjoep/
image hosting jpeg
http://postimage.org/image/ixx9g2g5t/
i will post the re-sim tomorrow, i really need sleep tonight...
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I'm sorry, that's just terrific.
Hi,
Nice drawings ....
Vertically aligned mid/ treble drivers are better.
By all means use a separate box for the mid but
place the tweeter on the top of the bass box,
directly below the mid unit.
I suspect you really don't know the x/o issues.
Lowering the bass unit and the bass/mid x/o
point can bypass the common "floordip" issue.
look at :
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=501582
rgds, sreten.
undefinition (see if nothing else, the excellent FAQs)
The Speaker Building Bible - Thread opened for edits/input. - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com
Zaph|Audio
Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
FRD Consortium tools guide
http://web.archive.org/web/20090902124715/http://geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/DesigningXO.htm
RJB Audio Projects
http://web.archive.org/web/20090902202231/http://geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/
Speaker Design Works
HTGuide Forum - A Guide to HTguide.com Completed Speaker Designs.
A Speaker project
DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
Humble Homemade Hifi
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
The Frugal-Horns Site -- High Performance, Low Cost DIY Horn Designs
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
Music and Design
Great free SPICE Emulator : SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program - TINA-TI - TI Tool Folder
Nice drawings ....
Vertically aligned mid/ treble drivers are better.
By all means use a separate box for the mid but
place the tweeter on the top of the bass box,
directly below the mid unit.
I suspect you really don't know the x/o issues.
Lowering the bass unit and the bass/mid x/o
point can bypass the common "floordip" issue.
look at :
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=501582
rgds, sreten.
undefinition (see if nothing else, the excellent FAQs)
The Speaker Building Bible - Thread opened for edits/input. - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com
Zaph|Audio
Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
FRD Consortium tools guide
http://web.archive.org/web/20090902124715/http://geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/DesigningXO.htm
RJB Audio Projects
http://web.archive.org/web/20090902202231/http://geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/
Speaker Design Works
HTGuide Forum - A Guide to HTguide.com Completed Speaker Designs.
A Speaker project
DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
Humble Homemade Hifi
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
The Frugal-Horns Site -- High Performance, Low Cost DIY Horn Designs
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
Music and Design
Great free SPICE Emulator : SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program - TINA-TI - TI Tool Folder
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ok funny drawing aside...
i will run the risk of the floordip issue, i see what you mean, but there are always trade offs, i want the drivers in close proximity. and i have many reasons why i wouldnt want the port higher on the cabinet, or the driver lower on it
in regards to vertical alighnment, as the mid and tweeter will be happly married in a seperate box, i will have the option of standing that box upright or lying it down. depending on what sounds better and what takes my fancy at the time, vertical will probubly look nicer, and i want all drivers at ear level with the bass a foot or so below ear level
how about the port concept? will the sound be happy if it enters at the top, turns 90 degrees onto the horizontal plane goes forward then does a 180 degree turn and comes out the front?
in other words, is it ok to have a few turns in a port? and for that port to be square? or would i be better off with a strait cylindrical tube?
i will run the risk of the floordip issue, i see what you mean, but there are always trade offs, i want the drivers in close proximity. and i have many reasons why i wouldnt want the port higher on the cabinet, or the driver lower on it
in regards to vertical alighnment, as the mid and tweeter will be happly married in a seperate box, i will have the option of standing that box upright or lying it down. depending on what sounds better and what takes my fancy at the time, vertical will probubly look nicer, and i want all drivers at ear level with the bass a foot or so below ear level
how about the port concept? will the sound be happy if it enters at the top, turns 90 degrees onto the horizontal plane goes forward then does a 180 degree turn and comes out the front?
in other words, is it ok to have a few turns in a port? and for that port to be square? or would i be better off with a strait cylindrical tube?
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