Hi all...
Can someone help explain to me the difference between 2nd and 3rd order boxes etc...????
If I am designing a 3-way cabinet would I use a 3rd order closed box..???
New to all this as you can tell.
Thanks
Can someone help explain to me the difference between 2nd and 3rd order boxes etc...????
If I am designing a 3-way cabinet would I use a 3rd order closed box..???
New to all this as you can tell.
Thanks
Nth order is just the rolloff slope of the frequency response.
Sealed boxes are 2nd order systems, unless you add components that alter the slope. For example, some sealed box designs use large series capacitors that make it a 3rd order system.
Chris
Sealed boxes are 2nd order systems, unless you add components that alter the slope. For example, some sealed box designs use large series capacitors that make it a 3rd order system.
Chris
A second order box is essentially closed box. 12dB/octave rolloff.
A fourth order box is a steeper reflex. One with a port. 24dB/octave rolloff.
Somewhere in the middle is aperiodic or damped reflex. Think of it as a reflex with a sock stuffed in the port. 18dB/octave.
Thing is that the room plays havoc with bass loading. In practise Closed Box aligns with room gain to produce a fairly flat result. Reflex has a tendency to boom on bass. Especially if it goes deep.
What it boils down to is that BIG REFLEX SPEAKERS sound BOOMY in small rooms. 🙂
A fourth order box is a steeper reflex. One with a port. 24dB/octave rolloff.
Somewhere in the middle is aperiodic or damped reflex. Think of it as a reflex with a sock stuffed in the port. 18dB/octave.
Thing is that the room plays havoc with bass loading. In practise Closed Box aligns with room gain to produce a fairly flat result. Reflex has a tendency to boom on bass. Especially if it goes deep.
What it boils down to is that BIG REFLEX SPEAKERS sound BOOMY in small rooms. 🙂
Thanks...that clears it up a bit. I'm trying to use WinSpeakerz to help design this thing but it only lets me put in 1 driver at a time..? So how can I determine the best box size / shape by doing 1 speaker at a time..? Not to mention when it gets inot crossovers....now I'm really lost..🙂
Hi,
The box is determined by the bass unit only.
Sealed is 2nd order, vented 4th order.
3rd order has a series bass capacitor.
Choice of the alignment depends on driver and box size.
rgds, sreten.
I'll repeat you should follow what I suggested in the other thread.
Go top down from a good design, than try bottom up from nowhere.
The box is determined by the bass unit only.
Sealed is 2nd order, vented 4th order.
3rd order has a series bass capacitor.
Choice of the alignment depends on driver and box size.
rgds, sreten.
I'll repeat you should follow what I suggested in the other thread.
Go top down from a good design, than try bottom up from nowhere.
Normally I would do just as you suggest...but part of the fun of this is learning...🙂
You see...you and others here already know this stuff like the back of your hand...but you started somewhere right.?
If I start from the ground up this helps me learn as I go....and when I have completed them I will be that much more knowledgeable for the next time around.
I find for ME...this is the best method to learn...and per your advice...I really think this way I can design my own crossover and build it based on the overall design. I'm in no rush to get these done...so time is not an issue.
You see...you and others here already know this stuff like the back of your hand...but you started somewhere right.?
If I start from the ground up this helps me learn as I go....and when I have completed them I will be that much more knowledgeable for the next time around.
I find for ME...this is the best method to learn...and per your advice...I really think this way I can design my own crossover and build it based on the overall design. I'm in no rush to get these done...so time is not an issue.
Hi,
If you want to work it all out for yourself I will desist
in posting in your threads, but with the caveat you
can't work it all out yourself, without looking at what
other people are doing and making sense of it.
I started a very long time ago with a good grounding.
You have no idea how much you need to know to sort
the wheat from the chaff on your own, many years.
The fact is I'm interested in all the details, why I know
so much, but without the real interest your scuppered.
Personally in your shoes I'd build the ZDT3.5 , and
concentrate on optimising the cabinet, a real skill on
its own, given you seem to have great build choices.
See the FAQ's here :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
rgds, sreten.
If you want to work it all out for yourself I will desist
in posting in your threads, but with the caveat you
can't work it all out yourself, without looking at what
other people are doing and making sense of it.
I started a very long time ago with a good grounding.
You have no idea how much you need to know to sort
the wheat from the chaff on your own, many years.
The fact is I'm interested in all the details, why I know
so much, but without the real interest your scuppered.
Personally in your shoes I'd build the ZDT3.5 , and
concentrate on optimising the cabinet, a real skill on
its own, given you seem to have great build choices.
See the FAQ's here :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
rgds, sreten.
I never said I want to work it out myself...? What I said was i want to start from scratch instead of using an existing design. More fun to start from the beginning and learn the basics. I have looked at design you directed me to and it doesn't help me understand completely.
Not sure why you are taking this all so personal...?
Not sure why you are taking this all so personal...?
Hi,
Nothing personal. what's the difference between starting
from scratch and working it out yourself ? Nothing.
rgds, sreten.
Nothing personal. what's the difference between starting
from scratch and working it out yourself ? Nothing.
rgds, sreten.
The difference is...I want the advice from the veterans on this forum such as yourself. But i don't want the advice to be simply go build these other speakers and leave us alone...not much help there.
So....if your intention is to direct me elsewhere....then please don't reply. i respect that you know what your doing...but your not helping me in this case.
So....if your intention is to direct me elsewhere....then please don't reply. i respect that you know what your doing...but your not helping me in this case.
Get yourself Dickason's Loudspeaker Design cookbook. I think Amazon carries it. It's one of the 'bibles' of loudspeaker design. Read it thoroughly and then ask your questions here. I can't help but think you're being a bit lazy and instead of doing the spadework to begin to learn speaker design, you want your hand held.
Here's another good source of information that's free.
The Speaker Building Bible
Here's another good source of information that's free.
The Speaker Building Bible
First of all....this is all new to me...and in some way your right. I haven't read any books. But....I've begun my research and the only reason to join this forum was to speed up the process. I wouldn't have guessed I would get so much resistance to help a newbie. Is this an audiodiy forum....or an audiophile snob hangout..? Excuse me for asking any newbie questions from you audio experts.
It's not snobbery, it is experienced people who know just how much work it is, trying to guide you in a direction that will minimize your frustration 🙂
If you haven't already have a look at the designing crossovers without measurement thread. That will give you an initial impression of it's not quite so simple. In reality that is only just scratching the surface.
I think sometimes that people lose sight of the fact that you can make something reasonably decent without years of experience. Something that the maker will be quite happy with, up until they hear something that has been really well designed, at which point it will suddenly sound very lacking.
Tony.
If you haven't already have a look at the designing crossovers without measurement thread. That will give you an initial impression of it's not quite so simple. In reality that is only just scratching the surface.
I think sometimes that people lose sight of the fact that you can make something reasonably decent without years of experience. Something that the maker will be quite happy with, up until they hear something that has been really well designed, at which point it will suddenly sound very lacking.
Tony.
Hi,
There is not a chance in hell a thread in a forum would attempt
to justify the advice given to a newbie on a newbies terms.
Its not that I'm not helping you, you don't want to be helped.
You're not prepared to take on advice from years of experience
that is being specifically tailored towards you and your situation.
You haven't read the FAQ's I suggested earlier ? Its nothing
to do with do this and go away, its do this and ask questions
about it, at least there then is something concrete to discuss.
Strikes me you don't take advice at face value, you
personalise some motive to stick to your guns.
rgds, sreten.
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