The cut off freq is at about 3.5Hz with the 220uF on.
Speaking of electrolytic, by a scoping the response of an electrolytic fed by a signal generator shows distortions at high frequencies.
Of course a Film cap due to the low and more constant impedance would do better in general.
Overall distortion is less than an electrolytic.
I guess that a high value as the 220uF is only used to improve bottom end response.
Nevertheless the higher the capacitance on the electrolytic and the higher the non-linearities of it...so it's kinda of a turn over 🙂
the better cap is NO CAP AT ALL!
In this sense i was trying to figure out whether the Q15 stage might be cut off, together with the 2 coupling caps, or not.
Apparently it seems to be only used as inverting stage.
NP said that by removing this off the phono wouldn't properly work anymore, but i don't know if i explained my self good enough when i have asked him this thing.
What do you think?
Speaking of electrolytic, by a scoping the response of an electrolytic fed by a signal generator shows distortions at high frequencies.
Of course a Film cap due to the low and more constant impedance would do better in general.
Overall distortion is less than an electrolytic.
I guess that a high value as the 220uF is only used to improve bottom end response.
Nevertheless the higher the capacitance on the electrolytic and the higher the non-linearities of it...so it's kinda of a turn over 🙂
the better cap is NO CAP AT ALL!
In this sense i was trying to figure out whether the Q15 stage might be cut off, together with the 2 coupling caps, or not.
Apparently it seems to be only used as inverting stage.
NP said that by removing this off the phono wouldn't properly work anymore, but i don't know if i explained my self good enough when i have asked him this thing.
What do you think?
Stefanoo said:
I've been using Black Gates extensively in my project and can honestly say that there's no clear answer to that question.
Black Gates either work or don't work, and then most any cap is better.
BG STD tend to be kinda bright, but with very good resolution. FKs add certain coloration and I can tolerate them only in very speific applications. N type caps are much warmer, but if missuesed they throw a veil that is not very nice, they also excell in "image density" unmatched by any other cap.
NX are lower grade of N, can sometimes be more user friendly.
Generally, BGs are my preferred choice, but very often I find that in specific location of the circuit other caps tend to be better.
Unless you try for yourself, nobody can tell you how it will work for you.
I posted some info previously:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=574431#post574431
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=581230#post581230
BTW, I've built Ono with very good parts, but the results were mixed bag and the circuit needs way more tunning: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1123226#post1123226
Hi peter,
thank you very much for your post.
I have been reading all these things in the past days as I was making researches on the forum and elsewhere.
I found interesting your opinion on the 100uF F BG cap.
I was actually going to go for 1000uF 50V std BG cap that you found nice but not as good as the F one.
the only thing is that 100uF seems to be a small capacitance whasoever.
i might go fir 4 of them per rail.
Does the paralleling of the 100uF BG F, up to your experience, degrade the "quality" of the just one 100uF?
...Of course...this heads up the price.
But i think that more capacitance brings up better performance.
Nevertheless, I do do agree with you...on a post i read somewhere where you where talking about comparison between having a low capacitance against big.
I think the sound is not so bright, clear, free as you think.
Big capacity makes sound slower and somehow more muffle.
I would say that something like 2000uF or so is more than enough for a preamplifier.
Well..with the 100uF times 4.....eheheh......it's not a huge capacitance i would say...but hopefully will carry on good ripple rejection on a 100mA shunt PSU design.
I think that All Fet shunt design is the best choice for preamplifier.
I tried it on and found it far superior to normal series regulators.
With regard to your ONO's experience i am surprised.
You used premium stuff (i was already planning on using same resistors ...actually the naked S102 by texas and auricap caps) and result should have been better.
Conversely,I noticed, you powered it up with batteries.
I think batteries offer a dull sound.
I would have suggested a nice and good PSU to fully evaluate it, but i am sure you tried something else as well.
Compliment for your turntable and your tonearm.
Bang! a sme V.....the best tonearm on the market i would say.
A real reference.
and i notices some that looks like bow technologies CD Player or something very good indeed...plus a Mark Levinson....wow....ehehe
You got better things to evaluate your project that most of the guys here (me included!!!).
Good for you.
Anyways just last thing......I would like to trick the current mirror.
I will use a very high grade voltage reference instead of the regular LED.
More stability better noise performance.
I don't know if you have experience with this and you tried something like this on or not.
in case, if you want to share your experience would be great.
in the meantime thanks a lot for your infos always greeeeaaatly useful.
thank you very much for your post.
I have been reading all these things in the past days as I was making researches on the forum and elsewhere.
I found interesting your opinion on the 100uF F BG cap.
I was actually going to go for 1000uF 50V std BG cap that you found nice but not as good as the F one.
the only thing is that 100uF seems to be a small capacitance whasoever.
i might go fir 4 of them per rail.
Does the paralleling of the 100uF BG F, up to your experience, degrade the "quality" of the just one 100uF?
...Of course...this heads up the price.
But i think that more capacitance brings up better performance.
Nevertheless, I do do agree with you...on a post i read somewhere where you where talking about comparison between having a low capacitance against big.
I think the sound is not so bright, clear, free as you think.
Big capacity makes sound slower and somehow more muffle.
I would say that something like 2000uF or so is more than enough for a preamplifier.
Well..with the 100uF times 4.....eheheh......it's not a huge capacitance i would say...but hopefully will carry on good ripple rejection on a 100mA shunt PSU design.
I think that All Fet shunt design is the best choice for preamplifier.
I tried it on and found it far superior to normal series regulators.
With regard to your ONO's experience i am surprised.
You used premium stuff (i was already planning on using same resistors ...actually the naked S102 by texas and auricap caps) and result should have been better.
Conversely,I noticed, you powered it up with batteries.
I think batteries offer a dull sound.
I would have suggested a nice and good PSU to fully evaluate it, but i am sure you tried something else as well.
Compliment for your turntable and your tonearm.
Bang! a sme V.....the best tonearm on the market i would say.
A real reference.
and i notices some that looks like bow technologies CD Player or something very good indeed...plus a Mark Levinson....wow....ehehe
You got better things to evaluate your project that most of the guys here (me included!!!).
Good for you.
Anyways just last thing......I would like to trick the current mirror.
I will use a very high grade voltage reference instead of the regular LED.
More stability better noise performance.
I don't know if you have experience with this and you tried something like this on or not.
in case, if you want to share your experience would be great.
in the meantime thanks a lot for your infos always greeeeaaatly useful.
Stefanoo said:
Not necessarily. Same as capacitors batteries can "sound" very different depending upon capacity, technology and make. alcaline, NiCd, NiMeH, acid and gel batteries all sound different.
Most of my recent posts elswhere on a forum where with regards to PS in digital circuits. It's there that I used BG F cap and it was 1000uF.
I prefer not to put caps in parallel, for some reason it never worked for me, if you need more capacitance, use bigger value.
I used both ONO and VSPS with batteries, 12V, 7.2Ah Panasonic cells, and that didn't work at all. I switched to regulated supplies and it worked better, but I was still "not there"
BTW, for MC step up (Shelter 901) I was using S&B TX103 silver.
I prefer not to put caps in parallel, for some reason it never worked for me, if you need more capacitance, use bigger value.
I used both ONO and VSPS with batteries, 12V, 7.2Ah Panasonic cells, and that didn't work at all. I switched to regulated supplies and it worked better, but I was still "not there"
BTW, for MC step up (Shelter 901) I was using S&B TX103 silver.
when you say that you don't liki to parallel capacitors I assume you refer to ether bypass or more electrolytic in parallel to increase capacitance, but you prefer just one cap.
This makes somehow sense to me since it's better in any case to just have less parts although all the world..or most of it...uses to parallel caps.
I don't know where to get values of blackgate F or other series at a reasonable price.
Apparently PXConn is the best place to go...but the only have limited values.
If you have any suggestion on where to buy these caps i would be glad to consider this other option 🙂
This makes somehow sense to me since it's better in any case to just have less parts although all the world..or most of it...uses to parallel caps.
I don't know where to get values of blackgate F or other series at a reasonable price.
Apparently PXConn is the best place to go...but the only have limited values.
If you have any suggestion on where to buy these caps i would be glad to consider this other option 🙂
a 1000uF at least.
I would need more than 4 so the price of each unit would have to be reasonable.
I saw various price on internet but they weren't all so reasonable 🙂
I would need more than 4 so the price of each unit would have to be reasonable.
I saw various price on internet but they weren't all so reasonable 🙂
you find it now at about $42.
I thought that the price was too high but i guess that it's a very good one, isn't it?
If so, i don't think i can spend $200 for 4X 1000uF, it would be too crazy.
I guess that the BG std will do fine also keeping in mind your observation on the 1000uF F type in comparison to the STD type where the latter one outperforms.
I thought that the price was too high but i guess that it's a very good one, isn't it?
If so, i don't think i can spend $200 for 4X 1000uF, it would be too crazy.
I guess that the BG std will do fine also keeping in mind your observation on the 1000uF F type in comparison to the STD type where the latter one outperforms.
$42 seems like a very good price.
I have those caps, but in phono stage I preferred STD.
F type was discontinued long time ago, it's FK now. I can't say though how well they would work here.
I have those caps, but in phono stage I preferred STD.
F type was discontinued long time ago, it's FK now. I can't say though how well they would work here.
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