Hey all...
Just wanted to check if this rabbit hole I've found myself in has turned me totally crazy, or could there be a glimmer of hope in this temporary moment of insanity.
So I have no past experience with true electronics, never built a speaker in my life, never built a DSP system in SigmaStudio, do have some DIY ability and a logical/analytical mind but for some reason after stumbling onto this forum I do now believe I can build myself a new set of Active Studio Monitors.
After recently admiring the Amphion One25A's, Neumann KH310, EVE Audio SC3070, PDP MUM-10H, Tantrum Angry Box ect, watching videos such as:
I decided those were out of my price range and I'd have to do some saving and wait a while, or what would it cost to build my own...
The idea is for a 8in 3-Way Nearfield Montior, with an externally attached Class D Amp box, DSP (ADAU1452), IO options of Digital/Analogue inputs, push button Preset Profile selection (Flat, Musical, Mid Focused).
A major stumbling block I've come up against in my week long research is a suitable well priced Class D 3-Way amp, that can power 2x100W + 1x200W @4Ohms with low THD. @uriy-ch has the 3-Way 100W board, but that is Digital In only and probably more Hi-Fi focused than my needs.
Then I stumbled across this video:
And again decided I can build my own of course. They would be based off of the TPA3251 board, IO board usingPCM1802 PCM4201 for ADC, Combo XLR/TRS and Toslink In/Out.
I believe I've narrowed the driver selection down as thus:
Opt 1:
Woofer: SB Acoustics SB23NBAC-45-4
Mid Range: SB Acoustics SB15NBAC-35-4
Tweeter: SB Acoustics SB26ADC-C000-4
Crossovers: 250hz and 2kHz
Opt 2:
Woofer: Scan Speak 22W/8534G00
Mid Range: Dayton Audio RS52AN-8
Tweeter: Fountek RD1.0/MeloDavid Be25-8 (undecided all around on this pick)
Crossovers: 500Hz and 4kHz
So what do you think?? Way too ambitious for a first build, or you can do it!!
I guess I'm look for a concensus to tell me I am indeed nuts!! Or as a community I could get the necessary helping hand to make it possible...
Just wanted to check if this rabbit hole I've found myself in has turned me totally crazy, or could there be a glimmer of hope in this temporary moment of insanity.
So I have no past experience with true electronics, never built a speaker in my life, never built a DSP system in SigmaStudio, do have some DIY ability and a logical/analytical mind but for some reason after stumbling onto this forum I do now believe I can build myself a new set of Active Studio Monitors.
After recently admiring the Amphion One25A's, Neumann KH310, EVE Audio SC3070, PDP MUM-10H, Tantrum Angry Box ect, watching videos such as:
I decided those were out of my price range and I'd have to do some saving and wait a while, or what would it cost to build my own...
The idea is for a 8in 3-Way Nearfield Montior, with an externally attached Class D Amp box, DSP (ADAU1452), IO options of Digital/Analogue inputs, push button Preset Profile selection (Flat, Musical, Mid Focused).
A major stumbling block I've come up against in my week long research is a suitable well priced Class D 3-Way amp, that can power 2x100W + 1x200W @4Ohms with low THD. @uriy-ch has the 3-Way 100W board, but that is Digital In only and probably more Hi-Fi focused than my needs.
Then I stumbled across this video:
And again decided I can build my own of course. They would be based off of the TPA3251 board, IO board using
I believe I've narrowed the driver selection down as thus:
Opt 1:
Woofer: SB Acoustics SB23NBAC-45-4
Mid Range: SB Acoustics SB15NBAC-35-4
Tweeter: SB Acoustics SB26ADC-C000-4
Crossovers: 250hz and 2kHz
Opt 2:
Woofer: Scan Speak 22W/8534G00
Mid Range: Dayton Audio RS52AN-8
Tweeter: Fountek RD1.0/MeloDavid Be25-8 (undecided all around on this pick)
Crossovers: 500Hz and 4kHz
So what do you think?? Way too ambitious for a first build, or you can do it!!
I guess I'm look for a concensus to tell me I am indeed nuts!! Or as a community I could get the necessary helping hand to make it possible...
Last edited:
It will be a challenge no doubt.
If you have the ambition, time and tenacity you may be able to do it.
Our friend @vineethkumar01 started a project 4 years ago, and with great questions and feedback, his ongoing curiosity, empirical testing and methodology, managed to build not one, but 3 speakers (if I’m correct) in 4 years!
It’s been a wonderful ride; and we have all enjoyed reading along. It’s over 100 pages long, and as whilst he has learnt from us, many more of us have learned from him!
I would also encourage to you read threads started by
@hifijim . His step-wise decision making and focus is exemplary, and at the end, he documents all his designs for others to build!
They are second to none!
Vineeth and Jim gems (among others) in our community, and definitely increase the SINAD.
You will undoubtedly learn a lot by doing some pre-reading. If sounds boring. That’s because it can be hard.
YouTube videos can make it look easy. Too easy. Thanks to time-lapse video and editing and music, it appears everyone can do it! And in just 20 minutes!
If it was real-time video- no one would watch it.
Goodluck sweat and tears, breaking and cursing. And yes. please ask lots of questions, but don’t forget to RTFM!
Remember, it’s a marathon, not a 100m sprint… are you up for it?
If you have the ambition, time and tenacity you may be able to do it.
Our friend @vineethkumar01 started a project 4 years ago, and with great questions and feedback, his ongoing curiosity, empirical testing and methodology, managed to build not one, but 3 speakers (if I’m correct) in 4 years!
It’s been a wonderful ride; and we have all enjoyed reading along. It’s over 100 pages long, and as whilst he has learnt from us, many more of us have learned from him!
I would also encourage to you read threads started by
@hifijim . His step-wise decision making and focus is exemplary, and at the end, he documents all his designs for others to build!
They are second to none!
Vineeth and Jim gems (among others) in our community, and definitely increase the SINAD.
You will undoubtedly learn a lot by doing some pre-reading. If sounds boring. That’s because it can be hard.
YouTube videos can make it look easy. Too easy. Thanks to time-lapse video and editing and music, it appears everyone can do it! And in just 20 minutes!
If it was real-time video- no one would watch it.
Good
Remember, it’s a marathon, not a 100m sprint… are you up for it?
Last edited:
Sure - give it a go.
Always keep in mind that this is your first project, and when you are finished you will have learned a lot, and hopefully had a satisfying experience. But you will also be very aware of many things which you will want to do differently on your second project, which will in turn lead to a third project...
DIY speaker design/crafting is a journey of discovery. Each new project will be better than the previous, and you will learn something new. Making accurate repeatable measurements is one of the most challenging aspects of this hobby. If you are willing to spend some money on a good test microphone and some other test equipment, your knowledge and ability will progress faster.
@tktran303 mentions reading the technical literature. Designing a speaker is an engineering project. Even if you are not an engineer, you will need to think like one, and that means reading papers and books. If you don't have time or patience for this, and you want to simply complete a single project and have a really nice speaker, then I recommend building an established kit, or finding a well regarded active monitor on the used market...
I hope you give it a go. This is a very rewarding hobby, and the people you get to know on this forum are really cool. People are quick to share what they know and help you out.
j.
Thanks @tktran303 I've definitely been doing a fair bit of reading and in particular @hifijim 3-Way Speaker build thread, which is where I've drawn some inspiration from for sure.
Not sure I can wait 4 years though, that is some going!!
Sprinter by trade, never been great with long distance, but I'm ready to give it a go for sure!!
I've literally just this evening sold my ECM800, which I was planning on upgrading. I was going to get the Sonarworks calibrated mic (seems like a version of the ECM800), but is that sufficient or should I be looking at something else (bearing in mind it's not an infinite budget)?
Ok first one...
VituixCAD, so I've read that it's not really meant for use with manufacturer's data, more so for real life build measurements.
How am I supposed to know if I'm on the right track with my driver selection if I can't "simulate" the relationship to my picks?
Under Tools...
For woofers-
You can use Enclosure to simulate (sub)woofers in real cabinets ie. sealed, bass reflex, passive radiator etc) using their TS parameters,
For woofers, midrange and tweeters,
You can use Diffraction to simulate the effects of idealized drivers (flat piston, circular) of different shaped baffles, and the effect of moving their position on the baffle (Diffraction tool), and the effect of the baffle shape/dimensions on on-axis response at 1m, 10m etc (-> ie. "4pi" or "anechoic response" ) instead of a baffle of infinitely large dimensions eg. winISD (-> 2pi, or "infinite baffle" response).
For midranges and tweeters-
You may use SPL Trace as a helper tool to trace the manufacturer's frequency response (usual on standardized size "IEC" baffle, and at limited off axis eg. 30/60 degrees), since most drivers are not flat (generally concave or convex) and even the flat ones have peculiarities in their vibrational behavior (vibroacoustics, micro acoustics) they will not behave very close to their simulations, particularly in sound radiation in 3 dimensions (off-axis response)
So it is not particularly use to simulate their off axis response responses, and the higher you go in frequency, the higher the level of imprecision.
One of the powers of VituixCAD2 is the ability to work with measurements in both horizontal AND vertical planes for the complete 360 degrees.
So for this reason, once you get your drivers, you need to mount them in your closure and take actual measurements to work with.
This is what @hifijim is talking about. Learning to take good measurements is one of the first steps.
In the future, we may be able to simulate further- simulate your speaker in your room, complete with auralization. (synthesis of how it may sound from a particular position, via headphones) eg. Treble Technologies
But for now, you'll still get to cut some timber (or print some plastic/machine some aluminium), measure, design listen, rinse and repeat...
Print this as a book- or sent it to your e-book, and make it your bedtime reading:
https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/...20.html#Checklist_for_designing_a_loudspeaker
For woofers-
You can use Enclosure to simulate (sub)woofers in real cabinets ie. sealed, bass reflex, passive radiator etc) using their TS parameters,
For woofers, midrange and tweeters,
You can use Diffraction to simulate the effects of idealized drivers (flat piston, circular) of different shaped baffles, and the effect of moving their position on the baffle (Diffraction tool), and the effect of the baffle shape/dimensions on on-axis response at 1m, 10m etc (-> ie. "4pi" or "anechoic response" ) instead of a baffle of infinitely large dimensions eg. winISD (-> 2pi, or "infinite baffle" response).
For midranges and tweeters-
You may use SPL Trace as a helper tool to trace the manufacturer's frequency response (usual on standardized size "IEC" baffle, and at limited off axis eg. 30/60 degrees), since most drivers are not flat (generally concave or convex) and even the flat ones have peculiarities in their vibrational behavior (vibroacoustics, micro acoustics) they will not behave very close to their simulations, particularly in sound radiation in 3 dimensions (off-axis response)
So it is not particularly use to simulate their off axis response responses, and the higher you go in frequency, the higher the level of imprecision.
One of the powers of VituixCAD2 is the ability to work with measurements in both horizontal AND vertical planes for the complete 360 degrees.
So for this reason, once you get your drivers, you need to mount them in your closure and take actual measurements to work with.
This is what @hifijim is talking about. Learning to take good measurements is one of the first steps.
In the future, we may be able to simulate further- simulate your speaker in your room, complete with auralization. (synthesis of how it may sound from a particular position, via headphones) eg. Treble Technologies
But for now, you'll still get to cut some timber (or print some plastic/machine some aluminium), measure, design listen, rinse and repeat...
Print this as a book- or sent it to your e-book, and make it your bedtime reading:
https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/...20.html#Checklist_for_designing_a_loudspeaker
Ok…..so the real first question…….could you or should you?
Why a near field studio monitor?……why a 3 way?…….why active?
Why a near field studio monitor?……why a 3 way?…….why active?
This is a very good guide to making good measurements.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-spinoramas-with-rew-and-vituixcad.21860/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-spinoramas-with-rew-and-vituixcad.21860/
[ 2 cents worth ]
I have heard nothing but good reports about SB Acoustics drivers 🙂
I have heard nothing but good reports about SB Acoustics drivers 🙂
So could I: I mean anything is possible right?? should I: this is the question I'm trying to answer, a lot of time and effort required. But I do feel like I need a challenge and a challenge it would be...
Nearfield: They're for a small room 25m3, generally used while sitting at a desk for both producing music and listening.
3-Way: I have currently have an old pair of Yamaha H50's with a KRK 10" Sub, the Sub is a bit too much for the room and I wanted an all-in-one solution.
Active: Small room, don't want to find or make space for additional hardware to power the speakers, alot more efficient mounted directly imo.
As long as you know you gonna fail the first attempt, it's fine to be overly ambitious. But if you keep trying and learn from each failure it can be a crash course in speaker design and end up wit a good result. It happened before. Just realise that it's not as easy as it looks to make a studio monitor. And expensive drivers are not a receipe to a garanteed success, skills and knowledge is way more important than what driver and so.
The "worst" (or best) would be to realize that a nearfield monitor can easily be a 5-6 inch-woofer 2-way...
So with near field monitoring in mind, you're going to have to consider the driver layout to keep the listening axis consistent with your working position. This likely results in a vertical midrange/tweeter section and the woofer to the side so a wider overall profile than say a 2 way with a sub or a two way that can reach low enough to not need a sub.
I'm an engineer by trade and a two way has always worked better for me as the low frequency cancellations in a near field triangle combined with the suckout from the desktop bounce make low end mixing decisions nearly impossible. My sub is nearfield and placed behind by monitor and uses two 6.5" drivers in a sealed configuration with an F3 of 35hz. As a stand alone 3 way, you really can't achieve time alignment from the out flanking woofers which would likely be crossed over in the lower midrange........that's a compromise IME where as a two way can cover the entire midrange through mid bass region quite well in the near field. if you were talking mid field monitoring for clients and guests to share in the mixdown process, i'd say three way makes sense.
Now remember........for production, every step of ADDA matters where sample rate is concerned so be sure your monitor's active DSP processing sample rate matches your written files. In this regard, ATC still uses analog processing in their multi way active monitoring systems and true class AB amplification. From a DIY stand point for monitoring purposes, i'd consider the above before making any moves. This is part of the could i/should i debate which comes down to goals in any DIY effort.
Best of luck........IME the 3 way exercise is more could i than should i for your purpose
These are the layout's I've currently got mocked up, but you think a 2.1 would be a better fit for the purpose as well as objectively easier to achieve...
I was thinking of crossing at around 250 - 500Hz, would this help mitigate this issue or no?
I waste a bit of money and time, but gain in knowledge and experience I guess...
Yes, my current setup
You're looking at the Neumann KH310 it seems (who took that layout from the Klein & Hummel O300 when they took over that company). Copying that design is not easy, but it's a working design. That monitor is one of the best nearfields arround in my opinion. But to get there will be a journey, and i doubt you will have a monitor that is that good at the end. But it could become a good speaker. Maybe start to study how they did it, That speaker is tested and analysed by a lot of people.
A part of why this design works is that the tweeter is waveguided and that there is a lot of processing going on. It's done analog (active), but in your case i would suggest dsp processing, it's easier to do and today it can be better than any analog system for a very clean neutral speaker. They use dome mids but that is not an essential thing, this could also be a small cone mid.
The drivers they use are oem (seas tweeter, atc mid dome and PHL woofer), so you can't get them. the mid dome replacment will be the most difficult to find, for tweeters and woofers you have a lot of options. Certainly if you use dsp.
A part of why this design works is that the tweeter is waveguided and that there is a lot of processing going on. It's done analog (active), but in your case i would suggest dsp processing, it's easier to do and today it can be better than any analog system for a very clean neutral speaker. They use dome mids but that is not an essential thing, this could also be a small cone mid.
The drivers they use are oem (seas tweeter, atc mid dome and PHL woofer), so you can't get them. the mid dome replacment will be the most difficult to find, for tweeters and woofers you have a lot of options. Certainly if you use dsp.
😊 that was an inspiration for sure... The other is obviously the AmphionOne25A 😎
If I can get =>60% of it, that would be a great achievement...
Yes, that was the plan... 👍
Any links??