Hello all,
I'm looking to design and build a relatively compact but high end pair of 3-way desktop speakers. Here are a few general criteria I'm working with:
- The height of each speaker should be kept to a minimum (preferably around 5-6")
- I'll plan on using an active crossover and separate amps per driver (high performing class D amplifier kits / designs aren't that difficult to come across and this is my first project so an active crossover gives me a larger tuning window after construction to get things sounding pretty)
As far as driver decision goes, I've got my eyes on the following:
- Tang Band W4 2089 (this seems to give a pretty stunning of low end for the size)
- Dayton Audio RS100P-4 (well reviewed midbass/midrange covered by Zaphs testing)
- Fountek NeoCD3.5H (this might just be my technophile side telling me a ribbon tweeter would be fancy. I originally had the Tymphany XT25TG30-04 holding this spot)
I'm mainly looking for critiques on driver selection so far but anything else would be much appreciated so I'll list my ideas for cabinet design too:
- Since it's a desktop speaker, I figure I can run a transmission line from the Tang Band down and up behind the desk saving hugely on desktop space usage.
- The Dayton will probably be the vented configuration recommended on their website
Any criticism would be much appreciated! Am I insane? Are there better driver choices available for the money? Or am I going about this completely the wrong way?
Thanks all in advance!
I'm looking to design and build a relatively compact but high end pair of 3-way desktop speakers. Here are a few general criteria I'm working with:
- The height of each speaker should be kept to a minimum (preferably around 5-6")
- I'll plan on using an active crossover and separate amps per driver (high performing class D amplifier kits / designs aren't that difficult to come across and this is my first project so an active crossover gives me a larger tuning window after construction to get things sounding pretty)
As far as driver decision goes, I've got my eyes on the following:
- Tang Band W4 2089 (this seems to give a pretty stunning of low end for the size)
- Dayton Audio RS100P-4 (well reviewed midbass/midrange covered by Zaphs testing)
- Fountek NeoCD3.5H (this might just be my technophile side telling me a ribbon tweeter would be fancy. I originally had the Tymphany XT25TG30-04 holding this spot)
I'm mainly looking for critiques on driver selection so far but anything else would be much appreciated so I'll list my ideas for cabinet design too:
- Since it's a desktop speaker, I figure I can run a transmission line from the Tang Band down and up behind the desk saving hugely on desktop space usage.
- The Dayton will probably be the vented configuration recommended on their website
Any criticism would be much appreciated! Am I insane? Are there better driver choices available for the money? Or am I going about this completely the wrong way?
Thanks all in advance!
Serious question: why do you feel the need to make it a 3-way?
A 2-way or even 1-way speaker is enough to cover the full frequency range at satisfying levels.
Chris
A 2-way or even 1-way speaker is enough to cover the full frequency range at satisfying levels.
Chris
First of all, desktop and 3-way don't go well together. If your goal is 5-6" height, that's unrealistic as you can't even fit the drivers on that minimal baffle.
As for the drivers you're proposing, the TB will require a very little closed box and will reach -6dB in the mid 40, so I think it can be OK, otherwise you need a passive radiator to go down further. It is inefficient but in a near-field case it can be acceptable. To be crossed over at 300-400Hz.
The RS100P (different driver than the RS100 reviewed by Zaph), should be a good driver for mid duties, I suggest a closed box, 300-400Hz crossover point a bit stretched but doable.
The Fountek ribbon has no meaning here IMHO. Mid-tweeter center distance will be too high for near-field listening, and moreover I'd rather spend more money on the mid than the tweeter (and not the other way). Find a small faceplate tweeter that can be crossed at 3-3.5KHz.
If you plan to use DSP to cross over the drivers then OK, if not I don't see the point in going active vs passive.
Having said that I once designed a desk speaker using a 4" mid-woofer (TB W4-656) and a 3/4" tweeter (Dayton Audio ND20FA), and I still think that this concept is perfect for the intended purpose, everything else is overkill. As Chris said, even a fullrange can be used.
Ralf
As for the drivers you're proposing, the TB will require a very little closed box and will reach -6dB in the mid 40, so I think it can be OK, otherwise you need a passive radiator to go down further. It is inefficient but in a near-field case it can be acceptable. To be crossed over at 300-400Hz.
The RS100P (different driver than the RS100 reviewed by Zaph), should be a good driver for mid duties, I suggest a closed box, 300-400Hz crossover point a bit stretched but doable.
The Fountek ribbon has no meaning here IMHO. Mid-tweeter center distance will be too high for near-field listening, and moreover I'd rather spend more money on the mid than the tweeter (and not the other way). Find a small faceplate tweeter that can be crossed at 3-3.5KHz.
If you plan to use DSP to cross over the drivers then OK, if not I don't see the point in going active vs passive.
Having said that I once designed a desk speaker using a 4" mid-woofer (TB W4-656) and a 3/4" tweeter (Dayton Audio ND20FA), and I still think that this concept is perfect for the intended purpose, everything else is overkill. As Chris said, even a fullrange can be used.
Ralf
Thank you for the response, Chris. My reasoning was that all two way designs I've heard have been lacking on the bass end. The way I see a set up such as this is it's analogous to a 2.2 system. I find myself listening to a very wide range of music (anything from classical movie scores to electronic dance and most things between the two) and it leaves the songs feeling thin/tinny.
We'll see about this! 😁 My goal is to have the height above the desk in that ballpark. I think arranging the drivers horizontally with some curvature to keep them all pointing relatively direct should make it fairly.
Yes, I thought their transmission line approach would be more suitable here: the line could run down behind the desk and be brought back up underneath the mid (placed to the side of and slightly above the centerline of the TB).
Whoops, I must have been seeing what I wanted to see when reading!
Ok so a Tymphany XT25 style tweeter would be far more applicable.
Oops! That's what I meant. Crossover design looks like a dark art to me as someone who has spent far longer working with digital systems. I'd like to have a system that plays audio then dial that in using my ears.
Thank you! 🙂
Having said that I once designed a desk speaker using a 4" mid-woofer (TB W4-656) and a 3/4" tweeter (Dayton Audio ND20FA), and I still think that this concept is perfect for the intended purpose, everything else is overkill. As Chris said, even a fullrange can be used.
Ralf[/QUOTE]
It looks as if Morel TM 4055-8 would suit your design criteria well along with a 6.5" woofer specialist of some sort that would still have to play well up to 700Hz.
Any chance of throwing some EQ around?
My current desktop speakers are a pair of Kef eggs (HTS3001SE) where I've blocked the port and applied LF boost (like a Linkwitz Transform) to bring up the low end.
Works a treat - they get down to below 40Hz at sensible levels.
Chris
Currently using Wavecor WF138 + Dayton PC105 + Dayton ND20FB as desktop speakers. Awesome Imaging, even if the cabs are a bit large (20L). The Wavecor is NLA, so a good substitute which will also halve the cab size is SB13PFC. Easy drivers to work with, the PC105 will need a notch at ~ 8.5Khz.
I have a desktop experimental 2-way which I can add a sub-woofer to if need be. It is a vented box, 0.56 ft^3 (just under 16 liters) TOTAL. I have two of the newer Mark Audio Pluvia 7PHD [(P7PHD) or I abbreviate it just P7P] sharing the same box. I have it vented and tuned lower than one normally would. I am getting bass all the way down to 40 Hz and it sounds very real! I mention this because these P7P's are REALLY accurate and articulate; something no other driver in this price range can do in MY opinion. I have tried this with several different tweeters; the Vifa/Peerless/Tymphany line of smaller horn tweeters all match up pretty well; I especially like the one with the silk dome. You could put these into two separate boxes (obviously) of about half the volume of my double box and tune the bass to your room or liking; sub MAY NOT be required. These also sound very good in a smaller closed box in which case you would probably want a single sub (if you cross low enough, the sub could be on the floor or elsewhere not on the desktop). If you are remotely interested in more details; PM me or get back to me on this thread.
I forgot to mention; I also have an experimental sub-woofer in that same exact size box also tuned to below 40 Hz. I am using a single SB17CAC35-4. This is probably the LOWEST DISTORTION small woofer available in this price range; great reviews from almost everyone that has heard it or used it! It can also be put into a smaller closed box with bass EQ or boost of some kind.
To fit the criteria of a compact 3-way, why not go with a coax ? Something like the seas L12RE/XFC + a compact sub driver ?
The Dayton Audio RS100P-4 or RS100-4 whichever you use would be a good mid driver for your project. As far as subs go in a 3 way design, the Tang Band lacks a little bit in the sensitivity area as it has a sensitivity of only 80db. My guess is you're looking at drivers on parts express, perhaps a better driver would be something like the Wavecor SW118WA01 with a higher sensitivity rating, otherwise you'll have to look for something else elsewhere. As far as tweeters go, the Fountek NeoCD3.5H is a low wattage, highly sensitive driver and I'm sure perhaps there are better choices than that. If you're persistent about having a ribbon tweeter, I think the Fountek Neo X 2.0 would be a better choice in your application. Perhaps better tweeters for your application would be something in the range of a Peerless DA25BG08-08, DX25BG60-04 or BC25TG15-04, or a Dayton Audio DC28F-8, RST28F-4, or RST28A-4 which all handle far more power than either of the Fountek ribbon tweeters. Of coarse I don't know what amp selection you have in mind and that may have a bearing on the selections of your drivers. Also you mentioned that you have expected limitations on speaker box height of around 5 to 6 inches, what's you limitations on width or depth if any? There could be many things to you can and can't do dependent on size. Also are your plans to have the amps installed inside the speaker cabinet themselves or in a separate enclosure? More info might be needed to make better suggestions toward your project.