We indeed live in a world of futility and vanity. Thanks TV and glamour magazines. Quick! buy what you do NOT need! And what you do not need is very expensive.😱
That's why I love to immerse myself - up to my ears 😀 - in music coming from a tube amp.
Serge
That's why I love to immerse myself - up to my ears 😀 - in music coming from a tube amp.
Serge
"Apex and others needed the switching speed of the 2N2222A in a larger package. So, after 2,219 mods, the 2N2219 TO-5, was born. "
reading the rest of your posts, it seems that you are not joking and are pushing that as truth 😱😱
reading the rest of your posts, it seems that you are not joking and are pushing that as truth 😱😱
Ivey, I do not know what to think. However, the military does get things first, and they do keep them secret, until years later. I am not surprised at all that the military developed devices in the 1950's, as we know that they had silicon devices in the '50's even introduced to the public, I think by TI, first.
However, our JEDEC number system is serial in order, and the 2219-2222 devices, specifically, must have come out after the 2N697, I should think.
However, insiders might have had access to the 2222 type geometry, before its public introduction. It would perhaps be traceable to its invention date for the 'star' process.
However, our JEDEC number system is serial in order, and the 2219-2222 devices, specifically, must have come out after the 2N697, I should think.
However, insiders might have had access to the 2222 type geometry, before its public introduction. It would perhaps be traceable to its invention date for the 'star' process.
Well you ought to, with your extended knowledge of early discrete devices!
Two thousand two hundred and nineteen iterations of design (this on 1 or 2 inch planar wafers) to get from a 2n2222A to a 2n2219 ????
Look in any early book: the same process and die, but in a bigger package.
This is all pure ** and fantasy. What does that say about his other comments?
Cliff, I tend to withhold judgement, because I often introduce concepts that are laughed at here, without real understanding or proof, on the part of my detractors. What is the difference, anyway?
Thank you Ivey.
Please keep sharing.
Those of us who are not as young as we once were really appreciate it.
Please keep sharing.
Those of us who are not as young as we once were really appreciate it.
Sonidos
The code that you are asking about is a "manufactures code". The one that you are listing is new and is not on the list that I have. My list is very old
Tubes/Transistors Code
---------------------------------- ----
Amperex (USA) 111
Bendix 125
DuMont 158
Motorola 185
General Electric Co (USA) 188
Hytron (CBS-Hytron) 210
Philco 260
RCA (Radio Corp of America) 274
Raytheon 280
Sylvania (Hygrade Sylvania Corp) 312
Tung-Sol 322
Western Electric 336
Westinghouse 337
Zenith Radio Corp (CRT's) 343
Delco 466
RDR (Radio Development & Research) 924
Texas Instruments 980
That all that I can tell you.
Cliff, I will get that information for you, as soon as I can. I do not know why it was never known before. It is much like the old British system, where their tubes/valves were marked by its development trials. Like CV807. Where CV= common valve and 807, is 807 mods or trials of a tetrode, with a 5 pin base, plate cap on top.
Take Care
Ivey
The code that you are asking about is a "manufactures code". The one that you are listing is new and is not on the list that I have. My list is very old
Tubes/Transistors Code
---------------------------------- ----
Amperex (USA) 111
Bendix 125
DuMont 158
Motorola 185
General Electric Co (USA) 188
Hytron (CBS-Hytron) 210
Philco 260
RCA (Radio Corp of America) 274
Raytheon 280
Sylvania (Hygrade Sylvania Corp) 312
Tung-Sol 322
Western Electric 336
Westinghouse 337
Zenith Radio Corp (CRT's) 343
Delco 466
RDR (Radio Development & Research) 924
Texas Instruments 980
That all that I can tell you.
Cliff, I will get that information for you, as soon as I can. I do not know why it was never known before. It is much like the old British system, where their tubes/valves were marked by its development trials. Like CV807. Where CV= common valve and 807, is 807 mods or trials of a tetrode, with a 5 pin base, plate cap on top.
Take Care
Ivey
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Sonidos
The "manufacture codes", was the DOD's way of keeping control over the military grade equipment they purchased. If something was wrong or went wrong with the equipment. They could trace it back to its maker.
Today it is very hard to do that, because they are abandoning the system for the purpose of cutting cost. And they are "open purchasing" equipment and materials that do not meet jedec or jan specs. But UL specs..
Soon, things are going to get real ugly.
Take Care
Ivey
The "manufacture codes", was the DOD's way of keeping control over the military grade equipment they purchased. If something was wrong or went wrong with the equipment. They could trace it back to its maker.
Today it is very hard to do that, because they are abandoning the system for the purpose of cutting cost. And they are "open purchasing" equipment and materials that do not meet jedec or jan specs. But UL specs..
Soon, things are going to get real ugly.
Take Care
Ivey
If Chinese military wishes to steal some very new super-duper-secret US Airforce aircraft they most probably will find "Made in China" stamped on each and every detail.
Thank you for codes, I have some very strange transistors that I did not know where to find an info about them.
With a one week fab turn time they would have had to start around June 1913 and burned the midnight oil to reject the first 2221.
OK guys, lets get this thread back on topic.
Ivey, thanks on the codes
There are folks selling Motorola 2n2222a on ebay, but I can't see a Moto logo on them save for one fella. These seem fishy so I'm best staying away from those.
There are parts distributors listing JANTX2n2222a circa '88 so they must want a heckuva a price for them.
Thanks, mods for keeping this moving in the right direction.
There are folks selling Motorola 2n2222a on ebay, but I can't see a Moto logo on them save for one fella. These seem fishy so I'm best staying away from those.
There are parts distributors listing JANTX2n2222a circa '88 so they must want a heckuva a price for them.
Thanks, mods for keeping this moving in the right direction.
Sonidos
The transistors (if they are real) should have the JAN number and under it there will be a "date code number". Like 6423 or 7535.
6423..., means 1964, week #23 of that year.
If it does not have that. They are fake JAN units. Also the makers code should be on the side or the bottom. Some have a letter at the bottom.
Take Care
Ivey
The transistors (if they are real) should have the JAN number and under it there will be a "date code number". Like 6423 or 7535.
6423..., means 1964, week #23 of that year.
If it does not have that. They are fake JAN units. Also the makers code should be on the side or the bottom. Some have a letter at the bottom.
Take Care
Ivey
I missed the OT but please mods have some sense, some of these statements are so stupid they don't pass anyone's muster. 2222 mods before release give me a break. Harry Lee or Jim Williams would lose their coffee over these comments. People state complete crap as truth politely and it stands.
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Mr. Wurcer,
I too enjoy a good debate and setting the facts straight. I would appreciate some clarification on this '2222' issue since I spent a few minutes searching the web and it still wasn't clear to me.
My comment reflects my hope that this thread doesn't descend into bashing. I am but an amateur and all 'pros' and 'near pros' have improved my knowledge greatly.🙂
I too enjoy a good debate and setting the facts straight. I would appreciate some clarification on this '2222' issue since I spent a few minutes searching the web and it still wasn't clear to me.
My comment reflects my hope that this thread doesn't descend into bashing. I am but an amateur and all 'pros' and 'near pros' have improved my knowledge greatly.🙂
Trust your own common sense. I respect you as an intelligent contributor, take a comment like that and just think about it. JAN part numbers were assigned by how many revs the die had.
Is that phono amp still top secret or can you share it with us?
I have some 2N4401s from Fairchild Semi, do they use the same process or should I try to find Motorola ones?
Tom
I have some 2N4401s from Fairchild Semi, do they use the same process or should I try to find Motorola ones?
Tom
The phono preamp can be found here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/158918-2n2222a-phono-preamp.html?highlight=preamp
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/158918-2n2222a-phono-preamp.html?highlight=preamp
Sonidos
Scott is correct. You be concerned when someone offers something as the truth.
But like being in school, you need to either believe your instructors or call them a liar. But just because you or others are not armed with the true knowledge that someone else is, is no reason to think that they are feeding you bull.
There were many companies making transistors in the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's and even more of them them today. Many of them, like Texas Instrutment, had leased the rights from Bell, paying them $25,000.00 to use their research and discoveries; when Bell still held the patten rights.
2N numbering is for the mods or tries that a company went through to qualify it transistor for a 2N JAN number. There many transistors that was used by the Military that did not make it. But the Military ensured that there was a standby transistor available.
I am sending to a Pdf file to read. But first I want to try to explain what you are looking at.
2N numbering was very costly to transistor makers. House numbers was by far a easier route to travel. But it restricted your sales. Because it cost a lot to make a transistor. This you see when read the file.
Interchangeable transistors was the way to go.
The file will talk about the transistors that I was involved with
2N404
2N496/7
R212
2N13XX series
JAN numbers, are manufacture identification code. The numbers following the N. It indicates the numbers of mods, test mods, and every other element or change that took place with that transistor's development.
When that transistor has pass it's JEDEC and JAN inspections. It is given that number. The letter following that number, indicates an improvement of that transistor series.
Makers of transistors always starts out with a finish product and add or subtract the doping, the connections and the thickness of the wafers. It is never a complete rebuild, unless it is needed.
The 2N404, was used by me in designing the 1MC system for the 594 class submarines. All the osc, amps, relay drivers, pre amps, and control circuits.
You will see 2N496/7 transistors, they are silicon transistors. Build in 1958, for the Military. TO-5 case. They was used as regulators.
This is what I tried to tell people that Motorola, did not make the first 2N2222. They discovered how to make it cheaper, for mass production. The transistors was to costly back then.
The R212, was used because me had to get the Polaris submarines out to sea, and Texas Instrument had the transistor, but could not pass JEDEC or JAN. But we needed it, so we used it. But 2N13XX series transistors were made available once they passed JEDEC and JAN.
Interchangeabilities, was the key to JAN.
I am tired that people keep kicking and kicking. I have the information, it is buried in my basement and garage, with tons of other documents and papers. To dig them out, will take days. So, when I am looking through it and I come across it. I will post it.
Take Care
Ivey
Scott is correct. You be concerned when someone offers something as the truth.
But like being in school, you need to either believe your instructors or call them a liar. But just because you or others are not armed with the true knowledge that someone else is, is no reason to think that they are feeding you bull.
There were many companies making transistors in the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's and even more of them them today. Many of them, like Texas Instrutment, had leased the rights from Bell, paying them $25,000.00 to use their research and discoveries; when Bell still held the patten rights.
2N numbering is for the mods or tries that a company went through to qualify it transistor for a 2N JAN number. There many transistors that was used by the Military that did not make it. But the Military ensured that there was a standby transistor available.
I am sending to a Pdf file to read. But first I want to try to explain what you are looking at.
2N numbering was very costly to transistor makers. House numbers was by far a easier route to travel. But it restricted your sales. Because it cost a lot to make a transistor. This you see when read the file.
Interchangeable transistors was the way to go.
The file will talk about the transistors that I was involved with
2N404
2N496/7
R212
2N13XX series
JAN numbers, are manufacture identification code. The numbers following the N. It indicates the numbers of mods, test mods, and every other element or change that took place with that transistor's development.
When that transistor has pass it's JEDEC and JAN inspections. It is given that number. The letter following that number, indicates an improvement of that transistor series.
Makers of transistors always starts out with a finish product and add or subtract the doping, the connections and the thickness of the wafers. It is never a complete rebuild, unless it is needed.
The 2N404, was used by me in designing the 1MC system for the 594 class submarines. All the osc, amps, relay drivers, pre amps, and control circuits.
You will see 2N496/7 transistors, they are silicon transistors. Build in 1958, for the Military. TO-5 case. They was used as regulators.
This is what I tried to tell people that Motorola, did not make the first 2N2222. They discovered how to make it cheaper, for mass production. The transistors was to costly back then.
The R212, was used because me had to get the Polaris submarines out to sea, and Texas Instrument had the transistor, but could not pass JEDEC or JAN. But we needed it, so we used it. But 2N13XX series transistors were made available once they passed JEDEC and JAN.
Interchangeabilities, was the key to JAN.
I am tired that people keep kicking and kicking. I have the information, it is buried in my basement and garage, with tons of other documents and papers. To dig them out, will take days. So, when I am looking through it and I come across it. I will post it.
Take Care
Ivey
Looks very much like a mic pre I developed in 1970'th, but I used medium power transistor on microcurrents on input, that's why all 3 transistors were PNP. It was KT626 designed in our Institute of Semiconductor Devices, it did not have yet a number, just a project code name, if I remember right it was called Tropa (Russian for Trail).
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